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WIY, the difference between you and me is that I don’t consider it inappropriate. If the music I was “promoting” had bad messages, lyrics, or content, then I would NOT talk about it. Everything I talked about was perfectly fine. Accept the fact that there are people with different views about things, and everyone is entitled to discuss things openly.
I actually get very frustrated when a thread gets closed because of something like that. It has happened many times already. Cleverjewishpun can back me up on that. I appreciate music, I understand music, and I want to discuss music. And other people here also want to. But if it really annoys people, then fine. I’ll discuss music on other forums, perhaps with non-Jews. That’s the alternative.
adorable- Perhaps not a first date. What about, say, a third date? And for the record, I say things like that on later dates, and the girl appreciates it.
I wouldn’t say “Your’e pretty”. That’s just boorish. No one does that. I would compliment her on something (something she’s wearing, for example, and remark how it bring out the color of her eyes) that would make her FEEL pretty.
I like girls with frizzy hair. And I would make her feel pretty by complimenting her on something.
Feif- The Thing That Should Not Be is a great song, too. What’s your favorite song from RtL? Mine is either Fade to Black (awesome intro) or Creeping Death…because it’s about yitzias mitzrayim!
cleverjewishpun- Justice was an all around amazing album. You can see their talent bursting out of One..but yes, the bass was basically silent. The drums had a weird metallic sound, too. Was the lack of bass due to the rift between James Hetfield and Jason Newsted? Just a thought…
My favorite moment from Justice: “Darkness. Imprisoning Me. All I See. Absolute Horror.”
Indeed, adorable, it has become your job. Perhaps you should be promoted to become a mod…Anyway, have a wonderful shabbos.
I would find it fun to date in the rain..as long as it’s not a torrential downpour.
Mazal tov kylbdnr! Let me know if you need a monogram for the invitation. I make ’em. 🙂
WIY, I am ashamed that Jews would act this way. Thank you for bringing it up. I think it is important for us, especially in public, to be meticulous about proper behavior and manners. People are always watching. And even if people AREN’T watching, it should be no different.
aries, Thank you for saying that! You just spoke what was on my mind after reading some of these posts. My goodness, some guys have a lot of growing up to do. I’m actually somewhat happy now that I have limited suggestions for dates because of my ‘family situation’, because at least I won’t even think about having the upper hand.
And Stamper, really? You don’t know of any husbands that take out the garbage? That’s terrible.
I look forward to helping my wife wash the dishes. I dream about it.
cleverjewishpun, of course I know the solo! I just happened to play the rhythm throughout the song that time. Hero of the Day does have an awesome solo- great song all around. My favorite solo from them is the one in Master of Puppets- the slow solo. It is beautiful. Also love the intro solo to Sanitarium. What’s your favorite album from them? Mine is definitely Ride the Lightning.
I think using a tragedy to promote yourself by capitalizing on people’s emotions is wrong.
Haleivi, yes, violin strings are GDAE. I listed them the wrong way before, my bad. And about the B string on a guitar, it is weird..But I think there are explanations for it. One is- If that string would be a C (Which would flow with the rest of the strings), then the high E would have be an F (5 notes higher), to make it flow. And that would cause major problems, since the low string is an E, and it helps when those two strings are the same note (Unless you are in drop-D).
Zeeskite, thanks.
tracht, I wouldn’t say I’m the ultimate authority on music, but I know enough…
About learning the guitar, I would first ask you this: What type of guitar playing appeals to you? Slow, acoustic strumming? Fast electric rhythm? Playing note by note (lead)? Finger picking?
Once I know what type you want to learn, I can give you techniques and tips that will help make it a lot easier. But for starters, the best free place to learn the basics of guitar playing is Youtube. Personally, when I started playing, I didn’t have access to a computer so I learned from a book: Guitar for Dummies, purchased at Barnes and Noble. It actually helped a lot.
Before you begin learning though, I must say the following: Be aware that many beginners think of giving up. This can be due to lack of patience, hurting fingers, and other things. If you are really serious about it, you must look past this. Your fingers WILL hurt at the beginning. It may be a slow process. But it’s a price worth paying.
Side question: Would you say you have an ear for music? Because that makes things a lot easier.
If you want, you can start a thread (if there isn’t one already) dedicated to guitar tips and techniques. I’d be happy to teach you everything I know.
Zeeskite, I looked up some info about violins, and it said that the strings are tuned- E,A,D,G. That’s the same tuning progression as a guitar (on the upper 4 strings). So, it seems like the transition from guitar to violin wouldn’t be so difficult. I was wondering though about this: The violin is fretless, so how do you know where to place your finger to play the right note? Is that something that comes with experience?
Zees, that’s awesome! I would really love to learn the violin. I’ve played many instruments, and I’ve found the violin to have the most pleasing sound. Perhaps when I have more time, and more money, I’ll get a violin. Do you give lessons?
I broke out the electric guitar and played Enter Sandman, from beginning to end. (Minus the solo.)
Zees, you play the violin?
Goq, I was going to use that one (a different father, specifically), but I then realized that perhaps this was the best thing for me. I may not see it now, but I hope I will eventually.
Here’s the thread it was discussed on: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/commiting-to-two-dates
Thank you all for agreeing with me.
I am bringing up this thread because of the recent discussion about whether a guy in yeshiva should give up a little learning to make the girl he’s dating more comfortable by traveling to her location. On that thread, the argument was mainly focused on derech eretz, and who should give up to who. I don’t want to focus on that now. I want to focus on the relevance that discussion has to this thread.
It is a fact that men are not as sensitive/perceptive to the needs of others as much as women are. I think an average yeshiva student of marriageable age is not as sensitive and perceptive to others’ needs as he should be. There is lack of focus on that in most yeshivos. The point is, though, that he will have to learn how to think of other people’s needs, and this is especially crucial when he begins dating. No girl wants a guy who doesn’t think or care about her needs.
So, just for this alone, I think it is worth it for a yeshiva guy to give up a little learning to travel to the girl’s city if it’ll make her feel more comfortable, because he will have to get used to doing things like that: “Giving up” small things for her benefit, sometimes at an expense. That is what a good husband does. And eventually, he will WANT to do things like this, because he will know how much it means to his wife, and he will get happiness knowing that she is happy because of something HE did for HER. I think it’s more important for a BOY to work on this than a GIRL, because girls generally have this sensitivity/ perception to a greater degree, and perhaps should focus improving in other areas. But this is an area that boys should work on.
And aries, as always, your posts here are informative, well-worded, and correct.
A car designer by day, a guitarist for a heavy metal band by night.
aries, you are already a wise woman.
Obaminator, again, I can see your point of view, and I’m sure there are girls like that. There are also many girls not like that, and they are STILL GREAT GIRLS. You say that it is derech eretz for her to give up a little comfort for his Torah. And that may be true. But it is also derech eretz for HIM to give up a little learning for her comfort. So, as I said, it goes both ways. And since I am a guy, I would want to be the one giving something up for the girl. Making her come to me because I want to learn a little more (and if I’m in Yeshiva, I’m learning all day, anyway) is SELFISH.
You also said that learning shouldn’t be given up for comfort. I agree. But in this scenario, you’re not giving up learning for your own comfort. You’re giving up learning for for SOMEONE ELSE’S comfort. And that is a huge chessed.
Bottom line: I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with you about certain aspects. But I would ALWAYS give something up, as long as it’s not a huge deal, to make the girl I’m dating more comfortable, and my mind will never change.
Obaminator- I can see your point of view, but I believe it goes both ways: Any good guy is more than willing to give up a little learning for her comfort. And if a girl knows that a guy is spending time and a little learning to come to HER for a date so that she will be more comfortable, I think she will appreciate it.
As a side point, I don’t think derech eretz is bound to Torah alone. I think it applies to everything. And making someone feel more comfortable is included.
zahavsdad, my father doesn’t live in New York. He lives in a city where it is possible to ban him from every shul, and everyone knows who he is, and more importantly, what he is.
Obaminator, even if you are right (and I don’t think you are), that is not the point. The point is that HE should be willing to give up some time from his learning to make her more comfortable. Derech eretz kadma latorah.
I greatly respect ba’alei teshuva for their superhuman mesiras nefesh.
aries, I happen to know that he is banned from every Jewish institution in the city, except for one shul where he can daven at, and people are always on the lookout for him. But concerning what goes on in the streets, I don’t know if anyone is watching him then.
And when I said that everyone here should stop personally bashing each other, I wasn’t referring to you. I think you were respectful in your responses (your last one was a bit edgier, though), and I happen to agree with you. Please forgive me if it looked like I was attacking you.
I think it’s more important to make the girl feel comfortable than the guy (generally), and if it will reduce a little of his learning time to make her feel more comfortable, so be it.
anon1m0us, then let’s hope no one hurts your child.
I would like to add to my previous post about my father that although the Rabbis did deal with it fine, it could have been done a lot better. I think he could have been reported to the police earlier than he was, and some guidelines that the Rabbis set up at first are more lax now. So while it WAS taken care of, it could have been done better.
And for G-d’s sake, everyone, stop all the personal bashing. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, say so respectfully. I don’t care how right you think you are. Stop.
shlishi, please don’t use me to promote YOUR agenda. Thank you.
I don’t understand why people make the girl travel to the guy for a first date, regardless of where she lives. I would go to her, because I would want her to feel as comfortable as possible. The same thing goes for a second date: If you know, as popa said, she invested a lot of time and money to see you, the least you can do is make her feel that it was worthwhile.
aries, it is very possible that he is still monitored 24/7. I don’t know for sure because I almost never see him. But I do know that the building he lives in is always monitored. I happen to think the Rabbis’ guidelines fit the situation, and I think they handled it well when it first came out. He was forced to go to therapy, and as you said, it didn’t work, mainly because he refused to see that he had a problem. On a side note, I really don’t like discussing something this personal in a thread that just uses it to fuel an argument, so if you want to discuss my situation with me further (and I would love to, because I almost never talk about it), please let it be in a neutral setting.
aries- I know for sure that he was at the beginning. I don’t know about now, though. (It’s been like 12 years since it came out.) I think he still is, but I can’t say for sure.
tracht, it’s a shame how people can be so negative about things, and try to scare you about things you may have done in the past. I really get upset when people go off on things and say terrible stuff like “You’ll always be miserable, you’re going to burn, you’ll never be happy with your spouse,..” I don’t think that is a good attitude. I think- What’s done is done, and now, use that experience as a way to positively grow. Learn from mistakes and acknowledge them. Don’t hide from them. I’m sure you will be a wonderful wife, and I wish you and your future husband much happiness together.
adorable- Yes, it most definitely is tough, and in my father’s case, it was even more tough because he still pretends that he’s a great father and nothing’s wrong.
Hacham- Yes, some Rabbis do handle it well. But I’m sure that some don’t. I won’t say that the posters here who claim Rabbis don’t handle it well are wrong, because maybe they know of Rabbis that actually handle it incorrectly.
yitayningwut- Really? I was unaware of that. But it still won’t get me to listen to Rap. I also enjoy songs that contain complex time signatures and have random rhythm changes, commonly found in Prog Rock/ Jazz Fusion. Does any Rap have that? I doubt it.
Hacham- They made sure the entire community was notified immediately, and instituted rules that he had, and still has to, abide by, in terms of both public and private places, as well as special guidelines for my own family. I think they dealt with it well.
Your’e welcome, adorable. How’s your class coming along? And any news on the job front?
Aries, you are right, and I despise Rap as well. Partly because of the lyrical material, and partly because of the lack of musical sophistication.
Such a group of (3) Rabbis was created to deal with my father, and to the best of my knowledge, they still are “in practice” to deal with future cases. I don’t know how much experience they have in the areas of abuse and molestation, but they had enough to deal with my father appropriately. I think they also work together with an organization that deals with all sorts of abuse.
happiest- I’s so glad you found people to talk to about it! For me, even though I think I’m fine right now, I would have benefited greatly if I had support and people to talk to earlier on…
Although, my situation is a bit different from yours. But I really do think I’m past it, save for a few details that I can overcome by making a few changes in my life.(Changes that I would make, anyway.)
Sorry if this is confusing..I just don’t really want to spell out all the details.
I’ve typed up many letters/essays in my life (concerning quite a few difficulties) that I’ve never intended to show anyone. Some I no longer have, and some I have but I am actually scared to read. I would sometimes sit down and just type for hours, letting out all my emotions. More recently, though, I’ve conveyed my emotions through writing music, and that, I HAVE shared with people.
Sister Bear, thanks so much! Believe it or not, today is also MY Hebrew birthday, so I would just like to say that everything you mentioned for everyone here should be fulfilled in the most beneficial way and at the most beneficial time. And for you, Hashem should shower you with His kindness and provide for you everything you need, and may this year bring you success, health, and happiness.
I agree with everything Popa said in his original post. Except that I never considered such songs to be “treif” anyway, so I’m not included in the question “Why do WE consider romantic songs to be treif”.
I also think that there is nothing wrong with displaying affection for a spouse in front of your kids. I actually think you should.
WIY- I am actually in my lower 20’s, and I can easily name over 50 bands that have 99% clean material in a wide variety of genres, from Jazz to Heavy Metal. I don’t know if this music is appealing to teenagers right now (I assume Rap/Hip Hop and Pop are the most popular genres for teens, currently), but I enjoy it. And I can also easily name over 50 albums that have absolutely NO vulgar words or inappropriate material.
Concerning another point brought up here, I’m fairly certain that most Rock is much more appropriate than most Rap/Hip Hop.
kylbdnr- There’s plenty of great non-Jewish music that is up-beat and GENERALLY doesn’t have “explicit content” (You have to search around a little, but you’ll be able to find it). Try out Jazz, Classic Rock, Progressive Rock, Jazz Fusion, Instrumental Rock, Instrumental Metal, SOME Hard Rock/Heavy Metal…there’s plenty out there. I can name you many many bands that have close to zero songs with adult themes or offensive words.