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health, Rav Baron was rosh yeshiva of Merkaz HaTorah in Montreal for over 60 years. He was mechaber many seforim including nesivos lev, yishrei lev, misamchei lev, birkas reuvain, birkas yehuda, yismach chaim, netzach yaakov, das yehudis and hagadas lev. Rav Baron was also very involved with gittin and specifically took the most difficult cases, relieving many agunos of their tzaar.
musicaldignity, thanks for posting. and thanks to all those involved with the live broadcast. He was indeed pillar of our family, rock of the world. He should be a meilitz yosher for all of us..
a degree? do you mean any degree? thats like saying is there a way to cook food fast. sure there is! fry an egg.
if you want to have a degree just to say you have one, then your best bet is to clep your way to a bachelors in liberal arts. but its not worth very much. if you actually want to learn a skill or a profession, that takes time, money and effort. and the more of those three that you expend, the better your education will be. (the money part is debatable, but the other 2 vary directly)
agree with shlishi. if someone wants to say a bizarre statement, fine. let him. its quite obvious that his statements is ridiculous. by getting offended, you are actually validating his comment and empowering him. a chuckle would have been a more suitable reaction….
as a math teacher, math tutor and math professional, ill just say one thing, i came really close to failing math in 9th grade!
there are many awful math teachers out there, and i completely believe that students don’t do well because they are not taught well.
almost every student can master math concepts if they are taught- in english- what they are doing when they are solving a math problem. not just what the formula is, but what are u actually doing?? and what will you come out with and know after you get the answer??
if you understand what you’re doing, it all becomes clear and makes sense. and in that case, all the haze and confusion of math vanishes…….
gramercy park hotel – cool. slightly artsy. haute bohemian.
waldorf astoria on park ave- nice. traditional. classy
hudson hotel- near colombus circle. urban modern decor. slightly gritty. designed really well. cozy and beautiful sky terrace
the palace hotel – beautifully restored hotel. grand. looks like titanic interior.
“which hotels are the best for dating in the city?”
manhattan-
mandarin oriental – colombus circle (most expensive. modern decor. gorgeous!)
ok………. i have not been following the sequence of posts, but there is a much-needed response to the title of this thread!
firstly, there is no such thing as over-education! i have never heard something so bizarre as that description!! we were given brains for a single purpose – to use them. people tend to forget this fact. education is a sharpening of the mind. when one part of the mind is sharpened, all parts are sharpened accordingly.
to add proof to my point, in pirkei avos it says “al tihee maflig l’chal davar.” rashi says there “l’chal dvar chachmah.”
dont say about any subject or matter of intellect “why do i have to know that?” or “what purpose does that have for me?” all educational matters are of relevance because they morph you into a smarter person. this includes the arts, music, the sciences, etc. there is chachmah in all of this. and only study of these subjects can reveal just how much depth is out there…
regarding educated individuals getting married later-
the chicken came before the egg.
girls who choose to advance their education, especially in fields that are not among those chosen by most yeshivish people, tend to be more unique individuals. these girls used their minds and actually put thought into what would suit them best in the future. they didnt simply follow the crowd and go for the easiest field that has been paved by all their friends and relatives. these girls will use the same tactic in finding their spouses. they cant just marry anyone. they need similar unique individuals who follow their minds and hearts rather than others’ shadows.
this is hard to find .. … …
since when is a bar mitzvah about ipads and nanos????
volvie –
we’re not talking about marrying someone from a pic. by the time you have dated the person, you have seen them in all dimensions. the point of the pic is to give you an idea of what the person is before you meet them. yes, some pics look much better than real life, but that’s not the point of the pic. regardless of whether the person looks good or not, you can see certain attributes from a pic.
and if you are disappointed bc of the pic, think of all those doa’s that can be prevented…
i personally deal w shidduchim a lot and i set ppl up all the time. without a pic its impossible. ppl are not usually expressive enough to clearly and sufficiently give over a real impression of the person so that you can understand what they need in a girl/boy.
at least if you have a pic, you can figure out yourself what they need. someone can explain to me from today till tomorrow what someone is all about, but when i see a pic, i go “oh! ok, i get it.”
im referring to boys’ mothers asking for pics. when these mothers look through a sea of papers, it can be quite overwhelming. all the girls sound the same. at least if you have a pic you realize that you’re dealing with a person.
there is so much you can see from a pic – theres a lot in a smile. and you can tell a lot by how someone stands, if they’re looking straight at the camera or not. if they’re confident, or timid. you can usually see personality from a pic too. and you can see if someone is a fast paced person or more relaxed, slower paced. and you can see if someone is classy, sophisticated, or more down-to-earth type. im not saying everyone can see all this, but if you are the type that can, pics can be really really helpful.
if a pic is one dimensional, then what would you call a resume??? i would call it no dimensional. they are all lifeless boring pieces of paper that make no one want to go out with anyone. at least with a pic, you get some sort of idea what the person is like.
and its not just looks that a pic conveys. you can tell a LOT from a pic…
boredguy: actually, i find just the opposite. the guys are looking for girls who can support and i dont find that they are necessarily looking for middos as priority. but whatever the case is, like finds like. someone with good middos will likely and hopefully sniff out someone who doesnt share the same.
what i was referring to is not necessarily the unsensitivity of guys, but rather the chilled out do everything for me attitude that a lot of the guys have. good to hear that you dont, but i think it’s quite prevalent, especially among the learning boys. their lists of girls who want to go out w them goes on forever and it gets to them.
volvie: agreed.
there is a point there.. but it doesnt resolve the fact that guys have the ‘what can you do for me’ attitude. this is so wrong! the shidduch system made it so easy for guys to get a girl that they just sit back and wait to be served. the guy is the one that’s supposed to actively look out for the girl. not that girls shouldnt be sensitive back, but the point is that he should be making it his business to be sensitive, especially when dating. its almost like the boys have an order form. if she doesnt fill everything on it, he chucks her out. he wants her to always look good, always be nice, caring and understanding, always be into him, raise the family, she must support, run the house and the list goes on and on… while he sits back and relaxes… and if he’s insensitive, he doesnt see that as a problem because he doesnt owe anything. after all, this is all the girl’s job.
if the guys actually had to go out and work hard to get a girl, they would appreciate them more. naturally, they would be more sensitive. the insensitivities come from lack of appreciation for something they got with little effort.
i dont even understand the question. who has free time?
dont let anyone convince you that he likes you!! if you dont feel it, its not there!
nothing against quiet people, but if you happen to be quiet, make urself more outgoing! we all have those things that wer not so good at and that’s what life is all about – we have to make ourselves normal. it’s not normal to be too quiet and its not normal to be too loud and not give other people the chance to talk. for some of us, we need to learn how to get out there and socialize and become more outgoing and some of us need to learn how to listen (and i mean really listen! good listeners are hard to come by…).
whatever the case is, if someone is born quiet, they dont have to stay that way. u can go places that force you to be more sociable, invite urself to ppl fr shabbos..give a speech in front of a crowd etc…. ull be so much happier never mind dating…
and yes it is hard when ppl have to pull teeth. u might know urself but the other person doesnt know you. theres nothing more frustrating than trying to figure out what someone is thinking.. and awkward moments of silence are not enjoyable to anyone… granted, some ppl have an easier time, but personalities are not static. it takes work but they can change…
eat lettuce! its a sedative so it calms u down and its almost no calories 😉
azoi is –
i do agree that there are a handful of picky older guys who nix all the girls they go out with. and, yes i’ve heard boys saying that the girls they go out with just get younger and younger so why settle with someone now…but for the most part, it’s the girls who say no most of the time, at least on the planet that i live on. i say this from personal experience and from what i hear from friends and dates that i’ve set up…
congrats on 150 dates! keep it up!
bombmaniac (goodness im having trouble spelling that one)
the problem isnt as much when boys are in high school it’s later when they start dating and things get stressful that they resort to smoking.
ajbrisker – you are so right. but why are boys going off the deep end when they can’t smoke? why can’t they handle a little turbulence??
firstly, it’s “v’nishmartem meod lenafshoseichem”
and it’s “hakol b’yidei shamayim chutz m’yiras shamayim”
about smoking, very nice to say that girls would never consider a smoker. well, guess what – most of those girls will end up dating smokers because you have no idea before you go out with someone if the boy smokes. although some people do, many people dont think of asking about every boy if he smokes or not. even when you do ask, the references dont always know if the boys smoke or not, and if the boys smoke but not heavily, the references will not always tell you.
so…, girls out there.. if you want to know if a boy smokes – ask him! that’s the only way to really find out. and you’ll be surprised to find out how many times the answer will be yes. at that point, if he wont tell you, you have bigger problems to deal with…
So many yeshiva boys smoke and many of these are top learners. the roshei yeshiva dont speak against it because some of them smoke themselves. how can you blame a boy for smoking when his father smokes, his brothers all smoke, all his friends smoke and his rosh yeshiva smokes????
i heard of a certain yeshiva that before second seder the whole yeshiva packs out for smoking time!!! bochurim and maggidei shiur…they all pack out together! if this is who the boys are learning from, why would they stop??
these days shidduchim are based on papers!! it’s between this paper and that paper.. people turned into 2d text! at least a picture gives the girls some life and ur making ur decision based on a person..
precisely! the shadchanim dont want to bother going through the ordeal of getting the boy to say yes if the girl is not interested.
whatever the case is, the point still remains that the girls do not have as much of a choice in who they go out with so they end up saying no more than the boys do.
btw when a boy hears that the girl said yes it’s because the shadchan wanted to push the boy to say yes so she said the girl is interested. in some cases the girl is interested and sent the shadchan to run after the boy, (which is a really sad situation and deserves a post on its own) and in some cases, the shadchan assumed that since it’s hard to get a yes from a boy, the girl would say yes if she got a yes from him. in any case, girls rarely waste their time looking into boys that didnt give an answer yet and probably wont…
no no no… girls never give the yesses first. what’s the use of spending time looking into a boy when the boy is looking at a bunch of names and probably wont say yes?? the girls would constantly be giving yesses and not hear a response. the names always go to the boy first, and when the boy gives the yes, it goes to the girl.
going back to the topic of saying no to dates…
firstly, i do not agree that the boys say no after dates. most of the time, probably 80% of the time, the girls say no. It’s the boys who are being rejected. The reason for this is the shidduch crisis itself. When a boy says yes to a girl, he looked into five or ten other girls and said yes to the one that fit what he was looking for most. When he goes out, there is already a bigger chance that he will like the girl after her resume passed his cross examination. Just the fact that a boy says yes is already a big push for a girl to go out. Of course girls don’t just go out with everyone who says yes, but there is MUCH less room for nixing. So, of course, when boys and girls go out the girls say no. There wasn’t much pulling her from the beginning! Then, to make matters worse, the boys’ egos get busted from the dating process of constantly getting rejected. They stop going out so often because they dont want the rejection so the girls get even less dates. This is especially true of the older boys who have been through so many years of rejection that they are close to impossible to get a hold of….
there are 40. i am not sure where you are getting your numbers from. whatever the case is, it is irrelevant how many there are and whether they get married young or old. the point is that whatever age they are, they are all looking for money. im not saying they’re looking for multi millions, but they are looking to get what they believe they are “entitled” to. it’s a taker’s society which, for some reason is showing up in the boys a lot stronger.
putting the parent body and the academics aside, there is a big difference between bjj and haddar. haddar has a lot of rules. bjj has none. hadar tells you what to do. bjj tells you who to be.
thank you Jothar! That was a breath of fresh air!!
and just to add two more quotes:
“mi zos oleh min hamidbar” (shir hashirim) – real greatness arises from someone who lives a life of “desert,” meaning without excessive gashmiyus.
“hizaharu m’bnei haaniyim shemehem taitzai torah.”
be careful with the sons of the poor because torah will come out of them.
(sorry about the missing sources)
deep, but it doesn’t translate well from yiddish.
AZ
from your previous post “according to your theory there should be a boatload of older single boys sitting around waiting for a PHD. It just isn’t so.”
You bet it is so! the older long-term learners that are still around are most definitely looking for support. At this point, they are not looking for it for practicality reasons because the older girls already have degrees, etc. They are looking for it because they feel they deserve it and feel gypped if they didn’t get it. Why is that the case?
The chinuch crisis that i mentioned is exactly what gavra_at_work mentioned. The girls are being taught to be mistapek b’muat while the boys are being taught to look for money. there’s a disparity there that i think needs to be reconciled on a broad scale…
I come from a family of PhDs who plugged through the years of education solely to support a family long-term. From personal experience, boys would still rather rich in-laws and less accomplished girls. There is definitely a chinuch crisis. Of course the whole situation is a nisayon, but if there is something we can change, then it’s our own responsibility to do so.
ok. this one is a little teef..ill explain the whole dvar torah 😉
when shlomo hamelech was kicked out of his palace by ashmidai, it says “sof melech al maklo,” he still maintained his malchus by being “king of his stick.” so in short, it’s all in the head. if u can’t change your circumstances, you still have control over urself.
AZ
I am talking about yeshivish learning boys. Things are different with working boys. Boys are not looking for PhDs because they don’t believe in going to a secular college, and once girls become educated and sophisticated, they become too much for the yeshivish boys to handle.
If there were boys waiting for a PhD we would be in good shape. There are plenty of intelligent, accomplished girls out there. The problem is that the boys or the boys’ parents are looking for support from the girls’ parents and not from the girls themselves. The boys want a stress-free life and a stress-free wife. And if the boys want to go right back to e”y where the wives can’t work, the PhD becomes gannenet or at best, telemarketer.
and if it takes moving out of town or going to a kollel that’s not the boy’s first choice, then consider that your mesiras nefesh! the girl has to support and have the children and take care of the house and relocate to somewhere that the boy chooses and maybe even commute to work and/or school??? why cant the boy at least do his little bit of hishtadlus of pitching in and be willing to learn somewhere outside lakewood where he can get help from a kollel?? why is the boy’s learning so delicate that he can only learn in one place?
and again, is image coming into play? are the boys so worried what people will think of them that they can’t go out of town? what happened to having a little backbone? and doing what’s right and not what’s accepted???
… LOT to say here!
The shidduch issue is NOT an age issue. it is an image issue. while boys are still in e”y, if they start dating they look for a girl. once they come back and enter the dating “scene,” they start looking for a business deal. they tally up their “worth” based on what yeshivas they went to and how smart they are and decide what they “deserve” and what they can “get.” now they demand a girl who is rich and famous and will not consider not “doing a good shidduch.” when the rich older girls are all married, the boys start dating the younger rich girls who will allow them to learn while they sit back without a worry on their minds.
firstly, this is what causes the shidduch crisis. the girls whose parents aren’t loaded with cash and who are working hard because they really want the kollel life can’t get a date because all the boys are looking for the easy life. where is our mesiras nefesh for torah? is the kollel life one of la la land with the responsibilities all loaded on the parents?? and what kind of chinuch are you giving to your children when you value money so much that you can only learn if you are supported???
and what happens when mr. rich f-i-l becomes not so rich f-i-l?? will miss rich still be so supportive of learning?? maybe its better to marry a girl who is demonstrating her commitment to learning by actually working hard to achieve this goal?
ok…. having red many shidduchim myself, i see this situation in a bit of a different light. apparently the person you were speaking to either decided that for whatever reason you were not a match for the person he/she originally thought you were suited for, or he/she red the shidduch and got a no from the other end. the person suggesting the shidduch did not want to hurt you so they just beat around the bush.
What they dont know is that this can actually cause more hurt than just being honest. It’s best to be honest with someone and say you realized they were not suited for each other than to keep the person wondering what happened. Communication! It’s not just for marriage. it’s for everyday conversations! dont just avoid getting back to someone. be a mentch! and be professional and give the person the decency of a response – even if it is not pleasant. Learn how to say it in a tactful way.
putting the shadchanim in the freezer? what sense does that make? we need our shadchanim and actually there are way too few shadchanim around. Lakewood has 2?? main shadchanim for thousands of boys. how can that possibly be sufficient? we all need to become shadchanim and stop thinking what so and so is going to think of me if i red her a boy/girl from this type of family or that exact amount of ‘yeshivishness..’ it’s not an insult if you are off target on your first attempt. keep trying and eventually you will figure out what fits with the person. as soon as we meet a new person we should immediately be thinking who can be for them.. the more tries we give, the more chances we have of succeeding. we say we dont know anyone, but is that true??? we live in the world and we all have family, friends, colleagues, neighbors, friends-friends, etc. be bold! start thinking and start calling
that is the most bizarre solution i have heard in a long time! no single will ever consider entering a goral unless he/she is extremely unattractive or has some other deficiency which is preventing him/her from getting married. Who would want to end up with someone who agreed to marry anyone??