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thinking it over , if according to the mechaber would be makom lechumra but meikar hadin mutar by stranger will review over shabbos.
gaol hadorah; my comment on parnassa being a nes .. is that of course we work hard, yet can we expect a regular working person to make 100K+ . on paper it doesnt add up but somehow hashem is mazmin & am yisroel survives thats the nes i was referring too.
bored guy- your topic is valid & worthy of discussion , BUT you are not in kollel and have little shaychus to that world , you gave yourself away in just 3 lines. 1000’s have left kollel to enter the next stage of life as a working ben torah , doing hishtadlus to provide for their families. It is a HUGE NES , that somehow ” MONN” ( MONEY) falls from shomayim and lands on your shabbos table. Tomm. night look around see the lights on , heat , hot challos, dips… hold on to the challos for 30 seconds & says hodu lashem kee meyadcha hakol.
( when you leave kollel the feeling is never time to hang my skates & fulfill my kesuba”), bored guy on sunday visit some kollelim.see a recent thread on this topic
music is a precious gift from hashem , i find the berry weber ” a shabbos fabreng” to be a real chidush & very moving . i would give it an award . ofcourse many other good ones as well
YWNJUDY- ok now the shaaloh is clearer ,
if its on your own property & it always happens when u walk by , no one that i know is matir that lechatchila , meaning setting your walkway up like that thereby causing lights to go on & off when you walk by would not be permitteda few points;
1. its not one VS. the other its 2 diff tools that should be used when necessary with yishuv hadaas.
2. a GPS teaches us to find our bearings & at times RECALCULATE.. that is the approach with meds & petch or anything else. ( i wish i could stay as calm as the voice on my GPS is when i keep ignoring her directions.)
3. ALWAYS ASK- “schools that think spanking is more appropriate, do not medicate (as much)?” TOTALY FALSE- the chassidishe yeshivos were some level of petch still exist are the most open to pediatric meds ( this is a fact i wouldnt write it if i didnt know from the inside )
4. when a child needs meds so depending on the severity is where the patch question comes in meaning you balance giving the child slack because of his weakness ( hyper.. mood..)& look away , & at times because of his condition he is not fully in control & might need the FEAR of a patch to keep him safeefshar azoi- i will briefly respond to your last comment in the text of a ny bais yakov hs.
1. BYHS has one primary purpose when educating a girl bizman hazeh & that is to prepare her for the next stages in her life which includes a whole lot( sem, marriage, work, life challenges)
2. depending on what circle of yidden you live in your needs vary accordingly as an example ; if college is a given than you need better hs english , if sem is a given , you need a better handle on torah text inside.. if a job for many years is a given you need stronger hashkafa skills..
3. as far as sifsei chachamim vs nesivos sholom.. most ny hs do much more in terms of hashkafa than sifsei chachomim the diff is that hashkafa is in the form of many lectures , speeches…yet some definitely enjoy the inside learning as if they were boys
4. finally a girls big test is after she is married juggling , ehrliche work ,patience, kids , husband… where as a bochur needs to prove himself to be in yeshiva 3 sedorim as a bochur ( although plenty to grow as a baal habayis)ujm- bekitzur, yes flipping on a led light is a drabonon according to rov poskim – ( the term drabonon is equally asur) , all original poskim agreed that turning on electricity was/is asur the question was under which melacha category it fell into . specifically incandescent bulbs had a filament that glowed red hot . the chazon ish had a unique approach & always considered opening & closing a circuit to be boneh deoraysa . then came rav shlomo zalmen zatl & studied the practical aspects in depth and differentiated between appliances that had a heat element ( deoraysa) to things like an fridge or a fan ( drabonon ) many poskim have followed this mehalech. at least as far as using a goy considering it a shvus deshvus, much more on the topic ….
there are a lot of mekoros on sensors , shevet halevi, rjj journal, nishmas avrohom
off hand, sensors are sensors and the key diff is if you want the effect.. as in a hospital doorway and you want to enter where we wait for a goy to go in & hop along w him. to say walking by a cvs on your way to shul where if you KNOW about it we try to avoid , but if it happens its less than a misasek , & a weak level grama , by a derabonon according to most
in your case the sensor is on top of the light and turns on at dusk so not sure how walking by will trigger it , maybe looking over a porch railing. today most lights are led and derabonon keep that in mind when reviewing older teshuvos on light sensorsalways ask Q.?
first i stand corrected that the term “WORST IN CAPS” was harsh, & home schooling is a totally diff. subject
( homeschooling touches a raw nerve , i have a distant relative who has bought in to this yetzer horah & when i occasionally see his kids it makes me plotz)( homeschooling is for kids on shlichus or when medically nec. )
i run a camp and rarely potch yet i believe & want my children to know that rebbi MAY give a potch if nec., & has that authority , my kids learn in an excellent yeshiva , yet i feel that if the kids knew the menahel has ” the right to give a potch ” it would be beneficial. the fact that the kids know ” you cant do nothing to me ” is very disarming , finally diff. community cultures play a big role in the contextgo to ivelt or kave shtiebel under heichal hanegina you have them there and more
amentch- “post war”- which war? yeshiva & parents to conversations-some facts & mesorah; up until the late 80’s serious level petch was routine even in litvishe yeshivos , even english principals wacked..& even a head counselor once in a while .. & even or especially berabim , as the 90’s came it slowed down & was suggested by gedolim to try other methods first.. the chassidishe were still giving petch until about 2005 and than started shifting but even the chassidishe petch was nothing like the petch of the 70’s . what changed was that the ” fear factor disappeared” meaning the fear to do the right thing , the busha of not being in yeshiva or changing levush evaporated to an extent. & the not wanting to hurt my parents… weakend ( in old days there were fry kids who would not marry a goyta just not to pain grandma. also around that time sprouted groups that were eager to embrace anyone wanting to leave ( like footsteps..)
as far as parents you dont need a “heter ” to give a patch. of course a beatdown is real kaas and not chinuch . (even though many readers remember those and are fine today) each family has their dynamics and a healthy child can handle petch when called for & will let you know what they think . most parents try diplomatic negotiations first & sometimes we blow it. there are many other strategies that are worse than petch & are far more manipulative , the WORST of which is HOMESCHOOLING. inc. those that have not sent their kids back to school since covid, hashem yishmor al baneihembusiness halacha institute that gives out a weekly pamphlet is made just for that to answer shaalos ( i think based out of lakewood
Benk- what exactly do u want ? what are the numbers ? do we need signs? did signs make anyone wear a mask? smoking , vaping, drinking these are all tayvos and hatzad hashave shebohen is shedarkan lehazik ushemirasan alechoh. previous doros had a nisoyon of haskalah today its raykonis .. its not about unresolved questions
rebbes & ravs.. what should they say that we dont know already?, the koach of a leader is dependent on the bitul of the followers or talmidim. u will notice that in every shul .. yeshiva there are those fathers or bochurim that are real talmidim ” aseh lechoh rav” they ask shaaalos .. listen at shalosh seudos .. repeat at home what the rov said in shul & implement it & others in the same shul do differently.
amudim is a topic on its ownso much to say , a short answer on erev shabbos is
1. everyone is free to choose who to marry and deal with the consequences
2. the reason why “working boy ” is a chisaron for most is simple, and that is a kal vechomer .. if the yeshiva bochur is not much to write home about and barely a chatzi guf … what do u want from the bochur who didnt have sipuk in learning and at a young age worked in a warehouse with mexicans or worse in a office w secretaries…
3.. ayyy some working boys ARE kovea itim & maybe even had an aliya from working & being on a schedule and… the teretz is those few exceptions have plenty of names and many girls would grab that if it really existedmuch more to say i know the above comment is logical & lacks sympathy but will be mamshich with feelings mayb motzei
for starters in the usa u have the torah umesorah directory is avail. covers elem & hs boys & girls and some more…
there was a fat yellowpage type book from e”y but i dont think it exists anymore
if you are looking for something specific post will replyi am missing something? i read all 15 posts and cant figure out what the author wants ? what is he referring to , what does he mean by comfortable? what would you like me to do differently on a practical level?
do u have any factual basis that they are ” not counting negetive tests”?
moshe , why dont you respectfully ask the rav of that shul to explain his hanhaga ? instead of asking us coffe room why the rav…
mkylb- one more indicator is the recent protests- you had 10,000’s protesting shoulder to shoulder screaming w plenty of droplets , shvitzing… plus many from other states and its 20 days now with ZERO UPTICK. ( I CHECKED 2 HOSPITALS IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS) ( KINGS COUNTY & WOODHULL)
nomesorah- the optics is an issue BUT at what cost?, what would you say to a goy if he asked you why your 12 yr old daughter CANNOT HAVE A DRINK on a hot summer day? because 3000 yrs ago the temple burned?
point 2 – sure we took a big hit & it was disproportionately very good people, did you notice that the hardest hit communities are precisely the ones ready to go forward…we are not all crazy
I UNDERSTAND THE GOVERNER, how could we expect goyim to comprehend concepts of emunah , death is decided on rosh hashana…bitachon, hashem is tov… lofty ideals that we alll strive to on some levelthe crisis in the frum community has been over for many weeks now. u may ask what are the indicators. here is a few
1. hatzoloh covid calls- listen to a scanner
2. # of daily levayos- & chesed shel emes
3. yiddish yenta type sites ( like i velt..) these are sites with 10, 000 users with up to the minute info on anything imaginable
4. anecdotal what people are saying..If things are as they are now, dont expect any differences on a ccommunal level individuals are free to adjust as necessary. W
context! the teshuva about cholera was after 15% of pozna died no comparison by a long shot to our situation . the medical knowledge than and their level of communication was primitive . to a yid from that times our world is totally unrecognizable and so the conclusions.
what took haman months ,& the communist years , our roshei mosdos did with a few clicks of a keyboard when not even one child in each mosad is ill ,
NOTZCHU ARELIM ES HAMETZUKIM – how weak we are , but if they were to close the ” mikva tahara ” for a few weeks than we would hear a vayitzakuin NY – private schools are not mandated to close . BH 40 mosdos zenen ofen heint
Godolphin, what does the president have to do with this? The Wwho CDC and thousands of scientists were following this from day one the eibishter flipped the world upside down etzba elokim forget about trump
the environmentalist were needlessly worried about plastic in the landfills ( no shopping bags) so now they have more disposable everything by the millions of tons , not to mention more cleansing agents in the air etc..
For months we discussed ” SECURITY” legislation, locks, gun , drills ..a threat visible mebachutz..
. than came bernie sanders looking like he had the nomination… socialism rising…2 weeks later techias hameisim …biden has it..
and now the CORONA .. some invisible virus that turning the “seder haolam” totally upside down like never before ( what spreads faster than the virus is the tweets .. status … and insane hunger for more NEWS NOW
billions of yiddishe money wiped away keheref ayin …
what does this all mean?what is unique about bergen county ? are these drastic measures in response to a bunch of local cases?
practically speaking ; if its a heimishe wedding expect a full house … if you are from a more modern / american community just lower the number of seats by 10% and you will have a beautiful simcha
a few points; some of the changes that evolved
1. the older dor of roshei yeshiva that went into a midbar to found a oot yeshiva had a wife willing to forgo everything and took the risk of their children going to local dayschools or dorming by relatives from a young age ( scranton , stamford, passaic…southbend.. chicago detroit.. denver.. telz today we cannot imagine how w/o money , bochurim, mishpacha… these mosdos started
2. staff / ratio- many of these mekomos were a 2 man band a rosh & maybe 2 more staff & the rebbetzin cooked or office… shabbos , yomtov winter summer – today a oot yeshiva needs an army from mashgichim to nt seder from shoel umeshiv to dorm counselor
3. THE TURNPIKE- made room for options ( patterson, sprinfield, clifton…. lakewood & monsey all this gave the best of both a little OOT yet w one foot in shtuta few points;
physical abuse – is black on white many kids who were physically abused ( not extreme) some how adapt and get used to it as crazy as that sounds and as they get a bit older come home less , stay late in yeshiva go to camp, friends for shabbos…
emotional abuse – is way harder to define and if the child or teen cant handle it then they for sure cant handle climbing out. many times its to one child and the parents can show the other kids are fine….if a teen has a illness like BPD they can make stories which in their twisted view is abuse ( as a form of self infliction…) and an innocent relative or neighbor can buy it .
one of the reasons frum people or org.s are so reluctant to get involved is because there are no good solutions taking a child away involves numerous legal battles with very little success and worse yet is that most foster children want some how to go back home and despite so much love from their new surroundings many times when they get older they kick back at those that cared for them this is deep psych stuff . so short of pikuach nefesh invite the child r teen out , get him to a dorm , seminary ., camp,, etc..a few points;
narcassists dont think they need help they just dont want YOU to think theyre narcassitic
on a plane to a chasuna in chicago i noticed a velts pyschologist ( frum) and i asked him what treatment model can help a narcassist i suggested DBT, GESTALT… his answer was ” A STICK”
like all personality disorders its gehenom in the old days we called people like this ” a shvere mentch”
the challenge is that after nodding to your logical explanations ” THEY JUST DONT GET IT” and 30 min later its like you never discussed anything
hopefully your friend is not this bad and the first step is understanding the concept of “reciprocity” that life is a 2 way street and to get you need to give .
ps DBT can help – each of us need to look deep inside and root out even small bits of this bad midohhow many drinks have you had ? your 6 yr old may want one to play games as he sees adults glued to it. kindly explain to him that when he gets big and has a job to do then he will get one and use it properly , and bh his classmates do not have phones even if some told him so … 6 yr old’s should drive bikes , play w balls & lego tatty sit down and play w him
you maybe fishing for the right fish in the wrong pond
there are many many girls who ” became frummer in ey” after graduating from shulamis , stern…or even more modern schools . BH there are so many couples like these that built beautiful homes leshem ultiferes . it has nothing to do w tv or cholov yisroel its that people gravitate to families w similar backgrounds . dont try to be like “them ” they/ we need to be more like you
there are many mashpiem that are familier in navigating the system such as rav mordechai finkelman rav sender gluck , rav yehuda horowitz and so many others hatzlocho ubrachoha number of points ;
factually flatbush has seen a huge gradual change beore i get to the contributing factors,let me share some data
a study was done last summer of ALL the brooklyn mosdos
they took the current 6th grade class numbers ( approx 20) and compared it to that same class when they started 1st 6 yrs ago . at approx 26- which means they lost “JUST one” kid a year. to the mosed thats a 20% loss since rarely are new kids coming in 6th.
/many once thriving shuls will tell you the olam is smaller except for a few new ones .
the current entry classes in most flatbush mosdos have dropped significantly and many have even starting running big ads to stay alive ( the bonus is that its easier to get accepted)
every store owner in flatbush will tell you ” FOOT TRAFFIC” is down 30% ask the motzei shabs pizza to other shops
even marine park that has 1200 families had an 8% turnover of move away (but there new took over)
SO WHAT HAPPENED
1. OPTIONS- once new possibilities opened up people considered it
2. JOB TYPE; the internet has changed the way we do business and our parnossah are much more mobile ( your phone is half your business), yidellach are in all kinds of stuff ( who’s a young
accountant today?)
3. FAMILY ; married kids always came to parents for yom tov and you were a welcome guest back at your old shul … NO MORE daddy, abba if you want you need to come to us … ( we need privacy, the kids need their own beds, mamale doesnt want to pack..shviger….
4. connection/ rebbe; or better yet “LACK OF”- more young men get married and dont have a strong connection to a yeshiva, makom or rebbe SO IF I MOVE AWAY IM NOT MISSING THAT MUCH because what do i have here anyway a subset is ( NOT a COMMUNITY each to their own )
5. SHALLOW GASHMIUS- for some moving to a neighborhood ( like 5 towns, toms river ) its about “getting more for your money” years ago a normal baal habos that came home to a warm loving home , wife , kids , lechem lechol..unwind a little .. learn a little was THRILLED ; who needed an acre w a pool that you hardly use .
sach hakol part of galus is that yidden are always on the MOVE every 60-70 years ( bronx , brownsville, eastside, crown heights……)
flatbush is full of 7 bedroom homes with 2people living there 6 months a year but ITS AN IHR VEEM BEYISROEL and its not going anywheremore than a few points on why specificly the yeshiva olam is struggling more than others .
1. shidduchim in general were always ” kashe” difficult as seen from chazal2. Supply vs. demand if 50% girls want same 10% of boys ( girls chinuch was matzliach in sheefos and hashkafa even if don’t fully comprehend ramifications.. the bar of what the girls are willing to accept is simply in very short supply
3. Shidduchim is humbeling and there is a learning curve which takes its course .. beginning what I want and think I can get till more realistic expectations and therefore willing to consider a wider range
4. Cultural sense of urgency as seen by chassidsh culture ( lechaim on erev yomtov)before boy goes back to e”y ( another zman can be away of avoiding “the parsha” additionally chassidsh boys have no where to hide there is no class.. for 20+ cant be out of sight out of mind
5. Galus = hisgabrus hataavah shallow retzonos and focus on minor nuances & gashmius, girl sizes /pics
6. Age gap seems to have some credibility as a partial contributor7. Mental health & horror stories have contributed to a much better awareness & labeling of weakness so people more perceptive & hesitant
8. The more independent & intellectual the harder to match compare a square to an octagon – more facets need to match
9. Where does the eibishter fit in all of this as one balances emunah & hishtadlus?
10. Is the Process in the way; many well meaning woman groups spent 100’s of hours trying but bottom line very few home runs
11. Yet so many shidduchim are happening daily and many many to people WITHOUT gelt, family, connections, looks , yichus, marks divorced families, , Otisville..making chasuna… so are there any ” rules to the game”
aside from its bashert what else or maybe thats the whole story
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE ABOVE POINTSa couple of points ; w/o knowing any backround to your story ( but that never stops us in the coffee room from commenting)
1. if there are no kids yet & no big bank accounts – & you both really are done – than its very straight foward basicly whoever keeps the apt pays the rent, gifts/jewlery go back , cc bills ?? promise not to bad mouth each other be mentchlich to the shver and get it done ( you have rav herbst , rav bick , rabbi bergman, rav alt…)
2. if even one of you is not really ready to end it . than you got to REALLY REALLY understand the ramifications of a get- numerous friends of yours can tell you that they had a “hell” of a shana rishona & now 10 years later laugh & love at their dumb beginnings. there is a big feeling of relief immediately following a get .. yet when yom tov kicks in and you are lighting menorah alone in a basement its rough , very rough ? rav miller zatzl used to say that the bas kol that says bas ploni leploni is everyday hashem tells each of us ” this one is FOR YOU” ( it doesnt mean that YOU dont have a valid unlivable situation)
3. if the other side has hired a bulldog toen than its going to be ugly and you need to protect yourself.
4. flatbush has many wise ,erliche & capable rabonim & many older ones who have time & experience that can help you before during & after for free – you are better off not bothering the famous ones as they are overloaded (rav meir schenberg,, tenke rav friedmansmerel i dont deny the predictions but factually please elaborate on any other godol , that joined rav miller zatzl ( not that rav miller needed other haskamos) but these are the facts. the gedolim chose either a total shev veal taaseh or a minute machoh , ( like an article in the observer) specificly ( rav yakov & rav zelig…
joseph; you are passionate about this issue ill explain a bit – not stopping a politician from voting pro choice or pro toayva is very very far from bearing responsibility and this was a yesod in the diff approaches. as far as the brocho hameivin yovin i cant explan in eng. on a public forumonly rav miller zatzal felt that this was a policy worth making an issue over even if it meant losing clout, funding,,,,,what is clear is that most gedolei hador DID NOT share that view as far as ” our response” . some even felt that it was a brocho
rav miller zatzal cheshbon was 3 fold ; A. shitas haraved that tochacha is principal oriented not goal oriented (i was there when rav miller called rav pam when the aguda honored joe lieberman)
B. a chilul hashem that the catholics were anti publicly and not am hanivchar
c. that al pi zohar aveiros as these drasticly cut the shefa milmallah and its NOT what does it have to do w/ us .meir g can use a little deflating – i dont have a lack of self esteem rather i HAVE TOO MUCH STEAM
maybe respectfully ask him instead of asking us
think of 3 possible valid reasons and you are on the right track
or maybe he is great with kids has the qualities needed to be a good rebbe yet he is not a ” parush from olam hazeh” even if you are , or maybe you too enjoy olam hazeh and taanugimwhich yeshiva in flatbush is looking for space , every school is trembling at the “exodus” of young families , for the first time our major mosdos are running full page ads in the FJJ, schools that until a few years ago had 30 kids in a class and you couldnt get in have now 23 and more accepting
do u daven in flatbush ? isnt shul less full than 7-8 years ago ( aside from a few new ones )
flatbush is full of big houses with 2 people living there 6 months out of the year
did u notice the foot traffic on j 3 stores closed in the last 6 months