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Never met any.
“Do we also need to “respect” Joe Stalin (or at least that he made decisions, if not the decisions made)? Or Bernie Madoff?”
apushatayid: “Are you trying to reach out to them and help them?”
So you are saying you only need to “respect” those you are reaching out too. That is different that what I first understood you to be saying.
“I just have a hard time believing “shaigetz get back in the beis medrash”
Some frei people are not open to approach due to intense religious hatred or other reasons.
Do we also need to “respect” Joe Stalin (or at least that he made decisions, if not the decisions made)? Or Bernie Madoff?
I thought he meant Albert Pierrepoint’s old gig.
Whatever might or might not be wrong with trying to have “too many” Chumros, it isn’t 1/1000th as bad as dressing like a prutza.
How can ladies dance in front of male photographers (and waiters) in the woman’s section at a chasanah??? (And how can those males be there and look??) The women are not allowed to dance in front of men who are there looking.
And how is it tznius to take videos of ladies dancing at a wedding that the Chosson (and other male family members) will be viewing???
“Al tarbeh sicha does NOT refer to one’s own wife, but with other women.”
HUH???
Al Tarbeh Sicha Im Ishah Beishtechu Omri, Kal Vachomer be’eshes chaveroi.
moshe makes a good point that spiritual damager is far worse than any possible physical or emotional damager. so the point that tznius issues should take *at least* as much priority as physical and mental health is a very good and valid point.
We should ask “kids at risk rabbi” for his perspective and vast experience, or read his thoughts on the “Cause For Teens At Risk?” thread.
mdd – I completely agree with you!
Like I said on another thread, we need to be vocal about it and protest.
We should call the store owners to the carpet and request she stop selling pritzus. If we don’t, WE are part of the problem rather than the solution. If no one protests, why will SHE care??
And if she ignores us, perhaps it is time to picket in front of her shop urging customers to shop elsewhere. Print a flyer urging customers to boycott her, and listing nearby competitors, and show it to her before handing them out to potential customers considering entering her store. Allow her to consider the implications and reconsider prior to going through with it.
That will certainly get her attention.
(I’m thinking this might even work with people/families that routinely breach tznius b’rabim — by also picketing in front of their houses after asking them to stop and they ignore it.)
I care. You care. Many others care too.
We need to be vocal about it and protest.
Did you call the store owner to the carpet and request s/he stop it? If not, THAT’S the problem. If no one protests, why will SHE care??
And if she ignores you, perhaps it is time to picket in front of her shop urging customers to shop elsewhere. Print a flyer urging customers to boycott her, and listing nearby competitors, and show it to her before handing them out to potential customers considering entering her store. Allow her to consider the implications and reconsider prior to going through with it.
That will certainly get her attention.
Since the website was upgraded, the new way it links directly to a specific comment — i.e. like when you click on the latest comment under “FRESHNESS” on the main CR page — is very difficult to navigate. This is because it doesn’t let you scroll up the page to see earlier comments on that page.
The old, pre-upgrade, method was much better, where it let you scroll up to see earlier comments on that page.
apushatayid –
If you read again my comment above (the first comment on this page), you will notice I made no mention of Kimchis. In fact, the only mention of Kimchis is in what I quoted — and that statement was “We’re not even asking anyone to be like Kimchis. We are simply talking about basic bare minimum tznius compliance.”
I would like to know what we should do about “frum” girls who repeatedly, and blatantly, go in public in pritzusdika clothing. (e.g. their knees show sometimes, or the clothing is tight, etc.)???
Its a terrible blight on Bnos Yisroel. And it negatively affects not only the individual engaging in this reprehensible behavior, but it is a slap in the face against the klal. And as was mentioned by others previously, one person doing this causes mass aveiros amongst many innocent persons. (Men can’t walk in the street with their eyes closes, so they will at least briefly see her.)
Should we ostracize these public repeated blatant overt careless arrogant conceited aggressive sinners??? Publicly humiliate them??? And I don’t mean just the girl, but her father/husband if he tolerates her public behavior too must be penalized. This scourge has been contaminating our streets for too long already. And despite all our Rabbonims many premonitions on this inyan, it still has not been eradicated!
We’re not even asking anyone to be like Kimchis. We are simply talking about basic bare minimum tznius compliance. The pain is unbearable. This open mass sinning is tremendously hurting us all!
i believe they should be given a warning privately. if they don’t change their behavior, they should then be put into cheirim.
I agree. Wearing pritzus is worse than eating treif. Eating treif you are doing an aveira youself, bein adam l’mokom. Wearing pritzus you are doing an aveira yourself – bein adam l’mokom, and causing untold scores of others to sin – bein adam l’chaveiro.
well put.
msseeker, Unfortunately sometimes people engage in leitzonus when they find a mitzvah difficult to keep.
“when I was a bachur, I used to eat quite often by a family. It took me perhaps 8-10 visits to the home before I realized that the Mrs.of the home was not named “Herna” by her parents :)”
apushatayid, come to think of it, my Rov A”H (who is a tzaddik nister from 2 generations ago and was a Rov in Europe before the war) would always say “Hernor” (or something like that) when trying to call his wife upstairs (the Bais Medrash was downstairs and his house upstairs), when there were people around him. He never publicly called her by first name in public. I always assumed “Hernor” was Yiddish for “Hello” (not literally but figuratively; I think it means “hear” literally). Is that what it is?
We have so much to learn from the zekenim of yener dor. We just need to open our eyes, ears, and heart a little bit. (I’m speaking to myself foremost about this.)
Maybe he’s talking about the YWN main site, not the coffee room.
Baruch Hashem everyone is okay!
If someone suggested she leave, the probability is she didn’t sustain damage. Otherwise it would be easily provable she engaged in a hit and run. Either way, if she left she may deny involvement, and it will be a he-said she-said situation. Do you think even if you find her anything constructive will be accomplished?
Do you have any witnesses who can identify her? Who advised her to leave? Is it possible she told that person she doesn’t think she was involved, so he told her to leave? (Although that is doubtful if she stopped in the first place, unless she only stopped because she thought maybe someone was hurt and left when told everyone was okay.)
I’m sure you are 100% sure you are 100% right.
And I’m sure he is 100% sure he is 100% right.
And knowing that, you are still 100% you are right, with every fiber in your body and will write so in the letter.
And reading that, he will still be 100% he is right, with every fiber in his body.
Is everyone okay now?
Was it clear to the other driver she hit you?? You wrote above ‘possibly’ hit you.
Was anyone hurt?? Are you okay?
Did the other driver leave before the ambulance came? Was it a frum person?
What klal yisroel desperately needs is a “Tznius Czar” (similar to how the President appointed a “Drug Czar”.) We need, lhavdil, our own Nancy Reagan who declared war on drugs with the slogan “Just Say No” to Drugs; Like her “War on Drugs”, we need a “War on Pritzus”, with the educational message of “Say No to Pritzus, Yes to Tznius!”
Maybe one of the Gedolim’s Rebbetzin can be serve this vital function.
“SJS *asked a shaila* and got an answer that you didn’t like (i.e. that she could have a different practice than her husband).”
a wife is supposed to follow her husbands minhugim and psak din of her husbands posek. it is ridiculous that if her husbands rov holds carrying in flatbush is mechallel shabbos (which is skillah) that she then carries. a wife cant do what her husbands rov holds is a mdoraisa, even if her pre-marriage rov held differently. once married she goes by the husband. she said she’s mo, so i know they change things to accommodate modern sensibilities, but that doesnt make it right.
lets not make a gemara out of it, LOL! i was simply crying (im not sure decrying is the right word), in general, for the depths our generation has fallen. not asking shailas, practicing halacha differently than and not complying with your husband are just some examples.
i hate titles but regular frum is what people call us.
oy has our generation fallen. and to what depths! and they actually think they have risen…
sjsinnyc… so for your husband it is chillul shabbos but for you it is not?? something doesnt smell right in denmark. didnt you say on another thread you are mo??
it is patently obvious you dont want to ask these two shaila’s we discussed above cause you know (and dont like) what the answers will be.
case closed.
wolfishmusing, i believe faif un means ‘disobey’ in yiddish.
being sameach chosson v’kalla may be necessary. like i said, everything depends on the person, circumstance, and a whole bunch of factors. its hard to answer a theoretical list.
clearheaded, you said “some following their husban’s directive more and some less”. HUH?? I NEVER heard of a so-called “minhug” of following their husband’s directive less. where do you hear of such nonexistent so-called ‘minugim’?? it is not right to make up a ‘minhug’ to justify something that is being done wrong. you really need to ask a shaila and not be afraid to hear what you rov will pasken.
clearheaded… that too is another worthwhile shaila to ask (powerwalking and backyard) so you can ask that at the same time… why do you seem so reluctant to even ask a shaila?? are you perhaps afraid of the answer you might get?? that is sure what it seem as… its apparent you don’t want to ask this shaila cause you know what answer you’ll get and don’t want to hear it… that is a big problem in society today, people know something may be wrong so they don’t even ask a shaila. prove us wrong, and ask this shaila and let us know what you Rov paskened.
wolfishmusings… some things on your list are essentially necessary, and some things are not. i’d rather not break it down for you since 1. its different for everybody and 2. the list of what yes and what no will be endless.
How would that fit into the mishna in Avos that moshe rose quoted???
Taking the children to school, going to shul, buying necessities (not stam shopping-shpatziring outside), and other errands or necessary functions. And even there if it is avoidable is should be avoided. (Maybe for example you can get groceries ordered by phone and delivered; and other examples like that.) Basically when its necessary its okay; when it isn’t necessary it should be avoided where possible.
clearheaded… I suggest you not be afraid to ask your Rov another shaila whether 1. it is appropriate for a woman to ‘air out’ by going to the mall and 2. whether a wife is obligated to listen and follow what her husband tells her.
Please let us know his response to the shaila. You may not like to hear what your Rov tells you, but don’t let that prevent you from even asking.
“being a stay at home mom is very boring for me.”
A woman’s place is at home. Yes, I’ll repeat, a woman’s place is at home. Nothing for us to be ashamed of. The home is our most natural habitat. Doesn’t mean we can’t go out… but we need to be always cognizant that we belong at home.
“Are you going to judge me because I sometimes go to the mall to air ?”
I won’t, but surely everyone will be judged for their actions. I’m sorry that it needs to be said, but girls shouldn’t be going out in public to ‘air’. This is EXACTLY Rambam’s point.
We cannot close our eyes to what’s happening right in front of our noses especially in the summer. To do so is at our, and our children’s great peril. We need to shelter our children from running into these loose situations.
clearheaded… what’s your point in saying that numerous ossurim Rabbonim have made in our current times, that our parents were never restricted of?? are you chas vshalom thinking the Rabbonim Shlita (or zt”l) made things up??? c’v!! Unfortunately many from the parents generation were lax on certain halachas. So the Rabbonim shlita educated then and brought them up to a higher madreiga, where they are now refraining from certain assurim.
For example, once upon a time many or most people in America were not familiar with shatnes. And they would wear shatnes clothhing, without even knowing they were violating halahca. Baruch Hahsem the great, yet little known, anuv and tzaddik Yosef Rosenberg single-handedly made the American oilem aware of the shatnes issue. Before him so many FRUM yidden wore shatnes inadvertently. Now we don’t. This is a good thing.
May the Rabbonim shlita have the koach to continue educating am yisroel and keeping us away from assurim — especially those we do inadvertantly. And our children iy”h will too one day say “this is assur” – our parents may have inadvertantly violated this assur, but b”h today we are educated.
Aishes Chayil, thank you so much for sharing. That beautiful story was so inspiring. I heard it recently, but didn’t hear all the details like this. I am truly inspired to increase our observance of this vital mitzvah. Thank you so much!
The Rambam is 100% correct that women shouldn’t go outside much. No, we should not be prancing around shopping, etc. anytime we feel like it. Ideally we should live within the halachic limitations as Rambam and others define it. Nevertheless in our mixed up society where everything is topsy turvy and everyone thinks they have the RIGHT to do as they wish, and how dare anyone infringe on their RIGHTS… well, if the Rabbonim insisted on them following things K’Halacha, there might be a revolution by those people. They might go completely off the derech. So the Rabbonim don’t crack down even on things that are really kneged halacha, so that they can convince these people to at least keep some of the important stuff.
Society may have gone down hill. That doesn’t mean what is done today by the masses is kosher.
clearheaded: My decision? Not at all. It is the Torah’s decision. As explicitly stated in Bereishis (as someone previously pointed out). And as reiterated by our gedolim, including one godol who I directly quoted in my last comment, including the direct quote of him writing in his Sefer that “The wife is submissive. This is not only Jewish but natural.” that you are disputing. Your issue is with them, not with me. I am merely the messenger, not the author of the message. That is the Torah as explained by our Chachomim.
>>>What about in Bereshis where after eating (or drinking) from the tree of knowledge where it says the woman shall obey her husband?<<<
>>These are curses, not laws. It is saying that unfortunately the world will run its course that way, not that anyone is obligated to act that way. Would you suggest that the halacha says a woman must have pain in childbirth and may not take a painkiller? Because it says that there too.<<
This is the natural way (wife obeying husband) of the world, as defined by the Torah. Our gedolim have always taught us as such, and as pointed out it is written right in the Torah. Halacha or not, it is the natural order of the world. As Rav Miller said “the wife is submissive. This is not only Jewish but natural. There can be no harmony when there are two commanders. Without this indispensable condition the home is disordered.”
This is nothing for us to be ashamed or apologetic about.
>>What’s a difference who should listen and obey whom…<<
The Torah is the difference. And the natural order of the world.
>>One thing I can guarantee you, I nor any frum woman will wash their husbands feet.<<
Please speak for yourself. Some of us take halacha seriously.