shein, as long as there’s mutual understanding, we’re good.

I think we need to focus first on having inner tznius. Meaning- How to be gentle, dignified, respectful, sensitive, etc. Not to be loud, brash, and arrogant. Once we can attain that, outer tznius will be automatic. I don’t think making a foundation focusing only on outer tznius will work.

After thinking it over, I came up with the following possibility: True, a match is predetermined. And yes, these two people are bound to be together. It is possible that G-d is using the Shadchan as a messenger to bring these people together. Certain people meet through other means, but G-d decided that these particular people will meet through a Shadchan’s match. So a Shadchan is a messenger of G-d who is carrying out the predetermined decree. Does this make sense to anyone?

I feel that my original post was in bad taste. I apologize.

I understand that it is considered a given that a Shadchan gets paid for the work put into making a match, regardless of when the payment should or shouldn’t be made. But I have a nagging issue about the whole thing: If two people, who are meant to be together, are never matched up by a Shadchan, isn’t it still obvious that they’ll meet some other way or at another time? Isn’t G-d in control over these things? What exactly is a Shadchan doing, aside from perhaps making them meet a little earlier, or taking some beginning awkwardness out of their relationship? I also don’t like the general idea of some random person who barely knows me trying to set me up with someone. I don’t care how “good” or “professional” they are.

Anyway, about paying them, since it’s considered a given, one should definitely pay. But I do agree with some of the posters here about stating the rate up front in order to avoid possible confusion or bad feelings.

In my opinion, the qualities that define a “top boy” are the same that define a “top girl”: Knows how to responsible, is caring, sensitive to other people’s needs, giving, tries to always look at the good, and has a strong, positive connection to Judaism.

There are a few possible reasons for this:

1) Jewish composers may think no one will realize if they use tunes from non-Jewish songs.

2) Jewish composers may be influenced by some non-Jewish composers and incorporate some of their favorite tunes into their songs.

3) Some Jewish composers may not actually be talented enough to write their own material.

4) Some Jewish composers may be mostly after the money and use non-Jewish catchy tunes because they know people will like it, and therefore will buy their music.

5) Some Jewish composers are trying to reach out to people used to listening to non-Jewish music by using tunes they may be familiar with, to get them to listen to Jewish music.

There are probably more possibilities that I haven’t listed.

Ah, then forgive me for assuming something I should not have. I am happy you appreciate my point.

RedNails, that is a great attitude. I really don’t like the way a lot of people handle the dating process, be it having lists, or mothers having lists, or asking tons of questions that don’t matter, or stretching truths, or parents making decisions that the child should make, etc. Because ultimately, as you said, G-d is control. Yes, we should do our part, and be proactive about it, but seriously, people, just be sensible.

BusyAsABee, I don’t think there is anything wrong with doing that, aside from what Mod-80 said about hearing damage. I also, when driving in nice weather, will roll down the windows and play music quite loud. I do try to be sensitive to others, though, and lower the volume if at a red light or if I see someone on the phone. Also, in terms of good taste, I think it is subjective to the type of music you are playing, as some posters already said. Some music is meant to be played loud, and some is not. For the record though, I play all my music loud. ( Mostly classic rock, metal, jazz, and classical. I hate rap/ hip-hop.)

Quark2: I’m actually not a girl. I’m curious why you thought I was…

About the muscle car drag racing, it is true that in America, you will rarely see exotic car racing of any form,and everything is muscle cars, because America is the birthplace of the modern muscle car. America thrives on tradition. Which is partly why the American auto industry is practically dead, but that’s a whole separate discussion. (I wrote a paper on it in college.)If you were to go to Europe, and more specifically, Germany and Italy, you would see all types of races, both street and track, are done with European exotics (Porsches, BMW’s, Mercedes’, Lambos, Lotus’, etc..) There’s actually a movement in European cars to try to produce a “muscle” car. So far, the closest thing to it would be the Mercedes CL63 AMG.

I can go on for days talking about cars, but I’ll stop there for now.

“You had a friend from Pluto??”

“Women are from Venus not Pluto”

I honestly think the discussion of where in the solar system female humans come from is much more interesting and helpful than the discussion of whether one can have friends of the opposite gender.

quark2: Sorry, but you seem to have put words in my mouth. You appear to think I said that no car can compare with a Mustang in its price range, when I simply listed PERFORMANCE COUPES that are better, and can sometimes be found as cheap, as the Mustang. There are plenty of new cars I would get for $25,000 before a mustang, but they may not offer the same horsepower as it. But they sure are better made and much more reliable than the Mustang. I would get any brand new Honda, Toyota, or Nissan before a Mustang. (By the way, the Civic type R is just as powerful as the Mustang.) I would also get any VW, Volvo, Subaru, or Hyundai before a Mustang. (By the way, the Golf GTI and the Subaru Impreza WRX both get the same power as a Mustang.) All these cars can be bought new for around $25,000.

quark2, I like your interest! For $25,000, if I wanted something reliable with good performance as well, I would get an Acura RSX, Infiniti G37, Mazda Rx8, or a BMW 3 Series, all over a Mustang. Granted, some of the cars I mentioned would have to be a few years old to be $25,000, but that’s fine with me.

It’s possible that someone who drives a Mustang or Camaro just happens to be into cars, which is not a bad thing. It’s the same as someone who is into clothes, music, or any sort of commodity (Just a bit more expensive). Although, the Mustang is the typical “Look at me, I have a cool car, and I really want a Ferrari but can’t afford it, so I’m stuck with this” car. So maybe you should be a little wary. For the record, I am pretty into cars myself, and I can tell you that a Mustang is just an American muscle car that is complete rubbish (like most American cars). So if I were approached about a prospective shidduch for someone who drives a Mustang, I would ask why he has it over something else. I would not say “no” because of it. That would be shallow.

Oops, almost forgot to say where I am located: Not on the East coast.

I really find it ridiculous that people think if a guy is offering a ride to girl that it somehow will always end up with dating or marriage. Why does that have to be the case? Why can’t a guy give a girl a ride home just for the sake of being a nice person? Do you think every girl I talk to or deal with every day will result in a love affair? Of course not! I don’t think about marriage every time I talk to a woman.

But, if you actually do want to date this girl, I wouldn’t advise asking her out the first time you offer her a ride. That probably wouldn’t go over too well. I would develop a more comfortable relationship first, and then ask her out.

I feel that I should say that this is considered proper in my circles. If it’s not considered proper in yours, then don’t listen to me. I will respect your opinion, however much we may disagree on this issue.

If a girl wants to stay up all night doing anything that will inspire her to be closer to G-d, then she should do it. If a girl wants to sleep, then she should do that.

Perhaps I am the only person who would not agree with you on this subject, for an obvious reason: I design wedding monograms, and they are used on the benchers. For me, having my monogram on a bencher that everyone takes home and sees is very gratifying for me. I feel that my work will be appreciated. And believe me, a lot of time goes into them. Of course, for everyone else, it pretty much means nothing, and that’s why you feel this way. Just know where I’m coming from.

All my favorite songs are instrumentals, so there are no vocals. I have no single favorite song, but I do have between 100 and 300 songs that I think are all wonderful compositions. Mostly stuff under genres between Jazz and Prog Metal, and all between 1960 and 1990.

I also like many songs composed by Abie Rotenberg.

m in israel: The only halacha that has relevance to this is that a man should not walk behind a woman. Anything added on to that (i.e. Opening doors, which is somewhat related to the halacha but definitely can be done in accordance with it) is a stringency. Thus, as I stated in my first post, there is no reason a man should take this upon himself (Not opening a door) before being dedicated to observing all the mitzvos in the torah first. Obviously,for a man to walk behind a woman is wrong, is a halacha, and is NOT a stringency. I hope this clears everything up.

It is important to know that people in different circles do different things, so what some may consider improper, others consider proper. Do what you, and your date, are most comfortable with.

Popa: That is not always the case. But your’e right, my choice of words could have been better. I should not have used the word “However”. I should have used another word to illustrate the idea of delving into a statement further to find its essence and where it applies and where it doesn’t. Perhaps you can help me find a better word. But I think you’ll agree with me that aside from that word, the main points of my post are in accordance with halacha and, in my opinion, the correct method. If others want to disagree with me, fine. That wont change how I feel.

True, a man should not walk behind a woman. However, when this concept gets so warped to point where it interferes with proper manners and respectful behavior, one really has to make a level headed decision and think about what REALLY is important. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a man opening a door for his date. It is proper, considerate, and honorable. So many problems are caused by people who think certain stringencies are more important than anything else. Really, the only time a boy MAYBE shouldn’t open a door for his date is if he has mastered all of Tanach, never speaks Lashon Hara, always judges people favorably, etc. Only THEN might he be able to take this upon himself. For the rest of us: Let’s focus on more important things, first.

Hmm..I know plenty of Chicago girls over 20, and plenty of single guys. Looks like I have found a way to pay for my college tuition.