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Nope.
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No m.
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Sorry, AYC… Missed it. And nope. No O;)
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No a.
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Isn’t that the point?;)
Sorry, no i.
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Okay, I’ll start with a new word:
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“Or just stop playing G-d.”
Yeah. And while you’re at it, stop playing other personalities too.
“who are they really? are they people?”
They’re the bold letterings under some posts.
“rabbiam ,principales and teachers think is going to happen if they kick a kid out of school ? Do they think the student will change ? THE ANSWER IS NO !!”
Well, the world doesn’t revolve around one student. If 25 kids’ matzav in Yiddishkeit is at risk, then yes, the menahel should take action. If you don’t care about yourself, and you hang around with a crowd that you know don’t really like you, why do you expect others to care so much about you?
WIY: I am humbled by your amazingly strong character and your urge to do what’s right. B”H, I come from a very frum home where TV and movies are assur, so my nisayon is probably not as great as yours (although my yetzer hara doesn’t either sleep), but I truly admire your strength. Keep it up, and hatzlacha rabba.
Well, aries, we wouldn’t be discussing this again if you wouldn’t bring it up time and again. I heard your point. But I think it’s time you hear my point. TV and movies ARE NOT equivelent to a FILTERED internet. Again: FILTERED internet does NOT contain as much schmutz as does TV and movies.
NOW, with that out of the way, I’d like to address your other point. You’re right about the fact that most Rabbonim are against the internet. So are they against subways. And against roaming the streets in Manhattan. But, unfortunately, we need parnassa. Some of us must ride the subway to their workplace. Others work on 47th street. And some (including myself) do need the internet for parnassa.
Nevertheless, we are still Yidden. Our Torah is still with us. We have Yirash Shomayim and Shmiras Einayim. Is it easy? No. But whoever said being frum is easy? Is it lechatchila? Of course not. Had it been possible, I wouldn’ve thrown out my computer. But we have to be realistic. Yes, I must have internet. But I don’t go on facebook, twitter etc. My filter has a whitelist – which means MOST of the internet is blocked besides for the sites I asked for and were approved. They also keep track on what I do.
So, yes, the internet is bad and in a way worse than TV. But a person with Yiras shomayim who has a FILTERED internet is NOT the same as somebody who owns a TV and watches movies for entertainment.
Y’know, it’s so easy owning a TV and watching movies. It’s so much more convenient to sit back and say, “Well, YOUR rabbonim said it’s assur to be on the internet, so we’re equal.” Well, I don’t watch TV or movies FOR A REASON. NOT because it’s easier or enjoyable. If you could own a filtered TV that would only broadcast frum shows, we’d be equal.
Mod, did you drink too much at Goq’s Birthday party?
Nu? Mods, it’s time you say who the two are. Let the debate begin! Okay guys… Everybody otta here!
Thanks WIY.
Popa, I suggest you learn some mussar and halacha before posting something like this.
To answer your second post:
1- Nobody ever said romance is treif.
2- If you respect your spouse, the kids see it and understand that you love them.
A- There are halachos regarding this issue which I’m sure you’re aware of.
B- Listening to these songs won’t increase your love toward your spouse.
So what are you trying to do? Get us all excited and worked up?
This, my friend, is what we call a “troll”.
“This is not a troll thread.”
Mmmm…Hard to believe.
Sender Av: You got me rolling!
Poppa, do you have a job? Kids? Do yourself a favor, and do something productive with your time instead of getting people riled up and upset.
(BTW, is this one of the occasions when you’re WAY over?)
I’d suggest you first ask Daas Torah. Hatzlacha.
I listened to Rav Fischel Shechter shlit”a discussing this issue (on the chazak hotline). He pointed out that the mere fact that everything was so “incidental” and happened the exact moment it was supposed to happen, goes to show that Hashem is the One Who’s running the show. And once we know that, we feel secure. Although we don’t understand WHY He did it, we know that Hashem’s our Father and does everything for our good. And since it’s so evident that He’s the One Who did it all we can rest assured that it’s for our good only.
Keep in mind that you’re not in control. You were forced into a situation which you did not choose. Things will just have to be imperfect for the time being.
Try enjoying your “forced vacation”. Relax, read, keep a diary, write to your grandparents, friends etc., do a needlepoint, listen to music, talk to a friend etc.
Good luck.
Pretty please with chocolate on top.
kilo: Huh?
“Belief’s a funny thing. You can’t just believe something on order. You really have to be convinced of it to believe it.”
Yeah. For example, it’t very difficult for me to believe that you believe that you’re an apikores.
???? ??? ???? ???? ???????, ???? —-(???? ??????????), ????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ????????? ? ????. ????…??? ? ???????? ?????? ????????, ????? ?????? ??? ????, ???? ??????? ????????? ? ????.
Beautiful song!
msseker: lol!
Heshy: I admire you for every song you don’t listen to. It’s extremely difficult to give up something as catchy and fun. Perhaps you can allocate a specific time to which you will not listen to goyish music. Slowly, you can lengthen the timing.
Hatzlacha Rabba.
Basket Of Radishes: You sure you’re on the right site?
The issue isn’t tznius at all. It is just chikus hagoy.
IMHO, there are far more important tznius issues to discuss. Tight, fitted, flashy clothing for instance.
Goq: There is a BIG chance your invitation got lost in the mail. I don’t think you should trust your intuition. Simply because it makes you feel bad. I used to make assumptions about others’ thoughts, wrongdoings etc. and it got me nowhere. It just got me to be miserable and upset.
I’d suggest you ask someone close to you to ask the Rosh Yeshiva what the matter is.
Life is full of disappointments. If you always feel victimized you will be the victim. But if you get up straight and say to yourself, “Hey, s/he won’t ruin my day. I will not go around upset because of what s/he did. I think I’m an ok person and if they disagree, it’s their problem.”
Hatzlacha Rabba.
That’s interesting. I voted in the afternoon and didn’t witness or experience anything similar. Did you?
Do you like him? Do you like his language, midos, character, actions? If the answer is yes, I don’t think you’ve got anything to worry about. (Don’t jump to a decision, of course)
First of all, when you fall in love, you don’t necessarily like the person (you may like their appearance). I think love is blinding (I’ve seen it happen with me). So in a way, you’re lucky to look at it with clarity.
Secondly, do you know him? You may think you do. But it’s nearly impossible to really get to know a person in a few short dates. When you live with someone and get to know their true values, you may end up really loving and respecting them for who they are even if you didn’t have “butterflies” at first.
“The other offshoot has about 1.2 billion and counting.”
And poor and backward and suicidal and…Do you still call them a success?
“One offshoot from Judaism has 2.1 billion followers.”
And 2 out of three of them are leaving the fold.
PBA: Thank you. I’m hoarse already.
(I know I shouldn’t be getting emotionally involved, but it pains me greatly.)
Aries: I usually neither have the patience nor the time to argue in these threads but now you went overboard.
“Mistakes can be corrected and can be forgiven. “
If his parents prefer a heimish yeshiva, they should instill in their kids that this is comletely unacceptable. They should prevent their kids from doing such a “mistake”.
“the punishment does NOT fit the crime”
It’s not a punishment. It’s a natural consenquence. This boy does not belong in a heimish yeshiva. If he’s an A+ student, let him go to a good MO yeshiva and marry someone his level. I don’t want to send my kids to a yeshiva where this is acceptable. If it’s ok for him then change yeshivos.
“No one suffered, no one lost life or limb over it.”
Goodness. Were you born yesterday? Let’s assume that this innocent discussion will indeed end here, and the boy will not become friendly or flirt with her. The yeshiva would TURN A BLIND EYE to his actions and THAT is a BIG statement. Have you considered his classmates who aren’t as “good” as him and would follow his example? How about the “cool guys” who’d take this one step further? The Achrayus is tremendous. And I don’t think you can take that on your shoulders.
“Maybe if more people would pull their heads out of the sand and out of the shmutz, kids would have more healthy lives and there would be a lot less OTD kids we have to deal with”
Proof please?
Rebbitzen Tzippora Heller states that the frummer you are, the LESS OTDers there are. And if we’ll do as you say we’ll all turn into what MO has become? No, thanks.
The MO posters constantly complain about the trend towards the right. There’s a reason for it: don’t argue with success.
Wow, aries. It’s amazing how you base your opinion on a conversation you assumed took place. How do you know the nitty gritty of this story? How do you know for certain he’s a “good boy” (no, I DON’T mean his scholastic achievements)?
Health: Very well said. (It’s nice to see some clarity once in a while on here..;))
If parents enroll their kids in a Yeshiva where it’s unacceptable to converse with girls and one boy violates the rule, then yes, I think they should expell him. He simply doesn’t fit the bill for this Yeshiva. Perhaps MO will do, as Health suggested.
A chiloni sabra had an aliya on his father’s yahrtzeit. The gabbai asked him “Nu, Moshe ben?”
He proudly answered “shloshim”.
Mods? I’m afraid it’s time you change Papa’s subtitle again.
Mikehall: First of all, I didn’t mean to actually compare MO with Conservative (I thought that was obvious). My point was, that there’s no such thing as it’s “muttar for us”. We all have the same Torah. If a Rabbi doesn’t pasken precisely as the Torah does, than perhaps it’s time to look for another one. (Yes, I KNOW there was no TV back then. You know what I mean.)
Secondly, as I pointed out before, we are using internet “Bleis breira” – there’s no choice! After all, I’ve got a family to feed etc. You almost can’t run a business nowadays without Internet. Would this be my first choice? Of course not. But just like we sometimes have to visit Manhattan for a Dr’s appointment, or take a subway, we sometimes have to use internet. And we must learn to deal with it. Unfortunately, the world is terribly dirty and one must work on shmiras einayim.
And last, but not least: I never judged. All I said was that you shouldn’t make it sound as if you’re doing the perfectly right thing. After all, it’s easier to have a TV around than to keep it out. It’s so much harder to keep shmiras einayim. But Yiddishkeit isn’t about taking the easy way out. Don’t pretend it’s “Eilu veilu”.
Daas Yochid: Thank you. I’m also waiting for the anonymous posek reveal his identity.
DY: Thanks for your intelligent and honest posts.
SJS: The Internet is horrible. BUT, similarily to DY, I have a filter and use it for my business. AND I have a password. TV is solely for entertainment. So I don’t exactly think the two are interchangeable. If you want to own a TV, then so be it. But don’t go around saying it’s ok.
As for your Rabbi who permits you to own one… Well, there are Conservative Rabbis who “allow” to drive on shabbos. So for “them” it’s muttar.
So why don’t you join? Lost your interest?
BTW, I wonder if there is in fact anything wrong with it. Did you ask a sheila? (You’d rather not say you’re on the internet,eh?;))
Reb Yontel, didn’t you find a heter to do this? This place has become BORING. (Sorry, no offense DZ and lkwdfellow – you really tried;)) Do you truly think it’s a zilzul? Hope to see you around.
This question is very old. “Tzaddik vera lo rasha vetov lo”. Unfortunately, we are now in galus, and the truth may not surface.
Nevertheless, nobody can ever hide from Hashem Who knows and sees the emes. This, as well as many unanswered questions will be clarified with the coming of Moshiach.
Beis Dimyun of Chelm is one great school for unborn daughters.
I respect you for that. I don’t stop by that often, but I think I’ll stop posting there now that you mentioned it. (Funny I never thought of it myself.)
BTW, did you see my post about “boi dein temple shira”?
Sorry, it got all messed up with the Yiddish typing. I tried to say that it’s “bekaruv” in middle German, and it’s a translation of “Adir Hu.. Yivneh Beisoi…”
?’ ?????: ??????? ??? ??? middle German “?????”. (?? ??? ????????????? ??? ???? ???..”???? ???? ?????”.)
?’ ?????: ? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ??????! ??? ??? ???? ???? ????????”? ???”? ??? ??????????. ?? ???? ??? ??? ???????? ??
???? ??? ???????
?? ??? ??”? ????
???? ????? ??? ????
??? ?????? ????? ???? ?????????
?????? ??? ??? ? ????
?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???????
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? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ??? ???? ???
eclipe: Please don’t jump to conclusions. It’s very hard for someone who’s not very familiar with abuse to actually believe there’s such a concept. I know of a case similar to the one Aries described, but B”H, the kids ended up returning to the mother (thanks to one of her innocent caring daughters). If I wouldn’t have heard of that case, it would’ve been very difficult for me to believe that kids can fall for the abuser and reject the innocent.
Hatzlacha Rabba, and may Hashem reveal the truth very soon. Good Shabbos and Good Yom Tov.