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I personally always took Rav Millers point of view on voting
However
two years ago I was at a symposium for a major out of town yeshiva and the hanhala was asked this question. It was formatted in a way similar to “isn’t it an aveirah to vote for democrats bc of their social views?”
three out of 4 roshei yeshiva said they voted democrat especially at the local level. Their reasoning was hakoras hatov. They pointed to several cases were local democrats took up causes that actually saved jewish lives and therefore they voted for these democrats bc of hakoras hatov. Their position was hakaros hatov overrides the social aspects and they had several reasons for this ( I will not mention them bc I don’t want to allow for armchair pundits to argue on roshei yeshiva)
bottom line as I have said bf, there is no wrong answer to this. And more importantly its not worth arguing over. Our vote/hishtadlus can not pick the next president, that outcome is decided by HashemSuqian city, jiangsu province china
I was almost certainly the only one in this city of 4M+ wearing a yarmulka. A Canadian man came over to tell me he “was a member of the tribe”
I also got to daven in a prayer room at Incheon airport south korea with a bunch of muslims
The main wall was very ornate and pointed east. They were bowing east. I wanted to point out to them that technically mecca (and jerusalem) was west, but alas they didnt speak englishAkuperma
Can’t we view english as an evolving language?
Its a fairly nonsensical conglomeration of languages and grammatical exceptions
Is it normal that the words ratio and patio are pronounced so differently?
frankly I think the language should be rewritten for brevity and grammatical simplicity (think new speak from 1984) and if texting accomplishes that , why notAs frum Jews is there any doubt that the election results have already been decided by the RBSO?
And if that is the case what is the point of arguing about this
I don’t get all the animosity created by arguing about politics. Have your opinion, vote anyway you wish ,!it doesn’t make a difference. The president of United States is decided by God.Charlie
You and the wife are welcome to come to us (Flatbush) for RH so you can both attend shul.
I do find this MO psak most peculiar
The gantz Brooklyn / Lakewood black hat velt have been davening together for two plus months (without masks!!) with no deaths. Yet the MO Shuls won’t allow their members to daven like mentschen on the yomim norayim with precautions.
I don’t get itRational
BMG is being forced to close by the state, do you have any proof otherwise? Let’s also keep in mind that it is essentially bein hazmonim.
I am proud to live in Flatbush where the Shuls are open and our learning is keeping the world going. I just walked by the kosher ice cream store that is doing a brisk business. It’s across the street from a shul. I couldn’t imagine the avla of an open ice cream store and a closed shul.
Check out bava kamma 60b . During a plague you stay home (don’t go for ice cream) but that same piece talks about the protection of a shul with a minyan or learning childrenThe flu kills between 20K and 80K a year in America (CDC website)
should we close the schools all flu season?One big issue, as with all unregulated areas (incl vitamins) is knowing what you are getting
There are numerous reports testing products and finding the stated concentrations to be no where the actual contents. The FDA has actually put out several warning letters in this regard.
So if you try it, you need to know that you are dealing with a reputable manufactureSimon
Aruch Hashulchan 53:22
A mitzvah that comes about through machlokes is not a mitzvah
It is not possible to sit down in , and stop traffic without creating tremendous machlokes, thus I don’t see how it can be a mitzvah
I was at plenty of protests in EY, the ones supported by the gedolim. They involved preplanning, the public being made aware and thus able to plan accordingly. Hundreds of thousands showed up
These protests involve handfuls of teenagers who take it upon themselves to cause tremendous tircha dtzibura. The ones being effected are usually fellow yerushalyimites. And for what goal? for what purpose?
Does anyone take such a protest seriously? or does the public just see them as the hooligans they are?(albeit dressed differently then the hooligans we have in our country)Simon
Don’t bow to the revisionist history being put out by peleg and apparently their mouthpiece here BMG
Rav Shteinman did not support these protests, neither did the vast majority of rosh hayeshivos in EY who viewed Rav Shteinmans derech as the proper one
Unfortunately he isn’t around anymoreSyag
You may not read the FJJ
but grandparent involvement in shidduchim has been a discussion as of late
and, you will notice that my examples are all things that started as “outliers” and have become trendsMazel Tov CT!
Iv’e never heard of this “minhag” before, please allow my two cents
Many of those things we love to complain about started with one person
I have a daughter who is waiting to hear whether or not she got into seminary. So many tears will be shed next week when the girls match. Then tears will come from the parents when they get the bills. Many will complain. Whose fault is it that this has become the norm?
When it became the norm for boys to stop calling girls to arrange their own dates whose fault was that?
Simply do what you think is right and refuse to buy into this new mishagas.
I have rich friends that refuse to play the game of full support, and they have made beautiful shidduchim. They help more then their share but they refuse to believe that the other side has a right to say “he’s your problem now”. Don’t play the game, it will just irritate you and it creates precedence for these crazy notions to gain a foothold and eventually be considered the “norm”
Hatzlacha!OP
I Live in an ancient brooklyn house
I am getting about a year per spotlight bulb whether I spend $3 or $8 per bulb
My chandelier bulbs are lasting 5 years thoughPhil
How do your statements change the discussion?
Ultimately this boils down to whether or not the army is a place for frum kids. And it’s not.
If you want to argue it’s a mitzvah and accommodations need to be made, I will argue that’s nonsense.
If you want to argue there is an option called nachal chareidi, I will tell you to google a cross currents article called “nachal charedi – a reality check”
If the army was serious about wanting charedim and respecting their needs/culture they could create an entirely separate division. But what they are really interested in is assimilation.CTRebbe
I also read the article. Let me ask you this, If even a fraction is correct would you advise your son to enlist?
If my son came to me to ask if he should take a job (parnassah, also a mitzvah) and that job involved numerous tznius and ethical issues, I would tell him to run in the other direction.
There was a fascinating article in hamodia two weeks ago. The author had a meeting with an israeli sociologist a few decades ago. This secular israeli was working on a solution for integrating charedim into the work force. He was asked by the author (and I am paraphrasing here), “are you seeking to do it in a way that respects charedi philosiphy? or are you really just trying to get charedim to be more like those israeli’s you consider normal?”
Bottom line; the israeli government has from its inception used the army as a means of “mainstreaming” recruits to be their ideal. and their ideal is a leftist westerner, not a religious “fanatic”. Which frum father would risk that for their children?
If all they really cared about was having more soldiers, they would leave the training to real charedim and not interfere with a charedi wing of the army (as they do consistently)There is nothing new here
Sorry for those that want to hate on Joseph but this statistic is one of many reasons the IDF has been considering going the way of a Volunteer army, similar to Britian and the US.
The argument for a volunteer army
1) Quality over quantity, the recruits want to be there and studies show that the british and us armies got better bc they were able to get more out of their volunteers
2) retention; a country spends a lot training a recruit and they dont want to lose that recruit after 2 years
3) specialization; modern armies are much more specialized and it takes longer to train a good soldier
4) stop all the fighting over exemptions
5) the Israel army doesn’t even have the capability of absorbing all potential recruitsthe following comes from wiki (and the footnoted source)
The IDF has reportedly concluded that it will, at some point in the future, have to end conscription in favor of an all-volunteer force. Reasons include growing unpopularity of military service among Israeli youth, a growth in draft-dodging, and budgetary constraints that would prevent the IDF from conscripting all those eligible even if draft-dodging were not an issue. Israel is reportedly studying how the United States and European nations ended conscription and transitioned to all-volunteer forces, for a possible future transition.[15]Reb Eliezer
Read the meforshim on Esther 8:11
we davened and did tshuva first then took up arms and slaughtered the sonei yisroel.
How is this different?
In europe we were not allowed to be armed so we did what we could. In america we have that right, so why should we behave differently then klal yisroel did during the times of tanach?
I do not see how your statements about how the army chose soldiers bears on the discussion. Unless you want to say that the people carrying the guns in the shul should be klei kodesh?Akuperma
And I seriously question how many frum Jews have the sort of training to be able, in a crowded shul, to hit a moving target that is firing back at you, but that’s a different matter.
True
Read the statistics on how the percentage of bullets fired by police (during an armed confrontation) that hit their mark. Its sobering.
But that just shifts the argument toward saying that those that carry bear the responsibility to be well trained and cause no harmREb Eliezer
How do you explain all those parts of tanach were the jewish nation went to war?
It has always been our way that tefillah and hishtadlus go hand in hand
You daven, but when necessary, make preparations for war
Up until a month ago I think this was a different conversation
But after jersey city , monsey and all the other attacks no one can possibly say they don’t understand the hishtadlus of arming themselves. You may not choose it for yourself, but our ancestors would be grabbing their swords right about nowI am divorced and BH happily remarried.
I have counseled many people in these matters.
But, and this might sound harsh, I wouldn’t offer you advice.
Divorce is always a tragedy. But to compound the problem by making it “contested” is evil.
Now I might be mistaken and the conflict may be from your wife and you have no control over that. If that is the case then I apologize. However if you are planning to fight I would remind you that though it is permitted to give your wife a get , machlokes is assur. And the damage it does to the kids is unconscionable.
I would strongly advise divorce mediation.
Fighting over money will result in money from which you will see no mazel.
I didn’t fight, and neither did my current wife with her ex, and we have both seen much bracha and Mazel together.
Good luck.This entire thread is based upon a presumption of which nobody could actually seem to answer with any degree of knowledge. And that is that the sales of this siyum are lagging behind previous siyumim.
Can anyone actually support that statement?
Has anyone spoken to the Agudah and heard first hand that they are worried about sales?
Perhaps the reality is the exact opposite, perhaps sales are ahead of the previous siyum. I myself bought tickets despite the fact that I don’t do the daf, and despite the fact that it is the winter even though I didn’t go to the last one.
Frankly I found avigayil’s response to be the only good one. A huge percentage of our brethren do everything last minute . That’s why it’s called being on “Jewish time”Joseph
I am always disappointing when people quote Dina Demalchusa to avoid doing mitzvos
I always wonder what would happen if they outlawed shcita in this country
Would all these who are so makpid on dina dimalchusa suddenly become vegetarians ?
Or would they find a way to give themselves a “heter” to get around that lawTruth
If a person is killed bc he is Jewish he has died al pi kiddush hashem. This discussion came up recently after the Pittsburgh shooting. Those in the temple were supposedly celebrating a “bris” of an adopted boy to a toevah couple.
The question I had was, how can you simultaneously be creating a chillul hashem and kiddush hashem?
But research seems to show that regardless, if you are killed bc you are Jewish you have died al pi kiddush hashem.
Do you not see the tremendous difference between that and choosing to marry a shiksa?
The word holocaust implies dying for the RBSO
It should not be used for assimilation“Holocaust” means a Korban Oleh (google it)
A sacrifice burnt entirely to the RBSO
The word is bestowed on Kedoshim
I refuse to use the word for people that choose to leave the foldI have pointed this out in the past (on a thread involving picking up hitch hikers)
The idea of using a suspected danger to avoid doing a mitzvah is a snare of the yetzer hora
The misalis yesharim addresses it in chapter 9 (i think)
I believe that this thread with all its cheshbonos of reasons why not to do it (Who knows the driver, it might be dangerous, I might need to run to the hospital) fits that chapter to a T.
Bottom line
Acc to M’Y. A danger is defined by a lion on the road in front of you, an actual present danger. Otherwise if
You have a chance to do a mitzvah with a supposed fear competing with the mitzvah you go with the mitzvah“ Why should someone use my driveway or block it because he feels like it?”
זה נהנה וזה לא חסרGH
I’m sure you read my original post where I called the practice of enforcing a child to wait for an older sister to get married imprisonment and evil.
My second post was an attempt to take feelings out of the equation and quote sources.
Here are two more I foundIgros Moshe EH 2:1
case involves two brothers. Rav Moshe says brothers dont wait bc there is a mitzva of p’ru u’revu. Says nothing about a need to ask mechila and says the younger brother has nothing to feel guilty about and should pursue the shidduchMahrsham 3:136 (Rav Scwadron, grandfather of the magid)
Also states doesn’t apply to boys. Brings down that it applies to girls as a din in derech eretz (in other words no one can force her to do this). his specific case involves a 21 and 27 year old girl and says she should pursue the shidduch offered bc who says the older will get married and why should she turn down her chance. My interpretation is that He certainly implies that every girl has a right to use her own judgement.As for the OP who called it a “minhag”
Based on my research . For boys certainly not true. For girls there is a din in derech eretz for waiting a respectful period of time bf actively putting herself out there (to be determined by the girl) but if something good comes up she should pursue it.I’ve spent a couple of days looking into this
I’m sorry to actually bring some facts to the CR but if you are interested here goes.
There is definitely an Inyan in waiting and maybe even for asking mechila/permission from an older sibling.
It seems to stem from a tosfos in kiddushin that says that since Yaakov had no response to Lavan we see Lavan had a point. There are several places in Shulchan Aruch that address the inyan in regards to a case of; a man saying he has married one of two sisters but doesn’t remember which, do both need a get or only the older (since the way of the world is to marry the older first)There is even a couple of modern tshuvos on the matter.
But
No where do I see that this is a minhag (2 years) or that this can (or should) be forced on the younger sibling.
It seems that the younger sib owes this as a courtesy ie derech eretz (and shalom bayis within the family)
To quote one tshuva “use your sechal”Haimy
Can anyone actually prove that this is halachically acceptable?
Preventing someone from getting married and inflicting unnecessary pain sounds kind of evil.
Lets look at the situation
two girls aged 24 and 21 are on the market with the 21 year old getting engaged first. Age 24 feels pain over this. So the theory is prevent age 21 from going out to not “inflict” said pain on 24.
Several problems
1) 24 is only feeling pain because she is jealous and lacks bitachon. A baal middos would be happy for the sister
2) 21 didn’t inflict anything, she simply got engaged. At most you could “blame” Hashem, not the sister
3) Preventing people from getting married sounds a lot like the sins of bnei eli. What gives a parent the right to inflict (and imprison) 21 ?!
The only possible way to do this correctly is with the full agreement of 21, otherwise you are causing harm that you have no right to cause.
A normal parent doesn’t do this to their kids. Unfortunately I know people who did it with disastrous results. I know girls who went behind their parents back and BH got married.
I would never do this to my children and have told them for years that Hashem is in charge of their shiduchim and each will get married when the RBSO wants it to happen.I grew up in a MO neighborhood where some people wore “never again” kippos. They meant through guns and might, and on that basis the OP is correct.
On the rest I disagree on 2 points
1) Politics is Hishtadlus. Just read the new Artscroll Rav Kalmonovitz biography. Or ask the Iranians saved by Rav Neuberger when I was in Ner Yisroel. There are countless examples.
2) At least one of the organizations you mentioned is headed by frum people, and they have put out many fires and saved many jewish lives through the years. (I know first hand stories).Miriamson
I don’t deny the depth of your knowledge but I have an issue with your presentation
Being clean shaven is “modern” but that doesn’t mean it was done b’averah
Just the opposite, numerous esteemed rabbis of the previous generations decided that because clean-shaven was becoming the look of secular scholarship it should be adopted by Yeshivah students (And even rabbunim. I believe the RAMCHAL and other Italian rabbunim were clean shaven)
I know someone who was told (as a bachur) to shave by Rav Wolbe
I know someone who was on the fence and asked Rav Moshe and his response was “when you have a tenth of the yiras shemayim of the (pre war) bochrum we will talk chumros”
This was a philosophy designed by gedolim
Bottom line
The Gemara and SA permit shaving . As long as it’s not done with a razor. To tell me that you hold it’s not permitted Is highly hashkafically questionable.It seems to me that there is a lack of understanding in how psak is binding and Halacha becomes accepted
If someone wants to “cherry pick” a kula it would be understandable to hold him accountable for the chumros as well
If someone goes to his LOR and asks for a psak on a specific Halacha does that somehow bind him to everlasting servitude to all the psakim of his LOR?
Clearly not
Does anyone here believe that the children of gedolim pasken every Halacha according to their father?
Do they not have minds of their own? Are they not allowed to arrive at psak through independent research and understanding of the sugya?
In addition lists are meaningless
Litvaks have always prioritized psak (not everyone was regarded equal) Rav Moshe was the posek Hador
Many LOR asked this question to him. Many adopted his psak and passed it to their kehilosJoseph
Usually you are so makpid on kavod chachomim
Are you truly comparing wearing Shatnes to the use of electric shavers and the psak of the gadol hador?
Everyone here seems to be under the misguided assumption that Rav Moshe was giving a “kula “
He held that b’ikur this was the understanding of the sugia and many agreed with him@miriamson
See Meged Givos Olam (vol. 1, p. 96) where Rav Shurkin writes that he heard that the reason why Rav Moshe zt’l did not want to write this teshuvah permitting shaving machines in Igros Moshe is because while (according to the Igros Moshe) it is technically permitted to shave, the tzurah of a Yid is with a beard. Rav Belsky zt’l stated the same.You still haven’t answered why all pre war bochrim seemed to be clean shaven
As attested to by countless picturesI also need to echo the concerns of others
It is nice for you to throw around the term “Posek Hador” yet I do not find you using that term by Rav Moshe.
It seems to me that you are trying to minimize Rav Moshe in general when he was Universally recognized as the Posek HadorI own a lot of Jewish Biographies, most of the pics of bachurim in pre-war Europe are clean shaven. How is this seen in light of your sources?
As for the field of mental health I think we need to be cautious and acknowledge some problems.
One. The profession is subject to political pressure.
The best current example is gender dysmorphia which until recently was a disease but now considered a choice to change your gender.
Two . Many in the field went in to the field to find themselves (ie they have their own issues). I saw this when I went through my divorce. Being forced to get numerous psychological opinions, with numerous contradictory evaluations and approaches I realized that you can’t teach common sense. Which is why I would take the opinion of a good Rav over a psychologist any day.
Out of my experience during my divorce of meeting with a dozen mental health “experts” there are only TWO from that dozen that I have recommended to others in the same situation.Pulease
“The human brain is not designed to take a life without some form of consequence. There is a reason why the homicide, suicide, divorce and addiction rates among police officers especially, are so high.”Having never been in the situation I obviously can’t speak definitively but I will disagree anyway.
Our Torah mandates numerous times that we are required to kill. It goes so far as requiring citizens to carry out death sentences. Hashem wouldn’t do that if it was harmful.
I will posit that the difference is mental preparation. A frum yid who has years of halachic training and a deep understanding of the idea that we should hate and thus remove evil from the world, is far better prepared to kill when necessary.
In other words if you see war as a mitzvah it shouldn’t create PTSD.Tcanter
I’m assuming you have sources to back up your statement
Bc the Shamir is mentioned numerous times in Gemara and even pirkei avos
Not once did I see any source that said don’t take it literally .
In fact in pirkei avos it’s listed as one of the things created “bein hashoshos” along a list that includes the mun, luchos, and even the Torah
Considering the illustrious list we find listed in ,excuse me for not taking your answer seriously without supporting sourcesAs for this creature being the Shamir , the Shamir is supposed to be very small and faded out of existence
A simple google search shows that in 2017 80,000 died in the us from the flu.
For the 8 years from 2010-2018 the total from influenza stands at 336,000 (CDC website)
Contrast that with 1 death from measles from 2005-2015.Before you get excited,I am pro vax. But I am definitely anti-hysteria.
I think a refocus needs to happen and that is to spend a little more time discussing and preventing a disease that is 336,000 x more likely to kill and a little less time rehashing this subject.Joseph
I would be skeptical and seek daas torah
In fact, I would require the majority of recognized poskim to pasken that He is mashiach before making plans
After all, there have been way to many false messiahs, some of them were even supported by gedolim
Each false messiah caused irreparable damageIt boggels my mind that people on this blog have no problem talking lashon hora on gedolim.
Whether or not you agree with a viewpoint, to say about the lakewood rosh yeshiva that he “hates people” because of a past wrong is unbelievable. (YW also bears responsibility for posting).
Even to assume that you understand the level of torah of these individuals and you can somehow rank them as if they are baseball players is just chutzpah to the max.
You don’t like a mehalich, choose a rebbe with one to your liking.
A word to the wise, Bad mouthing gedolim can have serious consequences to your health.Shuali
From what I can tell you took a bloggers “interpretation “ and applied it to the navominsker. The navominsker talks with very refined speech and after watching his speech all I can say is that his disagreement with Rav Malkiel was done in the most subtle and mentchlich way.
You are an illustration of the problem and the main problem , as it always is throughout our history, is that any machlokes lshem shemayim between gedolim only becomes machlokes once talmidim get involved .The 51% number comes from the aruch laner in his tshivos binyan tzion page 58 in the printing I have a copy of
Whether I use that as a life guideline in crossing the street is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that his opinion is way more authoritative then daas yochidDaas what about doing some research first. Look up the mesilas Yeshorim. Look up some teshuvos. Look up the gemorros. Or just listen to rabbi reisman.
As for looking bf crossing the street I have a friend who has never looked when he crossed the street and he has never been hit ( he is blind) Hashem shomer.#4 and final
That said as I’ve said bf it’s a machlokes. From what I can tell most hold my deterministic view. Personally I think Rav Moshe did from the famous story of him not putting on a seatbelt until asked “to do a yid a favor” ( though I don’t pretend to understand the mind of a gadol). Last week I was listening to Rav Reisman yarchei kallah speeches on sefer Daniel. In the second speech he touches on this idea, whether a person can alter fate. If you are meant to get a bloody nose and Hashem places a person with a temper in front of you. If he fails his test and hits you, that’s one way to get the bloody nose. If he passes his test (great for him) but you still fall and get your bloody nose.
However, there is a shita (he quoted the alshich) that someone can cause you harm that you were not destined for.
According to ( what I believe) is the majority opinion, if these Jews in Pittsburgh were meant to die that day it could have come from a maniac with a gun or a faulty gas connection. In England a place with minimal gun death , death still happens from knives to cancer.
But the alshich agrees with you (from what I can tell)Post 3
This halachic risk assessment is popular now in shiurim on vaccination. Though I believe in them it’s not so clear cut that the person not vaccinating is violating something.There are shitos that define unacceptable risk (risk that causes you to lose shmira, and thus you are doing an avera) these shitos define unacceptable risk as between 10-51%. I have a copy of the teshuva defining risk as 51% but don’t remember the author off hand.
Needless to say the risk of getting shot in Shul or on the street is way below that.Post 2
The idea of “dangerous” is not a personal choice but a halachic one. I call it “ halachic risk assessment “ BF RH I argued on a post about hitchhiking. Many argued against it bc of “ danger”. Over YT I started misilas Yeshorim and found (perek 9 I believe) that the author has a chapter dedicated to mussar for individuals that shirk doing a mitzvah bc of a perceived threat and says that you only have an excuse if there is a clear and present danger, defined as a lion on the road ( a pasuk in mishlei) ie it’s seen and there and likely to happen TO YOU if you follow through. In other words (though he doesn’t quite phrase it this way) a greater then 50% chance of it happening to you.Post #1 (in case it gets long so you know the order )
Erro et all
First I’m going to apologize. In all likelihood this will be my only post. I’m sure everyone has missed me but a RH resolution of mine was to only use the internet for business, and BH this is the first time I’ve looked at Yeshiva world since RH.
But to answer your question in long form and drawing from other related discussions.
You’re comparison from normal life to dangerous situation is not a comparison. We have more hishtadlus for dangerous situations as I’ve pointed out numerous times starting with the gemarrah in chagiga involving the malach hamuves and Mary Magdalena . When you purposely place yourself in a dangerous situation you lose shmira also know as Hashem shomer psaim.Joseph
Let me rephrase
Since rabbunim and bais din often push for divorce in a multiplicity of cases that fall outside your strict interpretation of the SA, either your understanding of the SA (or current halachic practices) is at fault, or you are casting aspersions on the batei dinim