Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Menachem shmei, absolutely Hashem doesn’t have partners in running the universe. Hashem created the world in a specific way that…….
This is the danger of Chabadianity. Just like Christianity, they mistranslate or misinterpretPhilosopher,
I didn’t interpret or misinterpret anything.
I just wanted to demonstrate that it’s silly to demand that someone only answer Yes or No to a complicated philosophical question. Judging from the length of your post, you have clearly proven my point.
Thank you.“You actually got Shmei to make a definitive statement. He officially stated that Yaakov is alive and well at 3k plus years. Of course you should write that down in pencil because he may deny having said that tomorrow.. However Shmei doesn’t believe that Yaakov is god. So he accepts Rashi literally but rejects the literal meaning of the Gemara.”
“Menachem Shmei, Rashi himself points to the word in the posuk ” ויגוע” that he expired, he never challenges that. This is what Rashi says:….The “source you mention to prove your point”, Taanis 5B, you leave out the part where R’ Yitzchok…”
Qwerty, Philosopher,
You both are so pathetic. You are ready to tear down Torah in order to attack Lubavitch.
Anyone who knows a bit how to learn a shtikel Gemara would immediately recognize that I was referring to Rashi on Gemara, not on chumash.
Philosopher, R’ Yitzchak doesn’t teach that Yaakov will be saved, it’s a clear posuk! He uses that posuk to make a hekesh between Yaakov and his children. Based on that hekesh he proves that just as they are alive, so too he is alive even though facts seem otherwise. Rashi (on Gemara) explains that he was only buried because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive.
Maybe you have no idea what a hekesh is. Maybe you have no idea that there is Rashi on Gemara, not just Chumash.
You clearly can’t figure out what I meant in my posts, because they were written for someone who has an understanding in learning Gemara (and not just a Candace style learning where you read one English line and think you understand).
Ask any non-Lubavitcher Rabbi how Rashi interprets יעקב לא מת and they will say as I said.
Check the footnotes of Artscroll, it’s exactly as I said.
If you want to attack and ridicule the Gemara, Rashi, and Artscroll, that’s your problem, but leave me out of it.
Of course not. It was from a golf ball.
Arso,
The true Golf War was at the end of the last Trump-Biden debate. I think there was one casualty: Old Joe.
I’m asking all Lubavitche here to clarify what their beliefs are regarding their rebbe. Do you believe ……. Yes or no? It’s not an essay question. Just answer a simple, one word answer, yes or no.
You Lubavitche are trying to deflect these questions by bringing “sources”, stories and writing about everything and anything other than what you beliefs are regarding your rebbe. But the fact remains that you are being evasive, you are not being truthful about your beliefs. One has to be stupid to not see what you are doing.Philosopher,
I have a question for you:
Do you believe Hashem has partners?
Yes or no?
Don’t give me any essays or sources. Just answer a simple, one word answer, yes or no.
P.S. If you answer “Yes” – I’ll call you out for believing in shituf (שיתוף), which is literally AZ for a Jew.
If you answer “No” – I’ll call you out for denying the Gemara (נדה לא,א. קידושין ל,ב) that there are three partners (שותפין) in creating a human: G-d, father and mother (which teaches us to fear our parents like we fear G-d).Qwerty: “Rabbi Miller said, “When great people say things they mean exactly what they say.” Let’s review the comments from the Lubavitchers on this thread.”
Also Qwerty: “In Bereishis Hashem says, “Come let us make man in our image.”:At face value this is clear-cut idolatry and many have used that literal meaning to support their idolatrous views. But those who accept Hashem Echad realize that the verse isn’t actually saying this.”
So is it okay to say things that some things demand more context or not?
Rashi said that Yaacov Avinu expired, but did not die. He never said that he is alive physically!!! He said he expired but did not die which meforshim have many explanations what it means (one mefoiresh is that he lives on through his children)
Philosopher, don’t parade your ignorance like a badge of honor.
The difference between us is that you are making random claims about the pshat of Rashi, while I brought Rashi’s lashon and sources and the various mefarshim.
What I said is not unique to Chabad.
Anyone can open up an artscroll Gemara (Taanis 5B) and see for themselves in the footnotes: The classic understanding is: Rashi understood it literally (נדמה להם שהוא מת אבל חי היה – it seemed to them that he died, but really he was alive), while other mefarshim (such as Maharsha) argue and say that the Gemara refers to his children, or the like.If you don’t believe me, open a Artscroll.
I’m anti-Chabad and anti-Rebbe but I’m not an anti Semite. Candace Owens is anti-Chabad and anti-Rebbe and she is an anti-Semite. When a person makes a statement it must be understood in the context of the speaker
Well, there it is, exactly what I’ve been saying all along. Just as Candace Owens hates Jews and therefore tries to twist any potentially suspicious Jewish statement, Qwerty does the same with Chabad and a tremendous tzaddik (r”l). It’s not the content of the statements he’s reacting to, but the fact that it came from Chabad.
Qwerty’s bias is so extreme that he’s willing to ridicule a vort from the Vilna Gaon simply because a Lubavitcher repeated it.
Qwerty wrote about the Vilna Gaon’s vort: “that’s absolutely false” and that it “…downplayed Avraham Avinu’s greatness by writing in his book that the Akeidah was our Founder’s only true test which is obviously false. Leaving his homeland and sending away Yishmael were examples of Avraham going against his Middah of Chesed.” Not only is Qwerty attacking the Vilna Gaon here, but he’s also attacking Rashi on Chumash and the Gemara (that Hashem begged Avraham to pass the last test “lest it seem that the first tests had no substance” “שלא יאמרו הראשונות אין בהם ממש”)!In an earlier chapter of the book [Rabbi Posner] wrote that there are two kinds of Orthodox Jews…
I don’t have the book, but I doubt he wrote it the way you’re presenting it. Either way:
What you have here is simply a Lubavitcher explaining why he believes Chabad’s derech is unique and important. It’s no different from a Satmar chossid saying: “There are some Orthodox Jews who are Zionists, but Satmar follows the true Torah derech of opposing Zionism.”
If a Satmar chossid doesn’t believe that his derech is the truest, and instead says that being a Zionist is just as valid, then he isn’t really Satmar, because he doesn’t even believe in his own views!This doesn’t mean that every Lubavitcher, Satmar, Zionist, or Brisker thinks that they are personally superior. Each individual knows their personal faults (hopefully), but we believe we are following the best derech.
Your own self-comparison to Candace Owens is so perfect: She accuses Jews of “supremacism” because we dare to believe our religion is greater than all others and that Jews have a unique connection to G-d. Meanwhile, she obviously believes the same about her own religion. If she didn’t think her faith was superior, she’d convert!
Conclusion: You interpret Chabad’s statements negatively because you hate Chabad. You hate Chabad because of how you interpret their statements. This is nothing but circular logic.
I think we’ve found the perfect definition of sinas chinam. I don’t use that term lightly (I acknowledge it’s often misused) but in this case, I think it fits exactly.
Excuse me, please do not insult AI.
You are referring to the old fashioned way of searching on Google.Indeed, when I Googled “is it geneiva to park a bike on a public sidewalk” all of the results were about Switzerland.
However, when I posed the same question to AI (ChatGPT), this was the beautiful response:
“Parking a bike on a public sidewalk is generally not considered **geneiva** (theft), as public sidewalks are meant for public use. However, it could be an issue of **gezel harabim** (stealing from the public) if parking the bike obstructs pedestrian traffic or violates local laws.
Halachically, causing inconvenience or damage to the public can be problematic, even if no direct theft is involved. Therefore, it’s best to ensure the bike is parked in a way that doesn’t block the sidewalk or violate regulations.”
I asked Shmei to acknowledge that Seichel and Cunin are idolaters because if one even gives a hint that he believes that a human has power this is idolatry and/or Amalekism.
Would you say the same about the Minchas Elozor, Noam Elimelech, Rabbeinu Bachya, Tanya, Yerushalmi and Zohar?
Because they all said things that may sound like AZ ch”v to the untrained ear (as I have asked you over a dozen times, yet you always lie and pretend that you don’t see the question).True to form that liar changed the subject and twisted himself into a pretzel trying to prove that the Rebbe didn’t reject the Gemara in Cheilek.
Changed the subject? You called a talmid chacham a kofer r”l over ten times over the past year, including yesterday, so when I finally proved that you were wrong, you call it changing the subject!?
trying to prove
Trying!? The proofs were as clear as day. So clear, that your only response was “I will not address anything said by Shmei.”
And he certainly rejected the Gemara which said that there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes.
This too was answered already at length.
The difference between qwerty and you is that he can give honor to those people he disagrees with as you see he still calls your rebbe Rav
Calling a tzaddik “lying kofer last-name” sounds less respectful than calling someone by his last name three lines after writing “Rav” about him.
What does this have to do with עד אחד נאמן באיסורים?
You’re wondering if it’s an aveira for an עד or עדים to give a mistaken testimony?
To the group
As I wrote the other day I will not address anything said by Shmei. He can write til the cows come home. My decision is final.Qwerty, you attacked Rabbi Posner for saying a vort of the Vilna Gaon, you attacked the Rebbe for saying the opinion of the Bal HaTanya and Rav Yochanan, you attacked Lostspark for posting lashon haZohar, etc. etc.
Now you are silent!?
Is this where I’m meant to say checkmate?
Moreover the Gemara says that most Jews won’t be redeemed by Moshiach, the real Moshiach.
Qwerty, you don’t stop with this attack. You claim that trying to bring all Jews to do teshuva is worthless and contradicts a clear Gemara. You have made this claim on many occasions, and with vicious, angry tones. For example:
1. “There are serious questions with regard to Rabbi Schneersohn himself. He espoused views that contradict the Gemara. For example, he said that every Jew will be redeemed by Moshiach, with no exception, while the Gemara in Sanhedrin 111a states that only 0ne of 300,000 will be redeemed.”
2. “How could the Rebbe contradict an explicit statement in the Gemara, to wit, only one out of 300,000 Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach? According to the Rebbe all Jews, including Bernie Sanders, Woody Allen and the like will be redeemed.”
3. “For 2,000 years people learned the Gemara which said that just as only 2 of 600,000 Jews left Egypt and came to Israel, so too only 2 out of 600,000 Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach. No one ever questioned this until the Rebbhe decided that he knew the real Pshat and all Jews will be redeemed.”And many, many more.
You go on to call a great talmid chacham “kofer” (r”l!) because you don’t understand what he said.I will try to enlighten you:
The Rambam writes (Hilchos Teshuva 7:5) “וּכְבָר הִבְטִיחָה תּוֹרָה שֶׁסּוֹף יִשְׂרָאֵל לַעֲשׂוֹת תְּשׁוּבָה בְּסוֹף גָּלוּתָן וּמִיָּד הֵן נִגְאָלִין” – “The Torah has already promised that the Jewish people will do teshuva at the end of golus and immediately be redeemed.”
The Baal HaTanya (Tanya ch. 3 & Hilchos Talmud Torah) understands this to refer to every single Jew, as it states לא (בלתי) ידח ממנו נדח – “no one who was banished from Him [by his sins] will remain banished.”
So, when the Rebbe said every Jew will be redeemed and we should try to reach every Jew for teshuva, he was just following the Baal HaTanya.
You may ask, how does this fit with the Gemara that you keep quoting from Sanhedrin 111a?
Well, if you would look at any other part of the page other than that one line, you would realize that what you are quoting is ONLY the opinion or Rava, but does not fit with the other opinions on the page!I will explain:
The posuk says that at the time of redemption, “two thirds will be wiped out and one third will remain.”
Thirds of what?
Resh Lakish says that only one third of the Jews (Arpachshad ben Sheim’s descendants) will survive, all others will die.
R’ Yochanan says, “Hashem is not happy with you saying such a thing” – that so many Jews (or non-Jews, depends on which meforash) will die! Instead, one third of Sheim’s descendants will survive. i.e., ALL the Jews and many non-Jews will survive.Even according Resh Lakish (who said something that “Hashem is not happy with”), at least a third of Jews will survive, which disagrees with Rava’s opinion that only 2/600,000 will survive. Certainly R’ Yochanan, who says that all Jews will survive, argues with Rava.
Next section on the amud of Gemara:
Resh Lakish says, Hashem will only redeem the tzaddikim; one Jew from every city and two from every household.
R’ Yochanan says, “Hashem is not happy with you saying such a thing” – that most of the Jews won’t be redeemed! Rather, he explains, the merit of one tzaddik will cause his entire city to be redeemed, and in the merit of two, their entire household.
[Rav and Rav Kahana had the same machlokes, with Rav admonishing R’ Kahana.]Finally, after all of this, comes the statement of Rava that only 2/600,000 will survive.
I can’t understand why, from this entire sugya, someone would specifically choose the opinion of Rava that most Jews won’t make it, while ignoring all the other opinions?
R’ Yochanan would definitely say about you “לא ניחא לי’ למרייהו דאמרת להו הכי” – Hashem is not pleased that you speak this way!Even the statement of Rava needn’t be understood literally (that most Jews will not be redeemed). Meforshim explain that the majority of Jews who won’t be present at the Geula refers to the many PREVIOUS generations of Jews from before the Geula. These people will rise for techiyas hameisim and greatly outnumber the group of Jews who were part of the generation that was present at the actual time of Geula. [See footnotes in Artscroll, referencing Maharal and Yaavetz.]
Conclusion: Even if you consider yourself among the greatest tzaddikim, in the top 2/600,000 of the Jewish people, and you aren’t interested in seeing the millions of other “lowly Jews” join you in the Geula, choosing to accept Rava’s (literal) opinion that most Jews won’t be redeemed — that still doesn’t give you the right to repeatedly label a great talmid chacham as a kofer and a liar (r”l) for following the views of the Baal HaTanya, R’ Yochanan, Rav, and even Rava himself, as understood by many meforshim.
Qwerty, I hope you will either refute my points or do some serious teshuva for denigrating a tzaddik so many times with the arrogance of your ignorance.
Qwerty,
Shulchan Aruch:
עָוֹן גָּדוֹל הוּא לְבַזּוֹת תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים אוֹ לִשְׂנאוֹתָן. לֹא חָרְבָה יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, עַד שֶׁבִּזּוּ בָהּ תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר, וַיִהְיוּ מַלְעִיבִים בְּמַלְאֲכֵי הָאֱלֹהִים וּבוֹזִים דְּבָרָיו וּמִתַּעְתְּעִים בִּנְבִיאָיו, כְּלוֹמַר, בּוֹזִים מְלַמְּדֵי דְבָרָיו. וְכֵן זֶה שֶׁאָמְרָה תוֹרָה, וְאִם בְּחֻקֹּתַי תִּמְאָסוּ, מְלַמְּדֵי חֻקּוֹתַי תִּמְאָסוּ. וְכָל הַמְבַזֶּה אֶת הַחֲכָמִים, אֵין לוֹ חֵלֶק לָעוֹלָם הַבָּא, וְהוּא בִּכְלַל כִּי דְבַר ה’ בָּזָה. וְאָסוּר לְשַׁמֵּשׁ בְּמִי שֶהוּא שׁוֹנֶה הֲלָכוֹת.It is a great sin to disgrace or hate Torah scholars. Jerusalem was not destroyed until its people disgraced the Torah scholars, as it says: “They mocked the messengers of G-d, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets”, meaning they scorned those who taught His words. Similarly, when the Torah says, “If you despise My statutes”, it means you despise those who teach My statutes. Anyone who disgraces Torah scholars has no share in the World to Come, and is included in the verse, “For he has despised the word of G-d”. It is forbidden to serve someone who studies halachot.
I will once again voice my macha’a against Qwerty’s use of vile and disrespectful language regarding a revered tzaddik, honored by countless Jews.
This tiny ant’s ignorance and arrogance prevent him from engaging in a civil and respectful dialogue.No matter my personal views, I would never post that way about a Litvisher gadol, even one who may have viciously attacked my derech, out of respect for the many members of this forum who hold him in high regard.
I expect the same decency from the other side.only those who are killed for refusing to sin are considered מת על קידוש השם
being killed for just bieng a jew just reduces the punishments after death because the pain of death and death itself is מכפר on some (but not all) of the עבירות and on this the גמרא says: מת מיתה משונה הוי ליה כפרהAccording to the Chasam Sofer (YD 333), any Jew, even a rasha, who is killed by a goy, is considered a kadosh and receives a complete and immediate kapara for all sins.
I don’t know if there are other opinions, but it doesn’t hurt to lean לכף זכות.
However, this obviously doesn’t justify allowing a Jew to die, as was beautifully explained by previous posters.
Menachem Shmei denies that Lubavitchers think that they are the “Master Race” of Judaism. Let me provide two anecdotes.
Despite these anecdotes, my previous point remains: Lubavitch is a derech, not a race. Those who adhere to this derech obviously believe it is the best one, just as the adherents of Satmar believe that theirs is the best derech, or else they would leave.
As for Rabbi Sacks statement. I heard him say that exact quote on Zev Brenner is the Rebbe studied Hitler. It’s possible that in writing he said it differently.
If indeed Rabbi Sacks said that, I apologize for accusing you of making it up.
The point remains that Rabbi Sacks never intended that the Rebbe did some “Hitler study,” rather he was saying a cute vertel about how after the Holocaust, the Rebbe showed love for every Jew like Hitler (l’havdil) showed hate.
Menachem Shmei said that the Rebbe discouraged his Chasidim seeking higher education. But why did he insist that their secular education end in second grade?
Great question! If you want to read up on it, Google “Derher purity of the mind” and you’ll find a great article explaining this.
it explains why Lubavitchers like Seichel are functional illiterates
Qwerty, he’s not great with English, and you’re not great with Hebrew. I’m not ch”v blaming you for the education you received, but everyone has their own priorities in what they want to be proficient in.
Personally, I didn’t receive any secular education whatsoever (no English, math, history, etc., not even until second grade) and with Hashem’s help, I’m managing fine for what I need.
P.S. I’m surprised that with all the secular education you received, you never learned about paragraphs. Your grammar doesn’t seem worth bragging about, either. I’m not claiming mine is perfect, but I’m also not mocking others for their lack of education. (And I don’t (claim to) write for the Jewish Press.)
We have Aug 27 8:47 PM and Aug 21 4:39 pm.
Lol. You’ve been calling Sechel an עובד ע”ז all this time because he quoted Gemara in two posts!?
You wrote: “In Bereishis Hashem says, “Come let us make man in our image.”:At face value this is clear-cut idolatry and many have used that literal meaning to support their idolatrous views. But those who accept Hashem Echad realize that the verse isn’t actually saying this. So we go to the Gemara in which Hashem called Yaakov “Kel”. If you accept Hashem Echad then you understand that it doesn’t mean that Yaakov is literally god. Good. Hope you’re still with me. Now here’s the problem. Seichel, with all his Chassidus does take that Gemara literally”
How in the world do you know that? He only brought the Gemara to prove to you the same point that you yourself said as well, that just because a holy statement can be interpreted by stupid people as idolatry, that doesn’t make the statement possul!
How do you know that Sechel understands the Gemara any different than you!?
All he does in those posts is QUOTE it!
This is just like you calling Lostspark a kofer for writing an Aramaic phrase from Zohar!
We have Aug 27 8:47 PM and Aug 21 4:39 pm.
Lol. You’ve been calling Sechel an עובד ע”ז all this time because he quoted Gemara in two posts!?
You wrote: “In Bereishis Hashem says, “Come let us make man in our image.”:At face value this is clear-cut idolatry and many have used that literal meaning to support their idolatrous views. But those who accept Hashem Echad realize that the verse isn’t actually saying this. So we go to the Gemara in which Hashem called Yaakov “Kel”. If you accept Hashem Echad then you understand that it doesn’t mean that Yaakov is literally god. Good. Hope you’re still with me. Now here’s the problem. Seichel, with all his Chassidus does take that Gemara literally”
How in the world do you know that? He only brought the Gemara to prove to you the same point that you yourself said as well, that just because a holy statement can be interpreted by stupid people as idolatry, that doesn’t make the statement possul!
How do you know that Sechel understands the Gemara any different than you!?
All he does in those posts is QUOTE it!
This is just like you calling Lostspark a kofer for writing an Aramaic phrase from Zohar!
If you’re so against Limudei Chol why do you believe in a Rebbe who went to two universities?
Tanya (ch. 8) explains that there is a difference between a regular person studying חכמת האומות and a true talmid chacham and tzaddik who learns as a tool to increase his Torah study, such as the Rambam, Ramban, etc.
The Rebbe strongly opposed university study for most people.
we have Lostspark who gave his version of the Trinity today. But Shmei’s too busy to find it.
Aha, so you couldn’t find a single post from Seichel. So you were מוציא שם רע on him. A simple, low level liar. Wow.
Now you want me to condemn Lostspark’s post today.
All I saw was Lostspark quoting a Zohar (at least the way that it’s quoted in all the chassidishe seforim from Talmidei HaBesht), which you probably couldn’t even read.
No, I will not condemn that.
If you actually find a post that supports what you said, let me know (date, time, post number), and I will gladly condemn. If not, you’re admiting (again) to be a lowly liar.
Yet you claim to have a “love for truth” more than any of the other posters here. How embarrassing!
Rabbi Sacks said that the Rebbe studied Hitler and declared that Hitler tried to kill all the Jews so he’ll save all the Jews.
The Rebbe never “studied Hitler”. You should never make up historical facts about ANYONE, how much more so about a tzaddik like the Rebbe.
Rabbi Sacks was actually just saying a nice vertel in a speech, these are his words: “I’ve speculated on this, and I thought this – maybe I’m wrong, but I think not – because he was the first Rebbe to become Rebbe after the Holocaust. And how can you redeem a world that had witnessed Hitler? And the Rebbe did something absolutely extraordinary; he said to himself: if the Nazis searched out every Jew in hate, we will search out every Jew in love.”
Of course, Qwerty insists on changing around this vertel to disrespect the holy tzaddik.
Hitler taught his people that they were the master race. Lubavitchers openly states that they are better than all other Jews.
Qwerty, have you been reading David Duke’s Jewish Supremacism lately? Or maybe you’re a secret follower of Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes?
[BTW, no Lubavitcher thinks he is better than all other Jews. I know my personal chesronos and I assume many Jews are better people than me in many ways. We do think that the Lubavitcher derech is the best derech, or else we wouldn’t follow it. I assume that you believe that your derech is the best derech.]
The Rebbe had two brothers…
Your hate and chutzpa grows from day to day.
The Rebbe had two brothers, one
Qwerty, maybe instead tell us about the son and grandchildren of Rav Shach?
Btw if anyone runs into Shmei send him my checkmate.
Says the one who begs me to condemn Seichel’s “many statements” yet can’t even point to one specific post.
Philosopher would be attacking chareidim if he saw a negative documentary portraying chareidim as a devilish cult with real footage of actual chareidim (there are many such documentaries).
Seichel stated more than once that he takes the Gemara which says that Yaakov is god literally.
Which post of sechel are you referring to?
(Date, time, post number)Is it better to err on the side of love, or err on the side of hate?
Shmei had a chance to prove he’s Jewish by calling out Seichel’s idolatry.
Sure!
Which post of sechel are you referring to?
(Date, time, post number)Either one of us is going crazy or someone has stolen your moniker : -)
Your whole post happened to be things I agree with, lol.
“1. none of them take the advice %100, and will use it more as food for thought for general guidance”
I, with newfound respect, beg to differ. I know a number of people who use the igros regularly to make their decisions, and many even encourage others to do so.
“None of THEM” was referring to what I wrote before “I know some people who do this” – None of THEM take it to the extreme, though I am indeed aware that some people out there do.
Of course we believe in Hashgochoh Protis, but determining what is meant to be done from a given circumstance is very dangerous.
I completely agree, great example.
There is a known joke in Chabad circles that a guy named Sholom was wondering about his engagement with Brocha from Brooklyn, so he opened an Igros Kodesh and was excited to find a letter that said “ברוקלין נ.י. שלום וברכה” (the header of every letter).
And I know Lubavitcher that do this (because that is what they’re taught)
I literally wrote that: “No (credible) source at all, and I think it’s ridiculous. I know some people who do this, and they were never able to explain this strange custom to me”
Was it worth for Netanyahu to have not agreed to a cease fire, that would have freed the hostages before they were killed?
Yes, because a ceasefire could mean thousands more Jews killed ch”v, as Hamas has no reason not to repeat what they did on October 7th.
ARSo,
Welcome back!
Funny, I actually agree with everything that you said here!
Congratulations on some of the most logical points in this thread!To break it down:
When someone says that a person who others assume has died is “with us physically” what does it mean?
The most common understanding is that his spiritual life is felt very much in our day-to-life, living with his teachings, guidance, etc. (תניא אגה”ק סי’ כז).
Even Yaakov Avinu lo meis – what does it mean? To me, from the gemara in Sotah 13a, it seems that he was alive but his soul was in his body,
This meaning is a bit more farfetched, but as you pointed out, it is in Gemara after all, and this is how Rashi explains it (Yaakov was physically alive, but he SEEMED dead -Taanis 5b, and this is also implied from the story of Chushim in Sotah, as you referenced) so I guess it’s not completely crazy if someone believes this about a tzaddik.
it seems that he was alive but his soul was in his body, and not that he was in 770 or elsewhere.
This is obviously the meaning. ר’ יוחנן doesn’t argue on the fact that Yaakov was buried in מערת המכפלה etc., rather he says that all of this WAS DONE because he seemed to be dead, but despite all of this he was alive (obviously miraculously).
So without dissembling, what does it mean when someone says the L rebbe is alive physically.
If someone makes this (farfetched) point, it MUST mean that the Rebbe was buried at the ohel (since halacha mandates that we follow what our eyes see, even if Torah tells us that the truth is different, which is why Yaakov was buried etc. even according to Rashi’s opinion, as the Rebbe himself explained לקו”ש חל”ה שיחת ויחי), and that is where he is now, not physically walking around 770, which is ridiculous.
I know many, many people who believe that the Rebbe is alive physically (like Rashi Taanis 5b about Yaakov Avinu) and all go to the ohel all the time.
Those who don’t go to the ohel and say that the Rebbe is physically in 770 are usually very dimwitted teenagers (though there are exceptions. As you may have seen in the video posted earlier of Rabbi Noam Wagner – who is a true gaon in nigleh and chassidus – he seems to be a bit wishy washy on the subject (though he himself goes to the ohel often) and I have confronted him about it without receiving a satisfactory answer).
[This doesn’t mean that a Lubavitcher won’t feel a special connection to the Rebbe in 770 as well, as the Rebbe Rayatz wrote that the place where a tzaddik learned and davened retains his holiness after his passing.
Another point is about Rabbeninu Hakadosh visiting his home after his passing to make kiddush, but b’pashtus he was usually buried in his kever, unless seen elsewhere.]
2. Goral Hagra was transmitted from the Gra himself, which is why it is called that (surprise, surprise). What is the source for using the LR’s igros to answer questions?
No (credible) source at all, and I think it’s ridiculous. I know some people who do this, and they were never able to explain this strange custom to me (though none of them take the advice %100, and will use it more as food for thought for general guidance, and ask a mashpia for practical behavior).
Finally, don’t quote me anecdotal stories about people putting kvitlech in seforim of their Rebbes, and having answers and/or yeshuos. I believe that many of those stories are in fact true, but that is not the same as reading what the sefer says when it is opened at random and deciding what it means on a personal level.
Completely agree. Obviously, there is a concept of hashgacha protis, so if someone is going through a challenge and davening for a brocha, and suddenly learns something addressing his challenge we could definitely say that Hashem arranged the events, since everything is controlled by Hashem, and the Baal Shem Tov taught about finding a lesson in everything we see.
But deciding that whatever you open up to is a spiritual instruction is baseless and childish.Either renounce Seichel’s idolatry or admit that you agree with it.
I would have Dan Him Lkaf Zechus that he didn’t mean that literally except for the fact that Seichel and Lostspark do accept it literally and you refuse to call them out for taking it literally.
Whoah Qwerty, new accusation here!
We are making lots of progress these days.You already agree that עצמות ומהות ווי ער האט זיך אריינגעשטעלט אין א גוף can be understood just like all the other similar statements of great tzaddikim, which were obviously not AZ, ch”v.
You also came to understand that saying “so-and-so is an anav” or “so-and-so is a novi” doesn’t necessarily contradict the Gemara in Sotah.
I assume you also came to terms with the vort of Rabbi Posner, since you haven’t yet condemned the Vilna Gaon or Ben Yehoyadah for saying the same thing.
You also admitted that you don’t actually know anything that the Rebbe said, and are basing all of your “attacks” on rumors overheard in shul and online (I hope you don’t start believing rumors on Twitter about what it says in the Talmud).
You have one problem left:
Seichel and Lostspark have made statements that are CLEARLY avodah zorah (unlike all the statements of tzaddikim that I quoted earlier) and I refuse to condemn them!This is a serious accusation against me!
Please show me which posts of theirs you are referring to (please be specific, as I have always been with you), and I will definitely renounce any AZ which they espoused, r”l.@OP you must be enrolled in the TROLLer Yeshiva, this is very big issue with the Trollers
Common,
Welcome, I was waiting for you!
Qwerty,
To clarify what I mean by “specific”:
Please write date, time and post number, as I have always done for you when referencing a post.Qwerty and Coffee,
I’m still waiting for you to come out against the Vilna Gaon who said the same vort as Rabbi Posner.
By the way, once your at it, I found that the Ben Yehoyada says the same vort (סנהדרין פט,ב), so I expect you to come out against him as well.
(And again, the root concept that without the tenth test the first nine seemed worthless is a clear Gemara and Rashi on Chumash, as well as hinted in the posuk “NOW i know that you fear Hashem”.)
At face value this is clear-cut idolatry and many have used that literal meaning to support their idolatrous views. But those who accept Hashem Echad realize that the verse isn’t actually saying this.
You’re finally catching on.
When it comes to the Rebbe’s sichos, you are part of the former group of people, and I (and fellow Lubavitchers) am part of the latter.
“In one such essay he discusses the Akeidah and the author said that the Akeidah was the only real test that Abraham faced because the other nine were just acts of Chesed which matched his good nature. Number one that’s absolutely false.”
“Kicking out הגר & ישמעאל is hardly חסד”
“All I said is that Rabbi Pozner downplayed Avraham Avinu’s greatness by writing in his book that the Akeidah was our Founder’s only true test which is obviously false. Leaving his homeland and sending away Yishmael were examples of Avraham going against his Middah of Chesed.”
In addition to what I posted earlier, I did some more research, and this is what I found:
The Vilna Gaon:
“By the Akeida Hashem said “Now I I know that you fear Hashem,” because until then Avraham was only a great rachman (merciful) for he would invite guests and do acts of kindness. However, the middah of Achzariyus (cruelty/severity) and forcing himself to fulfill Hashem’s mitzvos was not yet apparent in him, and people could have said that Avraham is not a tzaddik gamur ch”v.However, at the Akeida, when he also acted with the middah of Achzariyus, for he had a complete desire to fulfill Hashem’s command and slaughter his only son, then he was complete, and it was clear that he was a tzaddik gamur.”
See it here, in his sefer Kol Eliyahu: https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14227&st=&pgnum=7
Will you begin attacking the Vilna Gaon as well now?
Or will you admit that it’s absurd to attack random pirushim and vertelach just because you don’t understand them or don’t like the author?
Lubavitchers have their own “Chumash” called “the rebbe’s sichos” (which is why it’s probably quoted a lot over here)
I know, it’s crazy for students to quote their teacher all the time.
Imagine if someone לא אמר דבר שלא שמע מרבו, such blasphemy.So according to Shmei no one should study this work because of his “ignorance.”
On the contrary, study it! But don’t viciously attack others because you haven’t studied enough to understand what they mean.
there is one overriding, sacrosanct unalterable concept in Judaism, “Hashem Echad and nothing has any power other than Him.” This is Judaism 1.0 and it’s been universally accepted by believing Jews throughout the ages.
Of course, especially if one learns chassidus which focuses so much on Achdus Hashem.
However, that doesn’t mean that there lack statements throughout Torah that may confuse someone who doesn’t know how to learn. Think about all the statements that I’ve referenced earlier.
Or when it says that anyone who says Vayechulu on Shabbos becomes a שותף במעשה בראשית. According to your logic this is literally שיתוף ch”v.
Or that one must honor one’s parents because שלשה שותפין באדם הקב”ה אביו ואמו – according to you this is trinity ch”v!Qwerty, I know that now you’ll start giving excuses and explanations of what these statements REALLY mean, but that is pointless. I’m not ch”v saying that these statements are AZ. I’m saying that it’s childish to close your ears and scream every time you hear something that you misunderstand to be wrong.
All I said is that Rabbi Pozner downplayed Avraham Avinu’s greatness by writing in his book that the Akeidah was our Founder’s only true test which is obviously false.
This is literally in Rashi on chumash (as I explained at length)! It’s not ch”v downplaying Avraham’s greatness, on the contrary, it says that after the akeida any doubts that could have risen about Avraham’s loyalty were cleared.
Anyone who learns chassidus and especially the Rebbe’s sichos can attest to the tremendous admiration given for Avraham’s greatness.
It’s absurd how much effort you put into misreading Chabad divrei Torah to interpret them in a negative way.
I strongly agree with Yankel Berel, very very well said.
However, I will add that while I strongly support the fact that Jews are staying in control of the area and sending soldiers to protect the Jews, I absolutely don’t support all the symbols of their agenda of making Jews a nation like any other.
This includes their flag, their anthem (which intentionally omits any mention of G-d), the title Medinas Yisroel which they use to substitute the traditional, biblical “Eretz Yisroel.”Moreover, I feel that the flag, the anthem, etc. are detrimental
to their security, because they give chashivus to our recent, 70-year-old “independence” “given to us” by the UN, as opposed to the fact that it’s an ancient gift from the Creator to Avraham Avinu.
This encourages the bogus claim that we are a “colonialist entity” living on stolen land which must be “returned” to the Arabs, ch”v.I was especially disheartened when after October 7th, every Jew felt the need to do something to show their support, many chose (in their ignorance, thanks to the Zionist propaganda) to engage in waving the Zionist flag, etc., instead of engaging in true Judaism. (This is not to say that there weren’t many, many Jews who were inspired to add in Torah and mitzvos, but it could have been much more).
When people start associating the flag with Judaism, it’s because they think that the main part of being a Jew is being an “Israeli”, eating Israeli food, speaking the language, singing the songs, and waving the flags. However, true Yiddishkeit cannot be secular, rather it’s only Torah and mitzvos.
I challenged the Rebbe because he rejected the Gemara which says that there is no longer Nevuah. You answer by arguing that many Gemaras are wrong.
Chas v’shalom!
My point was that “Many Gemaras are wrong” – according to YOUR logic!
(Anyone with a small amount of comprehension can grasp what I meant)When the Gemara said that humility ended it means Rebbe’s level of humility. You know that, but you need to defend your
Finally, you have demonstrated that just because someone says something that seems to contradict a Gemara (such as “so-and-so is an anav” or “so-and-so is a novi”) that doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s an apikores, rather more study is needed.
when Rashi says that Yaacov avinu did not die there are numerous mefarshim that explain what it means. There is no mefoiresh saying that he is here with us physically. And yet i heard a Chabad rabbi claim that Rashi said that Yaacov is with us physically; that is a lie.
I guess it’s not just Qwerty who is arrogant about his ignorance.
Rashi (Taanos 5b) explains יעקב לא מת literally.
והאי דחנטו חנטיא סבורים היו שמת – they embalmed him because they THOUGHT he was dead.
נדמה להם שהוא מת אבל חי היה – it SEEMED to them that he was dead, but he was alive.Maharsha and others ARGUE on this pirush, and explain that his body did die.
This is the classic understanding of their argument, not unique to Chabad. Check any Artscroll.
In one such essay he discusses the Akeidah and the author said that the Akeidah was the only real test that Abraham faced because the other nine were just acts of Chesed which matched his good nature. Number one that’s absolutely false.
Qwerty,
I said this before, and I’ll say it again. It’s okay to be ignorant, but the arrogance of ignorance is unacceptable. Why do you spend so much time reading Lubavitch books in order to misunderstand and attack them, instead of using that time to educate yourself so that your questions go away?
Now, let me explain what you read in Rabbi Posner’s book:
After the tenth test of the Akeida, Hashem said עתה ידעתי כי ירא אלקים אתה – “NOW I know that your fear Hashem.”
The obvious question is, why only now? Wasn’t Avraham tested nine times before?
Moreover: The Gemara says (and it’s brought in Rashi), why did Hashem tell Avraham קח נא – “PLEASE take your son”? Because if Avraham would fail this test, people would say about the first tests לא הי’ בהן ממש – “they had no substance.”
Why would the first tests be worthless just because Avraham didn’t pass the last one?
One of the answers given is that since Avraham’s nature was מדת החסד, it would SEEM that he only passed the first tests because they fit with his nature. However, by passing the tenth test (which went against the מדת החסד), it became clear that he passed all of the tests only for the sake of Hashem.
This is explained in many places, including by the Rebbe (לקו”ש ח”ב ע’ 378 ועוד בכ”מ), the Rebbe Rayatz (סה”מ קונטרסים ח”ב ע’ 642), Tanya (אגה”ק סי’ יג), etc., all based on a Zohar.
Oh, and the Vilna Gaon (not quite a Lubavitcher) also writes something similar (ספד”צ פ”ג ד”ה וענין שמא
).Number two in their religion no one is shown any respect except the seven Rebbe’s
I’m not sure if this is a random attack (in which case there’s no need to answer) or a continuation to the beginning of your post. I will assume the latter.
Anyone familiar with Chabad chassidus, and even more so with the Rebbe’s sichos, know the major levels or respect and veneration for Avraham Avinu, and the aforementioned vort only increases Avraham’s greatness; its point is to prove how Avraham’s avoda was completely selfless.On Sukkas they honor the Rebbe’s as the actual Ushpizin.
Every night of Sukkos, the Rebbe would say a sicha about that night’s ushpiza according to the Zohar (Avraham, Yitzchak, Yaakov, etc.), and lesson that can be learned from his avoda.
The Rebbe Rayatz said that in addition to those ushpizin, there are also other Ushpizin. Here is a loose translation of the Rebbe Rayatz’s sicha from the first night of Sukkos 5697 (סה”ש תרצ”ז ע’ 197):
“In 5654, in the Sukkah, my father the Rebbe [Rashab] said: By us there are also ushpizin, the Baal Shem Tov, the Maggid [of Mezritch], etc. This means that the first day is Avraham and all those who come with him with the Baal Shem Tov; the second day is Yitzchak etc. with the Maggid, etc.”Qwerty,
The Rambam tells us what nevuah is in הלכות יסודי התורה.
Ruach Hakodesh is one thing, Siyata Dishmaya is another and Nevuah is a third and they’re not interchangeable.
You yourself conflated ruach hakodesh with nevuah, because the Gemara which you paraphrased as “there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes” actually says: “Since the death of Chagai, Zachariah and Malachai, RUACH HAKODESH departed from Yisroel.”
The Rebbe called the Rayatz a Novi, but he doesn’t relate any specific prophecy.
Why do you drone on about what the Rebbe did or didn’t say or mean, if you’ve never even read it!?
I understand that you struggle with Hebrew and Yiddish, but (1) If you don’t know something, say I don’t know. Don’t start assuming what he said.
(2) At least read a loose translation in English! Google “Chabad dot org parshas shoftim 5751” (lacks all the sources and leshonos of the original, but at least read this.)I don’t know what the Gemara meant when it said that Yaakov is god.
You obviously don’t know what it meant if you keep taking it at face value as AZ ch”v, but why do you keep attacking ideas if you don’t even understand their meanings?
I rewrote it. Hopefully it went through this time
Now let me see you explain how the Rebbe can argue on the Gemara which says that there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes.
Qwerty,
How do you argue with the very same Gemara (Sotah) which states that since the death of Rebbi there is no more humility and fear of sin?
[For example: You described Rav Moshe Feinstein as “exceedingly humble.” You also wrote, “Remember I’m a Lower East Sider and we have a reputation, which I try to uphold, for humility.”]
How does Tosfos (Shabbos 20B) argue with the same Gemara (Sotah) which states that since the churban there is no white glass?
How did the Dubner Maggid say mashalim if the Gemara says that mashal-makers ceased to exist after the passing of R’ Meir?
How did rishonim argue with the Gemara by referring to tzaddikim in their times as “novi”?
How does the Rambam argue with the Gemara by writing that nevuah will return to Klal Yisroel BEFORE Moshiach comes, as a PREPARATION for Moshiach?
How did a masbid in Ashkavta D’Rebbi attribute the qualities of nevuah to the Steipler, Chofetz Chaim, Reb Chaim Velozhiner, etc.?
[See much more on this in my posts responding to your “question” last year.]