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In your case fault clearly lies with the talmid.
But sometimes the questions asked are valid . And fault lies with the rebbi.
Like in 1666.Yankel, I actually agree with this. My disagreement with you is on which side Lubavitch falls, as I already wrote in my post from March 17, 2025 3:32 pm.
My point remains that this is irrelevant to the question of “is this tzaddik infallible.”
Menachem does have a point, just ask tzadok and beisus, their rebbe said “אל תהיו כעבדים…” and they obeyed their rebbe without asking any questions
Was the problem that they misunderstood their rebbe’s statement or that they obeyed their rebbe?
Were they meant to say “Our rebbe is not infallible, he must have been wrong in saying אל תהיו כעבדים” – as you seem to be implying in this discussion about Chabad?
If the latter were true (ch”v), why do we still teach Antignos’s statement in Pirkei Avos?
Menachem craft fully sidestepped each and everyone of the Questions asked.
WHY ?Either you’re bad at asking questions or I’m bad at answering them.
Yankel,
So you agree with me that there is such a thing as accepting a “daas torah” and obeying them unquestionably even when you don’t understand.
But your problem with Chabad is that you feel they’ve taken this too far.
Okay, well I disagree. I think the Rebbe is a great daas torah to be bottul to, so I am. That’s our disagreement.
why must they place more burdens on us?
This idea is completely wrong. Them suggesting that you buy a filter from Techloq is not placing a burden on you.
The level of entitlement when someone volunteers to help you with one thing, and then you demand that they spend much more money.
It’s like if I would fume that how dare bikkur cholim not pay my rent. They just have to fundraiser another few million dollars. They claim to help suffering people, yet they BURDEN me with paying thousands of dollars a month in rent.
As a matter of fact, they should pay for me to buy a house. These idiots think they’re helping by buying me some food, then they STEAL millions of dollars that I must pay for my mortgage.
If you don’t mind me sticking my nose in, the tzadik was born with a yetzer hora but killed it thorough his avodas Hashem.
DaasYochid, this is true.
But how is it killed through avodas Hashem? Because he brought himself to such a great level of devotion, love and connection with Hashem (which is only possible for someone who was born with a neshama that’s able to reach such levels of refinement) – that he lost all desire to go against Hashem by sinning (“yetzer harah”).
That’s why even according to Tanya, the main way of recognizing a tzaddik is a person who stands out in his holiness and devotion to Hashem. The temptation question is only an outcome of this general holy state, and probably not very recognizable to other people, as Yankel pointed out.
What does it cost already if most people will pay anyhow?
I don’t think you understand how economics, especially Jewish economics, works. If something is free, no one will pay hundreds of dollars for it. We’re talking about millions of dollars here in total.
Maybe you go raise 1 million dollars to pay for people’s filters. TAG doesn’t claim to do that, so they don’t have to.
Here is what TAG does according to their website:
“TAG stands at the forefront in the battle of the nisayon of technology. We engage in cutting edge technology to help the filter companies come out with the best filters. We provide Awareness to the community through counseling, seforim and periodicals. We provide free community service for Computers, Smartphones, Laptops and many other digital devices to have them blocked or filtered in order to retain our Yiddishe values.
We install filters for free!*
*Any charges incurred go directly to the filter company.”Yankel,
Although it’s irrelevant to the topic at hand, let’s get back to the Tanya debate for a moment. (This debate has nothing to do with “Lubavitch today” or the “status” of the Rebbe. Just about understanding the proper pshat of Tanya.)
In my post from March 10, 2025 3:02 pm, I wrote the definition of a tzaddik of Tanya as I understand it.
You disagreed with my understanding, and wrote: Tanya says that to decide whether someone is a tsadiq it depends on his temptations .
How would you answer this question: Tanya perek 15 describes two kinds of Beinonim:
The higher is called “Avado,” and he struggles with his yetzer harah.
The lower-level Beinoni is called “Lo Avado” and he doesn’t struggle with his yetzer harah. He was born naturally uninterested in sinning, and interested in doing mitzvos and learning Torah all day.
According to you Yankel, what’s the difference between a Lo Avado Beinoni and a Tzaddik?
don’t also charge me and arm or a leg….
So yes I have a right to demand they pay for it. And I think it’s borderline geniva that they don’tIt’s *geneiva* that they don’t pay for *your* Techloq or Gentech subscription? Are you out of your mind?
This era of government handouts has really gone to your head.
Yankel, maybe start a thread asking why so many litvishers obey “daas torah” unquestionably, and also attack others who dare to question the reasoning of any decision of “daas torah.”
(See other threads here for examples)
You think R matsyhu started it just for a limited goal of “awareness” or was it to make sure you end yo having filters?
Definitely the latter, but you can only being the horse to the water. You can convince someone of the importance of protecting their internet, and even volunteer to help with it. But if they’re not even convinced enough to spend $100 a year on it, why should you also be obligated to pay for their filter?
Yankel,
You asked why Lubavitchers obey their rebbe if they can’t “prove” that he is a tzaddik of Tanya (based on your interpretation). I answered that Lubavitchers obey the Rebbe like talmidim who follow their teachers, nothing to do with your complicated Tanya pilpul.
You seem to think that Lubavitchers are wrong for obeying their rebbe. Okay, nu. You’re entitled.
Chaim, if your friend offers to fix your sink for free, and then tells you he needs to replace a $500 part, would you demand that he buy it himself because he volunteered to fix it for free?
Tanya says that to decide whether someone is a tsadiq it depends on his temptations .
Menachem claims that there are ‘other’ ways to see whether he is a tsadiq .
Why does Tanya not mention those ‘other ways ?I explained this to the best of my ability in the original post.
If I didn’t do a good job presenting the first twelve prokim of Tanya in two paragraphs, then go learn it *properly* in the original.
Here’s the mistake some posters here are making (maybe based on mistaken Lubavitcher online poster):
You think the reason why Lubavitchers follow, trust and obey the Rebbe is because of a complicated pilpul that the Rebbe is a tzaddik of Tanya, and a tzaddik of Tanya can’t sin, so he is infallible, which means we must trust him because he can’t make mistakes.
This entire premise is wrong. Chassidim trust the Rebbe simply because that’s how a devoted talmid relates to רבו המובהק.
Chassidim follow their rebbe with אמונת חכמים, they feel that כל המהרהר אחרי רבו כמהרהר אחרי השכינה, and they apply to their rebbe לא תסור ימין ושמאל.
Is this some sort of weird “neo-Chabad” cultish idea? I doubt it. Ask the historians. I feel like this has been the behavior of many chassidim to their rebbes, and talmidim to their teachers.
You’ll probably say I’m absolutely wrong. I’m not a great historian so it’ll be hard for me to argue.
P.S. I have said many times that I have strong opinions on the whole Moshiach issue, but I feel that it is too complex a topic to express here on an online platform, with lots of background that must be understood before my “psak.” Therefore, I will not be going into it here, as always.
It’s always so annoying to see people FUMING mad at some organization for not *sponsoring* something that they like.
Side point: If someone doesn’t want a filter enough, and they’ll only get it if some random organization they don’t know pays for it – then the filter will probably do very little for them.
If you make people pay, then it has a lot more value. Even if a friend or relative gives them the money, they feel more indebted to let the fitler work.
The idea of someone having a “higher neshama” naturally doesn’t make sense. Having something that comes naturally isn’t praiseworthy – what’s worthy of recognition is when someone works on themselves, and puts the effort into changing. If someone naturally doesn’t have a yetzer hara, and isn’t tempted to sin, then what’s so great about them?
Yidden are born with a higher neshama than goyim. Kohanim receive special honor because they were born with a special status. etc.
It’s nice questions that you have, and chassidus goes into them at length.
Menachem agreed that there is no source that even a tsadiq of tanya is infallible.
I said that I haven’t seen. I’m not sure that there’s no source. But it definitely doesn’t say it in Tanya to the best of my knowledge.
He also agreed that it is impossible to know for 100 % whether someone is a tsadiq or a beinoni.
I didn’t say this. I said I doubt it’s possible to know about someone’s temptations. But I think there are other ways to gauge if someone is a tzaddik.
So the question is – do the habad hasidim consider their rebbi as INFALLIBLE ?
I’m not sure what you mean by this. But what’s the nafka mina?
why is alter rebbe’s son – mittele rebbe – mittele? was the next one considered the last one at some moment?
When the Tzemach Tzedek was rebbe, there was a first, middle, and current rebbe.
Is a Tsadiq of Tanya INFALLIBLE ?
Infallible as in a human mistake- not an avera – a mistake ?To the best of my knowledge, no. I haven’t seen that written anywhere.
how do we define a tsadiq of tanya – as opposed to a beinoni of tanya , as both are totally clean of any averot – according to tanya ?
Yankel, you know that you’re asking me to squeeze the first twelve prokim of Tanya into a CR post just to help you build your argument. But I’ll try.
A beinoni doesn’t feel a constant passionate love and connection to Hashem, so he isn’t naturally interested in doing mitzvos, so he has to force himself to do them (using the methods described in the later prokim in Tanya).
Since he doesn’t feel such a love for Hashem, he also isn’t so bothered by aveiros, and he must often struggle with self control to force himself not to sin (also with methods described later).
A tzaddik has a very high neshama (and also did immense avoda?) so he feels a natural love and connection to Hashem. Therefore, he is naturally inclined to cleave to Hashem through mitzvos, and similarly, he despises anything that is against Hashem, kelipos, so he has no urge to commit aveiros.
How can we know whether his yetser is dead [as a tsadiq] or his yetser is merely kept in check [as in beinoni] ?
Maybe this is impossible for us to know ?I doubt there is a way to see if someone is tempted to sin or not. But I think that it has been noticeable throughout the generations when unique people stood out as having a special connection and devotion to Hashem and a much higher neshama than the average Jew, even the average very frum Jew who isn’t seen sinning.
preferably coupled with WebChaver
Absolutely! I highly recommend this for all your devices.
Shmili, you sound exactly like the second 15 year old bochur you described.
The halacha is that devices are only ossur based on specific sizes:
A flip phone is permitted regardless of its capabilities because it is small.
A smartphone is forbidden despite any restrictions because it is larger.
A tablet, however, is entirely permissible because it is even bigger and is necessary for learning, WhatsApp, etc. The same applies to a computer.
A TV screen, however, is too large and is therefore forbidden.
The Golus doesn’t end when we kill all our enemies, the Golus ends when we do Teshuva.
This is absolutely true.
We waged war in Gaza after Oct 7th, what are the results?
Halacha mandates fighting wars against our enemies whenever they pose a threat, whether in Eretz Yisroel or Chutz Laaretz, in Zman Habayis or in Golus (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 329).
The problem is that these recent wars were not led by military strategists focused on achieving total victory (as is obligated by halacha), but by diplomats strategizing how to keep other governments happy. This has cost many Jewish lives (think Yom Kippur War, Gaza Disengagement, etc.).
Menachem: Why is Israel so stupid that they keep committing suicide, as you explained?
Good question. I’m not sure I have the full answer.
Maybe it’s because the government’s main focus is promoting Zionism, trying to be a nationalist state like all the others, shaking hands with world leaders, instead of prioritizing Jewish lives.
They see themselves as a political entity striving to be like the goyim (and even more goyish than the goyim) because they lack the geon Yaakov to stand up for Yidden and Yiddishkeit without concern for world opinion.
ונהי בעינינו כחגבים וכן היינו בעיניהםMeanwhile, American politicians openly declare that Eretz Yisroel is G-d’s gift to the Jewish people, yet Israel itself traces its legitimacy to the UN’s decision to grant them a “state” with a flag and an anthem.
Instead of following the first Rashi in Torah on how to answer those who claim we stole the Land from the Canaanites or Palestinians (show them in their Bible – G-d created the Land, took it from the nations and vave it to the Jews), the Israeli government concedes that they “took” the “state” a few decades ago.
Chaim,
When you take a break from war and allow the enemy to rebuild, regroup, and rearm, many more people die. It’s called kicking the can down the road. Israel has done this for years. 1200 Jews died on Oct 7 because *some* Jews may have been saved by giving the terrorists the entire Gaza.
All the Jews who died recently in Lebanon was because Israel didn’t finish eradicating Hezbollah in 2006 to save some Jewish soldiers then. And that battle was because Israel withdrew in 2000, etc.
Imagine if US would have paused WWII every time a soldier was captured.
Well said Yankel.
MS, is there any way you can check on her and see if she’s getting the help she needs?
I wish I could help, but contrary to popular belief, Lubavitcher online posters do NOT sit together in an office under 770, receiving orders from mysterious employers on what to post. I have no idea who CS is.
Menachem Shmei, you’re not doing a very good job of representing Chabad Shlucha 🤣
Like any great lawyer, I plead insanity on behalf of my client.
Is CS lucid ?
Definitely doesn’t seem that way to me from her recent posts. Or just really lame trolling? 🤷♂️
Yankel, this may be an opportunity for us to agree 😃
Someone’s been reading Aleph Shin and got carried away
I honestly agree with DaMoshe here, just in the reverse 🙂
Personally I think this thread has been much more respectful sans אותו האיש 🤫)
איך הער
Lenny’s idea is my favorite in this thread.
Maybe we can incorporate it with the OP’s idea:
There should be a $100K fee for marriage to your first wife, and each time you marry an additional wife, you get $25K back.YWNCR 10 YEARS LATER:
How do we solve the sholom bayis/abuse/divorce crisis in our community?I know! How about we institute a ban on marrying more than one wife!
Menachem, it wasn’t directed at you but at the OP
From Yankel’s wording it seemed directed at Lubavitchers in general and the posters here in particular, but maybe.
A way to have humility is by saying “I don’t know, I’ll ask and get back to you”
True, that’s an option. Especially in a very civil, respectful conversation.
Whoops, the formatting got mixed up in a previous post. Just fixing that:
there are numerable questions and issues which are left totally unaddressed by the habad apologizers.
Maybe try changing the ratio to 90% questions and 10% raving attacks instead of the other way around.
If there would be serious [attempts or] answers to all the issues raised, with a serious ,open, honest and fact based discussion, then there would be no need for any ongoing posts.
They claim to have all the answers, but run away whenever there is a real challenge.I have answered many, many questions on this forum. You may disagree with my answers, but you can’t accuse me of running away from serious discussion.
However, if I don’t answer, it could be because: 1) I’m not in the mood to look things up and write detailed answers to complex philosophical questions. I’m doing something more important at the time.
Or 2) I don’t know the answer (I never claimed to have all the answers. That would be absurd.)
Or 3) You didn’t raise serious questions or discussion points, but instead resorted to rhetoric about how Lubavitch has all these terrible problems, which I’m not inclined to respond to.
Either way, your claim that my not responding to your angry posts on a forum is some sort of “Lubavitch addmision of guilt” is ridiculous.
Coffee, you’re right. I try to hold back but sometimes I just can’t resist taking the bait 🙂
there are numerable questions and issues which are left totally unaddressed by the habad apologizers.</em
Maybe try changing the ratio to 90% questions and 10% raving attacks instead of the other way around.
If there would be serious [attempts or] answers to all the issues raised, with a serious ,open, honest and fact based discussion, then there would be no need for any ongoing posts.
They claim to have all the answers, but run away whenever there is a real challenge.I have answered many, many questions on this forum. You may disagree with my answers, but you can’t accuse me of running away from serious discussion.
However, if I don’t answer, it could be because: 1) I’m not in the mood to look things up and write detailed answers to complex philosophical questions. I’m doing something more important at the time.
Or 2) I don’t know the answer (I never claimed to have all the answers. That would be absurd.)
Or 3) You didn’t raise serious questions or discussion points, but instead resorted to rhetoric about how Lubavitch has all these terrible problems, which I’m not inclined to respond to.
Either way, your claim that my not responding to your angry posts on a forum is some sort of “Lubavitch addmision of guilt” is ridiculous.
For anyone who acknowledges that there are a few thousand more girls than boys and still believes that this crisis can be solved by having more shadchanim or some other solution, I admire your creative mathematical abilities.
You provided a number of how many older single girls there are (3000) and provided no number of boys, insinuating that there are no older boys so the 3000 older girls can only marry the 1200 new bochurim in BMG.
So from now on all boys must marry girls older than themselves and all girls must wait another few years before being married. Doesn’t sit right.
I can’t understand the OPs numbers. There are 3000 older single girls and ZERO older single boys!? Shocking.
And the solution – force a good couple not to get married because we need to get rid of other singles? Nuts.
DaMoshe thinks that The whole idea of “the tzaddik” as viewed by early chassidim is absurd.
Well, I think opposing chassidus is absurd. So what?
What is their source for that ?
Forget about Tanya for a moment. When anyone says that a certain Jew is “a great tzaddik,” what do they mean?
And what is their source that the person qualifies?
Is it because their Previous Rebbi took him for a son in law ?
No.
I noticed that if I swap every time Yankel mentions “Habad” with “the Joos,” his posts end up reading identical to classic Groyper ramblings on Twitter. Try it.
Ard, did you ask a rav before starting this lashon harah thread blasting YWN? Just curious.
The tragic status of the Jewish nation today regarding the Beis Hamikdash…
Duvid, you are displaying one of the very issues of Zionism.
Rambam rules that Melech HaMoshiach will build the Beis Hamikdash before Kibutz Goliyos, no posek argues with him.
Others say the Beis Hamikdash will descend from heaven.
No posek rules that Yidden, on their own, while still in golus, should begin building the Beis Hamikdash.
How does the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt’l answer those questions for you when you ask him shailas similar to the above examples.
UJM, I can’t speak for CS, but here are my thoughts:
While the Rebbe provided immense personal guidance, he often emphasized that answers or directives given to one person might not necessarily apply to another.
Especially in the later years, the Rebbe would frequently refrain from answering personal questions directly. Instead, he directed chassidim to consult with a mashpia, rov, doctor, or ‘yedidim mevinim’ — depending on the context of the question.
So, if I or anyone I know has a practical question like the one you described, we consult with the relevant individuals for advice, expecting that the guidance will be informed and guided by the wealth of the Rebbe’s teachings.
what does chabad think about the vilna gaon?
The Rebbe quoted him and referenced him often, with respect.
if it was a car that hit you, you would be dead
This is a correct and important distinction between cars and scooters.
Scooters are indeed dangerous, but so are bikes. It’s really hard to avoid using these when you live on the city and need to get across town quickly, and the driving and parking is horrendous.
If you want to get from one part of Brooklyn to the other, biking or scootering is by far the most efficient way.
Is 770 the dwelling place of the Shechina?
Do you believe that 770 is the Mikdash?“That’s absurd! Everyone knows the Beis HaMikdash was destroyed, and the Shechina either returned to Heaven or rests at the Kosel. Right?”
But wait – the pasuk says that after the Beis HaMikdash was destroyed, the Shechina dwells in the “small mikdash.”
Where is the “small mikdash” (or “second to the Mikdash” –Rashi/Targum)?
R’ Elazar says (מגילה כט,א): “This is the house of our rebbe in Bavel.”“The Shechina remained with the Jews wherever they were exiled” – but where?
Abaye says it’s in the central Beis Knesses of the time.Now, the question is: Where is the “central shul”? And who is “our rebbe”?
That’s up for debate, but I think you can guess what the average Lubavitcher would answer…