M.O. Chossid

personally, I think GOq did nothing wrong, where I am- people are always yapping loudly to their companion on the way home from work, on the local bus. Sometimes, giving their day to the entire detail- and some people can get pretty graphic too, with strong language.

Sometimes, after a long day, no one wants to hear the other person’s day. And wants some quiet time before they arrive home and have to deal with whatever is waiting for them at home.

I think he did it to show how annoying she was the entire time. And GOQ – kol hakavod, I would have done the same thing.

Reposted the halachos you put out to FB, YWN moderator.

THANKS!

I don’t understand why everyone is complaining this year. Yes, it is hot out- but, it’s on a sunday… you are allowed to eat shalosh seudos up to the start of the fast.

Eats lots of melons and grapes.

Water is good, but melon and grapes hold the water inside you longer. Gatorade is the best for AFTER the fast.

Juice is good too. Don’t over eat, but enough not to be hungry in the morning, at shalosh seudos.

Take advantage these fast- as being on sunday, you’re coming from a shabbos of eating good foods. It should be a meaningful fast, and not your typical sunday chores- even if you’re not fasting.

Don’t do too many stressful activities either.

Try to forget about all your troubles for one moment.

Take a step at a time. Try to concentrate in answering AMENS with more Kavanah, for instance. Then go from there.

O’Fishel is THEEEEE best caterer on the East Coast. My opinion! And least expensive.

The fact was he wanted a seat near his elderly parents who needed to be cared for. JetBlue did NOT realize this, and I think it was a case of terrible customer service. The fact that the man insisted that he did not want to sit next to a woman, would be the chillul Hashem.

My personal opinion is that we don’t live in our own world where (even though we may think it) everything is created for us.

That is the biggest problem here. We are strangers in a strange land. We have to abide by THEIR rules. Dinah demalchusah dinah. especially after 9/11 where everything got much stricter. Who is this guy that he can just pick a seat on the plane without the consent of the attendants? He is not in charge.

A case of terrible customer service on JetBlue which they felt the person was causing too much trouble. But then again, it takes a lot for someone to cause so much trouble – to get thrown off the plane. This case is wrong on both accounts.

First of all, from what I read – do not assume he is even thinking about marijuana-

So, I’m going to clarify you some things I read.

He was there on shabbos- so, he still comes home.

If he sleeps all day- thats normal, most guys do at that age!

Especially in the summer.

I may just pop in time to time- but it seems there is more to it every time. I know it’s hard.

But, just let me say this- which I mentioned before. Try not to let it take control over you. Thats the worst you can do.

If your son sees his comments and actions are causing you stress, and he indeed wants something out of it. Maybe he just needs more loving attention.

As mentioned before by someone else- give him love, no matter what the situation is.

One more thing to clarify. DO you live in America or in Israel?

Now it is unclear.

Like others have said- seriously, if you must buy from Mcdonald’s and you feel self-conscious about it, go through the drive through, and ask them to put it in your own hotcup. Some places do that, and you actually save money that way too!

Here’s another good question- if on your way to shul, there is a very good coffee shop you enjoy, or say a duncin donuts which is kosher, and you arrange before shabbos the payment and all- are you allowed to enter the store on shabbos and come out with a hot cup of coffee? Provided there is a Eruv in your town.

Although, I still think the situation is a bit extreme.

You also mentioned he steals alcohol and you know he smokes.

Can you please elaborate? -Most yeshiva kids these days almost always are in the mood for a beer.

How about stepping back a moment and giving everyone a CLEAR moment of where the kid is holding? I can’t imagine that none of these great ideas didn’t work?

Does he have access to online? Sometimes a mentor whom he knows has no connection with anyone that he knows is better than having him talk to someone local? Maybe he is afraid to talk to someone from in town?

Just who exactly are his friends? Chevra from another yeshiva- or mamesh street bums? Are they even Jewish?

There are so many outreach programs for Jewish kids who are on drug abuse or alcohol abuse. Also, I liked Z’hava’s idea of sending him to Israel. Especially if thats where he lived most of his life. Perhaps, there he will get better help.

In Israel- there are even more programs to help such teens.

And you don’t have to be in yeshiva. Let him roll it out over time. As i said in the beginning, these things are phases.

It will take maybe a year or two of him acting like he owns the world, but eventually, if there still is time, he will get back to yeshiva, finish and graduate and move on.

If after high school- he can always get his GED and then move on.

Kids don’t stay like this forever. They grow up eventually.

Let time tell. I know it’s hard, but sometimes thats the best you can do. I know many families who have kids who were on drugs, or hanging out with bad friends, and eventually these kids came back, went to a yeshiva in Israel and are doing quite well.

And even got married to a frum girl and is raising a family now.

Sometimes, they become more shtark this way.

I say you should concentrate on making sure your younger son doesn’t follow in his older brother’s footsteps. And even if your son comes home on shabbos in a car with a girl, embrace him and tell him how much you love him, but just keep a eye on him while he is there. Let him know that the house is there open to him, so long he doesn’t do anything drastic. Or steal anything, of course.

Just concentrate on your own family relationship that everyone stays on the same page. And that decisions are made with everyone’s approval. And if it involves the other kids, be open to them. Let them know upfront what you are doing. Don’t hide anything. Explain to them this is the situation, but that he is still accepted by everyone and welcomed home.

Perhaps, if you let yur other kids know they will always have a home to come to, no matter what happens- maybe they will forgo the idea of copying their older brother’s activities.

Thats the best advice I can give. Signing off now. Will check later for a response.

please be mochel me if you took it the wrong way. But, maybe you should have outlined it differently.

And, you should always consult with someone professional, you say you have tried everything- but, that he is leaving.

I didn’t mean you were lying. I just am wondering what exactly is the story here. Most teenagers, as I had said go through a phase.

It’s common. And you say- he doesn’t want to go to his yeshiva anymore. Does that mean, he won’t go to any yeshiva, or is he a dropout? I’m not trying to put you on the spot- or speak for anyone else, but a lot of people here have given you some great ideas. I, myself was debating to even get into this discussion.

The more I kept tracking it, the more confusing it got. That is all that I’m saying… and now, it seems to be even worse.

It’s the summer -time, bein hazmanim. See what happens when it gets closer to Elul, and he has to get back to yeshiva, if he still doesn’t want to go back, then you got a problem. Everyone needs some time to chill during bein hazmanim! No one – as I said before- has to wear the yeshiva uniform. Especially outside yeshiva. There are those yeshiva bochurim -even during the zman- when they get home, change into something more comfortable.

I was trying to get a load of the situation, and to see where the kid was holding. you also mentioned your younger son was hanging out with his older brother.

I was just trying to put everything in chronological order to figure this out. Sorry if I was a bit too harsh.

BY Girl- why would someone from Beis Yaakov be so into a rock star anyway?

And Zehava is right- not being charedi isn’t a terrible thing.

Being charedi is a lifestyle. You should be able to CHOOSE it, not have it forced on you.

Not everyone has to wear the black pants/ white shirt. I go to a kollel and everyone is wearing polo shirts and there is a very loud kol torah! They are working fellows who are in the working field, but have chosen not to wear the black pants/ white shirt deal.

There are others who even in the work field still dress yeshivishe.

That’s their choice. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

You want to remain a Jew- then don’t force your son to do anything. At this rate, you got nothing to lose.

The point is for their kids to grow up as a mentch, believe in Hashem and to show the rest of the world what fearing GD is all about.

There is nothing wrong with not being yeshivish’e or going to shul without a hat or a jacket. Other people might call that being a bum, and you’re going to hell if you’re not living the yeshivishe lifestyle. But, I think not.

Not living the yeshiva lifestyle is perfectly NORMAL. And there is nothing wrong with doing your own thing and fearing HASHEM in your own way.

ok, If I’m getting this correct. You said in the beginning he was going away from yiddishkeit. Then, you mentioned he just doesn’t wear tzitzis anymore, and he got rid of the black hat. Now, you say he is being mechalel shabbos. First of all, to stand up for the others, including myself who have given their truthful, heartfelt stories to you, YOUR story seems to change every time I read this thread. Ok, so he wasn’t raised in a less-charedi atmosphere.

And you had mentioned he hadn’t learned all bein hazmanim long.

He’s a teenager – they do that. Just HOW BAD IS THIS SITUATION?

Don’t mean to sound rude, but it sounds like you’re over exaggerating the whole situation a bit. Does he not want to go back to the same yeshiva or does he totally want to be a drop out?

Would having him attend a non-religious high school be better for him? How about a place which helps kids that are going off the derech?

ALL IN ALL – people have different views of what OTD is exactly, and I think you’re pushing the story way over to what it is exactly to hear other opinions.

please delete this thread and start over with the whole story upfront – be truthful about it. Discuss openly what you have already tried with him. And what it is he is exactly doing- to make you think he is going off the derech!

I’m sorry for sounding rude, but your story just doesn’t add up.

Not to mention you’ll be able to watch the birkas kohanim over the internet. Oh wait… you already can. Free flights for olah regel.

Cholov Yisroel/ kosher cruises will bring the first fruits to Eretz Yisroel. Straight from the airport will be a train to the beis hamikdash. You can pre-order your karbon pesach online, via Facebook and other groups. Yeshiva World will take pictures of the menorah lighting from their helicopter view which would be broadcast live all over the world. You can skype with your rabbonim- which many do already. They will implant a chip inside of you to count you. No more half a shekels.

Ok, QUESTION: As far as the rules go on Yeshiva World’s Coffee Room- one isn’t allowed to post a long megillah, so why did this user need to post the entire pamphlet. This by the way, was sent to the cities out of town which weren’t able to make it to the ASIFA.

And yes, I agree with Morah Rach- why are so people talking about the ASIFA on the internet. Those that continue to talk about it, should be banned from the site. We get it already.

It’s just like when the rabbonim banned having a TV in the home. There are those that still do- and even many yeshivish families who have just a “moniter” even though the rabbonim assured it. So, those that are still on the internet talking about the asifa, are just wasting everyone’s time, and let them do their thing. It’s the same as having a TV in the home.

Those that will listen, will do what they think is proper.

In some cases, where it is a yeshivish crowd, and people talk about it like those that do it- are against yiddishkeit and are going to gihenom, personally, speak for yourselves. You can’t estimate why someone else does something.

If something is wrong, go to a therapist to seek help.

The only thing you should be saying about the internet, is that do not think you are immune to the yetzer horas that lurk on the net. To say that one should completely ban the Internet and to bring stories which have only those that bring out the bad, isn’t something I believe the rabbonim were just mentioning.

The calling of the asifa shouldn’t have been about banning the internet, which no matter what one says- that was the message. It should have been- FOLKS, BEWARE OF THE TZAR IT CAN CAUSE YOU, SHAMOR ES NAFSHOSEICHEM. Although, some of the messages they brought out were a bit extreme. To say that you can’t do anything, just lock yourself up in a room with a gemarah and have someone pass you dinner should be your lifestyle from now on…

We shall be Rabban Shimon Bar Yochai. It’s just not possible to live otherwise. In fact, wasn’t it Rabban Shimon Bar Yochai who came out and killed the first person he saw who wasn’t learning? So, Hashem told him to go back in the cave. The second time he came out he saw someone bringing two branches from the willow tree and asked him what they were for- he said- for shabbos b’samim. And even Rabban Shimon Bar Yochai saw the good in something which could have been used for the bad.

He realized that you can work in the world to use for service to Hashem.

If someone who owns a Porsche and has season tickets to their local basketball team, would they also be banned from being a shaleiach tzibur?

And for a answer to the second son, don’t push anything onto him either. The trick is, DONOT push anything onto either of him.

Ever heard of the phrase- trying to much-? They will see it, and latch on to it, as you said- they will test you. The second son will see you are pushing him to keep him away from his older brother, and he will resent it even more. Give both kids their space. If you see, your older son is influencing him too much, then is time to perhaps step in, and give a warning. But, if nothing is going wrong, then just let them be. Don’t be the ones to push your agenda on them, because both of them will resent it. Allow your older son to do what he does, but don’t say anything negative to your younger son that he is off the derech, or criticize him in any way. Your younger son will just become angry with you for “disowning” his older brother. Then, both will be lost. Give them space. They need it at this time. Teenage years is a time to try other things, it’s a faze. And if done right, will pass…

As much as I am reading some comments and agree with them, I want to add my own “2 cents”. I am someone from a frum background, who in his later years is having trouble remaining frum.

I believe if one tends to “explore” other options at a young age, he will be more likely to hang out with this chevra for a year or two, and eventually come back. I’ve seen it happen on many occasions, and they are doing quite well in the yeshiva world.

I, on the other hand, is struggling later in my 30’s as if I would have done so in my earlier years – perhaps by now, I would have been “choizer” already.

What I’m trying to say is, he’s a teenager. They go through fazes in life. They like to try out things. Being in the Frum world, people think that if they hang out with a bum crowd – automatically, they are going OFF THE DERECH. Its not so, they are just in a teenage faze. If we would look around at our goyishe partners in our lives, we would see it happens to their children too- just on a different, perhaps higher scale.

Drugs abuse, alcohol, parties… etc. When we see our kids (who are in FRUM YESHIVISHE high schools) we don’t think to expect our kids to do something like that. And even if something does happen- on a much lower scale, we tend to go berserk and chas v’shalom, the kid should even be thinking about doing those things. I say- the younger one experiences this, the quicker he will get “back on track”… if you push him to do something he doesn’t want to do- and tries to please you all the time, then there may be more consequences later on his life, when it may be too “late”.

Let him try out his latest fad, hang out with this chevra who you claim is “going off the derech”… and he will come to his senses quicker than you think. And just relax, accept him… help him. Perhaps tell him, there are some groups of guys hanging out in such and such a place (NCSY, etc) and let him experience different folks that way in a much better settings. NCSY is very good at what they do, and they provide a atmosphere which allows the teen to feel he is not alone, and that there are others like him in this situation, yet a steadfast jewish. And it also comes up with well-trained yeshivish chevra who can keep him on track.