Toi, you say I hate to take on opinions on anything. That is false. My OPINION is that usually, there is no single correct answer, and that everyone should do what is best for them. That is an opinion, because clearly, you disagree with it. This is true in Judaism about many, many things. Why do you think there are so many sects of Jews, so many different minhagim, etc.? You think that only one of them is correct, and everyone else is wrong? Clearly, you do. Well, I think that believing that is foolish, immature, and frankly, is an embarrassment to Judaism.

Now, there are many times in the CR when I will specifically not state my opinion on things, and keep quiet, either because the person won’t listen anyway, or because I don’t wish to make someone feel bad. I don’t think this is a sign of weakness. I think it is a sign of maturity. There. That’s another opinion. If you’d like to know of some opinions that I have that I never bring up here, here they are: In my OPINION, the most important thing for a Jew to do is be respectful of others, and especially of those that you may disagree with. Derech eretz is the most important thing. In my opinion, the way you treat people here that you disagree with is so abhorrent, so despicable, that I think your Torah learning is worth absolutely nothing. And that goes to anyone who considers himself a “talmud chacham” yet treats others with disrespect. Just look at what you did: A few posts up, I gave you blessing for success and have joy from your children. And what did you do? Not only did you not thank me, but you ridiculed me. Is THAT what G-d had in mind for someone who considers himself a Jew doing the right thing? I don’t think so. G-d doesn’t want you to be rude to people. The world hates Jews because of people like you, who consider themselves better than everyone else, are rude to people not like themselves, and think that their way is the ONLY way.

Here’s some other opinions I have: The way some Jews are so judgmental is sickening. I think that a major part of the current “ultra-frum” value system is terrible. Things are priorities that shouldn’t be, such as wearing black and white, blindly following Rabbonim without being able to think for yourself, learning all day, doing anything possible to not have any interaction with the opposite sex. I can go on and on. Those things should not be priorities. THESE should: Treating others with respect, realizing that there isn’t one method that works for everyone, being able to think for yourself.

You don’t even think I follow the Torah’s view on anything. That’s how screwed up you are. At least I, who thinks that many of your priorities are completely wrong, still think that you do try to follow the Torah’s view. That’s because I am not judgmental, I am understanding, mature, open-minded, and most importantly, respectful. I can’t say the same for you, unfortunately. Your perverse, arrogant attitude disappoints me greatly.

As far as disregarding Rabbonim, you need to change your words a little. Maybe I disgregard YOUR Rabbonim. And this is EXACTLY why I can’t stand people who blindly follow their Rabbonim and consider their word to be G-d’s, and everyone else is wrong. See how shallow that is? There are tons of Rabbonim out there, and from them, you’ll hear an infinite amount of opinions on anything. And then you’ll have people who say, “well, this one is one of the ‘Gedolim’, so certaintly he’s more correct than others”. Well guess what: He may be a “gadol” to you, whereas to someone else, another Rav, who argues, may be a “gadol” to him, and you’re back to square one. Here’s who I listen to: My mom. When my childhood got torn apart, and I was in desperate need of support and guidance, NO Rabbi ever gave me any. All I had was my mom. And she is, in my opinion, one of the biggest Tzadeikes’s in the world. She also happens to know more Torah than most people, including Rabbaim, that I know. She is an example of how to live the way G-d wants. And I try to emulate her.

Now, after I’ve said all this, I want you say “Thank you for finally stating your opinions”, instead of just getting all defensive and spouting some rude, immature response.

Logician, no, I don’t think saying “It’s fine for him” is a sign of weak intellect. I think it is a sign of maturity. Because I am able to understand the other side, and realize that perhaps his method is good for him. Not allowing yourself to see the other side because you are so blinded by your own beliefs is not intellect, it’s arrogance and immaturity.

And “Different things work for different people” is not at all the same as not having any view. It is having an OPEN view as opposed to a closed view. I DO have my opinion, and I realize you have yours, and I will not force mine onto you or consider yours “wrong” because I realize that for you, it is possible that your opinion and view works.

I don’t feel the need to respond to any of you in this matter anymore, and I feel that anything more that I say won’t change a thing, and that’s partially because someone who has such a close-minded view of everything, who considers himself to be correct and others wrong, can never grow. He can never think, “well, you know what, maybe he has a point.” “Maybe I should think about that”.

Take a look at the following threads I’ve started where I state some of my OPINIONS and good things to keep in mind.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-importance-of-listening

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/being-perceptive-its-amazing

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/apologizing-its-wonderful

Now, I want you see who has replied to my threads. They are mostly people who are ALREADY wonderful in those areas. Why? Because they ALLOW themselves to grow, and they’ve become greater. The people that I WANTED to have read my threads probably haven’t read them, and even if they did, didn’t care to respond because they refuse to believe that they can grow in these things.

Logician, I’m not sure what you mean.. but it sounds interesting. So how does “vehemently disagreeing” not mean “to each their own”? Can’t I vehemently disagree with you about something, but still understand that there are, as OneOfMany said, different strokes for different folks?

OneOfMany, exactly.

Toi, as I said earlier, I understand your view, and if it works for your children, that’s wonderful. So we may have different parenting styles, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I think we have reached a point where we understand where we disagree, and nothing more will change anything. Wishing you much success, and may you receive much joy from your children.

Stern is a wonderful school for the right types of girls. YU is a wonderful school for the right types of guys. I know guys and girls in both schools and they are some of the most pleasant, smart, G-d fearing people I know. If you don’t agree with their values, then go somewhere else. Don’t put it down. I personally don’t agree with many yeshivos’ values. That doesn’t mean I have a right to mock them or degrade them in any way.

Toi, good deduction. While letting children do whatever they want and hope they learn from their mistakes is clearly NOT what I had in mind, nor do I think is it a good thing to do, I do think that allowing them to make their own choices, in moderation, and letting them make mistakes (that wouldn’t scar them in any major way, obviously) is a good way for them to learn about life lessons, and the world. Someone who has made a mistake, learned from it, and corrected it, is generally, in my opinion, better off than someone who has never made the mistake at all. This is because the person who has never made the mistake may not fully understand the parameters involved in whatever choice it may entail, and therefore, when the person is bombarded with the choice in the future, he may not know how to correctly deal with it. Someone who has familiarity with the possible effects of the choice will be able to discern the best possible choice because of past experiences.

big deal, I completely understand your viewpoint, and it is a valid method of parenting. Different styles work for different people. Some would prefer not risking their child’s innocence for them to be more open to the world, and others would prefer showing them how to deal with the world and possibly letting them learn from their experiences, and even mistakes. You are right, there is much to said on this topic, and I think lots of good things were already said. Thank you for this discussion, and thanks to OneOfMany as well.

blabla, I’m sorry you had a hard day. Your poem is beautifully written. SaysMe’s words of encouragement are really lovely. I just would like to point out that you began each phrase with the word “Sometimes”. I think that shows that these seemingly negative and unfortunate things do happen sometimes. But, there are other times when we see hope, happiness, and positiveness, and we should try our best to hang on to those times the most, and hope that those times can make the negative times less stressful and less hurtful. Wishing you a better day today, and know that we all believe in you, and are thinking of you.

big deal, I understand where you are coming from. I actually do not feel the need to expose our children to the internet so much. I just think that they WILL get exposed to it at some point, and when that happens, w’d better hope it is from the right sources, and parents would be a right source (hopefully).

Hmm, interesting questions. I’d say that chances are, a child of 12 or 15 would probably not have the maturity or responsibility required to handle taking care of a baby or being committed to and being in a genuine relationship. But it is definitely possible for them to have that maturity if they are educated in it, are committed to it, and know what it takes to be in it. The same thing would apply to a 13 year old driving. The reason there are age restrictions on things like this is for the majority, because the majority of children may not have what it takes to be a responsible driver until the age of 16 or 18 or whatever it might be. I actually think many youngsters that drive shouldn’t be allowed to because they are very erratic.

Bottom line, if they have the maturity necessary (and granted, such maturity is becoming increasingly difficult to find, because of our society coupled with a lack of good parenting), then I see nothing wrong with it.

big deal, what do you mean when you say a school should ban Facebook? That they should block it on their own computers in the lab, or they should have the authority to not allow students to have access to Facebook even at home? Clearly, there are schools that do it the second way. And if the parents, and students, know of this rule when they enroll, I don’t see too much of a problem with it (aside from my belief that schools shouldn’t have control over things that go on outside of school). But hey, if the parents are okay with it, good for them.

Regarding your opinion that we must leave children their “innocence” as long as possible: While that’s a nice idea in theory, the bottom line is that they will probably discover the internet and social networking before we wish to “unveil” it to them anyway at an age we feel appropriate. And if we don’t inform them of these things first, and show them how to use it properly, they’ll probably learn about it from the wrong sources, and probably not have too much of an idea of how to use it properly. Too early is much better than too late.

And I’m not sure what you mean about “If they get full exposure to the realities of the world”. They most probably WILL be exposed to the realities of the world. And to fill you in a little, using the internet is considered a necessity to most professional jobs today. Facebook can be a valuable tool for networking, reaching clients, and spreading your product. I use it for a few different things, including school and spreading my work around, and it has helped me greatly.

Thanks, BTGuy. I’m definitely working hard, but it’s something I enjoy, so that makes it all worth it.

“Are you davening shacharis or maariv?”

They should be using this time off to help clean, shop, and do anything necessary to assist their families.

Haha! OneOfMany, I agree with that! 🙂

Health, thanks for agreeing.

The Kanoi, I completely understand you. I just think that it’s really not the school’s job to be “parents” of the students who unfortunately aren’t well-parented at home.

OneOfMany, fair enough. I see your viewpoint, and we will just have to disagree. I do agree that schools play an extremely important role in the growth of children. I just think the areas pertaining to living life as a Jew, and instilling a value system, are best left to the parents. That is their turf. A school’s job, foremost, is not that. It is education. Sure, the two overlap in many areas, and it is very important that the parents and schools are on the same page to help the children come out with a solid upbringing. I just think it’s dangerous for schools to get more involved than they should, the same way you feel (and rightly so) that it is dangerous to downplay the role they have.

yiddeshemeidle, I understand your point, but fashion goes in cycles. So it’s not completely accurate to really say that in 20 years, it will be worse than it is now, because it’s entirely possible that in 20 years, fashion will be the way it was in the 1950’s; or any era, for that matter.

Count me in. Wolf is wonderful.

Haha, thanks BTGuy! I can really go on and on about this. (I’m studying industrial design.)

I don’t think schools should have authority over what their students do outside of school. That is their parents’ responsibility.

proudbyer, to answer your first question, I think it’s mostly a psychological attraction coupled with intense peer pressure. In regard to your second question, it is unfortunate, but some people like to judge and draw possibly false conclusions simply from another’s outward appearance.

BTGuy, in regard to your questions: Yes, a large portion of a design’s success is due to its intrinsic appeal, but a large chunk of it is from marketing. People will always be drawn to a product that is marketed well, and the more people drawn to it, the more “fashionable” it becomes, until it reaches a state of being considered “common”. At that point, it may no longer be considered fashionable, because fashion goes hand in hand with new, fresh, and unique.

Regarding cars, the newest models seem to have a “modern” edge over the older models, but usually, in reality, they don’t. That can also be attributed to marketing schemes. There isn’t that much that makes 2012 model any more “modern” than a 2010 or 2011 model, on the outside. Although, modernity is a term that changes meaning based on the individual. Take a look at the first “streamlined” cars of the 1930’s. Those were definitely sleeker than anything seen before, and possibly look more “modern” than cars even of today. So what is it that makes today’s cars seem so modern? Marketing. Advertisements. Things that make the consumer have a psychological change.

Fashion, in general, goes in cycles. Something is brought to the market, becomes fashionable, after a while it becomes old, and something “new” replaces it. But that which is now “old” may come back into fashion a few years down the road. Many of today’s fashionable products and cars are styled after items of the 1960’s and 70’s. And in 30 years, it is possible that things that were “cool” in the 90’s would be considered “cool” again. It is all due to the public’s reaction of the marketing. The main principle designers need to keep in mind is that people like new and unique things, but won’t jump into anything TOO outrageous. So there’s a balance required. This is called the MAYA principle (Most Advanced Yet Acceptable).

I agree with Goq’s point. It isn’t our job to judge what others do. But while we’re on the subject, I’d like the dancing intro by my wedding to be Enter Sandman.

Think first, no problem.

No One Mourns, wishing you continued success in your schooling. Take it one step at a time! How many years is your grad program?

Hope everyone else here is doing alright..PE, blabla, kapusta, SaysMe.

Think first, I really wouldn’t consider my posts “wisdom”. But thank you. Also, there is a way to see the previous page: At the end of the URL, where it says right now “page/22”, erase “22” and type in “21”, and click. That will take you to the previous page.

I’ve met with a few people here in real life, and they were wonderful experiences. Interestingly enough, I was able to do this even with living hundreds of miles away from the vast majority of members here.