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KJ said, “Another prime example of a double standard @sam2 ur so quick to call Neturei Karta reshuim but would u say the same for Ben gurion who supported systematically removing the Jewish religion from millions?”
There is no question that David “ben Gurion” Green was a Rasha. That’s obvious. Nothing to discuss.
“MDG: Have you a ever spoken to a member of the NK?
They actually have quite a reasonable explanation. “
Maybe they claim that. But it seems to me that they only pay lip service to their reasons, whether halachic or political.
<sarcasm>
Midot means measurements.
Some measure character traits, some measure dress sizes, some measure bank accounts, some measure cars, some measure prestige, etc…
Therefore we all are into midot. Each of us with our own preferences of midot.
</sarcasm>
“A day or two ago, my husband and I were talking about what drives the feeling behind the Neturei Karta movement ?”
Sheer hatred, similar to antisemitism. They hate because they hate. Don’t overthink it.
My understanding is that if a father wants to leave assets to a daughter, he gifts it to her the moment before he passes. I think that’s how a Halachik will works. CYLOR
“Can’t the hashgacha agencies (i.e. OU-D, OK-D) effectively replace whatever the inspections the FDA did in Rav Moshe’s time that they no longer do?”
The vast majority of milk changes hands from the farmer to the milking company. The company takes in milk from many different farms. One company I spoke with told me 700 farms. The company gets all the raw milk, pasteurizes it, homogenizes it, and then bottles it. This would present a big problem for any kashrut inspector; even C”Y can’t come from this system. To get C”Y one needs to have a dairy farm that goes all the way from milking to bottling in the same facility.
Besides that logistical problem, the average farmer would probably not appreciate an uninvited stranger coming to oversee his farm.
“I don’t know how or why Aish jumped on the concept. “
I think it’s because it gets people’s attention. The way I see it, you have two approached 1) Torat Emet and 2) Torat Chaim.
1) You can’t tell a reform Jew about the truth of Torah by going through all the intellectual rigor of a Gemara. They don’t care, nor will they understand. The codes will open their eyes that there may be some Super Being with great intellect that wrote tht Torah. Once you got their attention, then you can teach them more.
2) Torah Chaim – generally not applicable to most people today. They will need to feel that there is something missing in their lives for them to open their minds that there is a better way of life.
“MDG, does Highland Park have a kosher pizza shop? Do you know the name or GPS address?”
From yelp:
Jerusalem Pizza
231 Raritan Ave
Highland Park, NJ 08904
Phone number (732) 828-9687
Park Place Grill
120 Raritan Ave
Highland Park, NJ 08904
Phone number (732) 565-1234
Just those words show arrogance. Who died and made you the judge of Gedolim?
Seriously, you are treading on thin ice.
Poster:
Highland Park, I think. No sure how you are going, but it seems to me on the way.
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Mod 29,
What’s that relevant to? I know we’ve discussed it here before, but are you saying anyhing specific about the OP?
“Meat can be kosher, but more likely your meat is not kosher as compared to any of the foods I listed.”
I hope you are washing you artichokes real well. They are often infested.
star-k.org/cons-faqs-insects.htm
Beside which kosher is kosher. I trust an Eid Echad based on the teachings of the Torah SheBaal Peh.
“Our definition of marriage has no relevance to them.”
Most people don’t believe in having an open marriage.
“What is, or is there, a non religious argument against same sex marriage? “
1) Marriage is most needed when there are children. Children need the stability of married parents. The parents need the commitment of each other, as raising children is hard. Most Toeva couples do not have children. Hence they do not need to be married.
2) Toeva couples (at least the men from what I read) do not believe in physical exclusivity. Lemashal, you may have heard of Jews who believe in keeping kosher only in the home, but eat anything outside. Same here. Their definition of marriage is not the same as everyone else’s.
I’m with DY on this one. No martyr dramatics is best.
I used to have some respect for Wiess – even though he’s waaaay left, until the letter that he had published in the NY Times saying Lashon Hara about the Israeli Rabbinate.
There was no tachlis in that. Why does John American in Des Moines Iowa need to read about that? Clearly, Weiss is all about attention.
DY,
I would like to apologize for my thoughtless question above. You are far more learned than me, both in depth and in breadth. If I can see a difference, then you can easily.
Shabbat Shalom
DY,
I understand the difference, but I was not sure if you were making that difference back then when you wrote, “If there were only nine others, he probably should remain to be the tenth “
DY,
I understood that chiluk then and now, but my point then (which I still feel) is that others don’t. OR that others feel that they should, as a tsibur, force the yachid to do the right thing.
I think you can see how such rulings can be misapplied.
BTW, I used to wear a hat always, but don’t much anymore. It started hurting (maybe I’m getting older). I usually wear a tie, and almost always a jacket unless I didn’t have the chance to get a jacket.
Old man,
I saw that coming a couple years ago. It seems to based on a ruling of Rav Chaim Kanievsky. IMHO misapplied.
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DY,
Here you call it “(way) overboard”, but 2 years ago you had to think about it.
“If there were only nine others, he probably should remain to be the tenth “
From wiki:
“After Prince Edward of Britain started wearing them in 1924, it became popular among men for its stylishness and its ability to protect the wearer’s head from the wind and weather.”
Apparently, it was not in style for men to wear a fedora before 1924, only for (some) women.
I first saw about this in the Ben Ish Hai. I think I’ve seen it in other sefarim.
“Your silly notion about begged isha has already been completely disproven before”
According to Wikipedia, the fedora was the feminist hat until 1924.
According to wikipedia, the fedora became a man’s beged in the 1920’s.
I did it with my babies, but not with a cup. I used running water in the kitchen sink and held their hands out.
From wikipedia about Fedora:
History
~~~~~~~
[4] [5][2] After Prince Edward of Britain started wearing them in 1924, it became popular among men for its stylishness and its ability to protect the wearer’s head from the wind and weather.[2][5] Since the early part of the 20th century, many Haredi and other Orthodox Jews have made black fedoras normative to their daily wear.[6]
I think we can have a healthy discussion about what is the appropriate balance between different ideals. In this case it’s being dressing nicely versus not being materialistic (at least that’s how I understand the discussion).
“Also remember, respectfully, late prayers are for people who don’t necessaily work in the outside world. They have the time. For the rest of us, it’s the “7am minyan.”
I had a Chabad friend who would say Sh’ma, eat breakfast, learn Chassidus from 8-10 am, then daven. I never understood that. In my opinion, if you feel that learning 2 hours is necessary preparation, then wake up 2 hours earlier and daven at 8.
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“7. During Aleinu, fill your mouth with phlegm then spit on the ground.
Never really understood that one.”
Spitting is done after “sheHeim Mishtahavim…” (They bow to nothingness…)
2 reasons: 1) Show disgust about paganism 2) creates separation between talking about their A”Z and our serving Hashem.
Also, you need to tovel it before using it 🙂
Seriously, I got mine at Kova in Boro Park.
Although, if you are going to order online, you should know your hat size and shape (rounder or long oval).
Also realize that some hats have a higher crown part than others. Depending on your face, some might look better than others.
” You gain it Motzai Shabbos NOT on shabbos.”
That’s because you can’t use a scale on Shabbat, but you can weigh yourself after.
The android symbol reminds me of aphids that I see when I check lettuce.
Murphy’s law is not kosher as it leaves out Hashgacha and Bitahon.
“MDG: I made that same argument in my deleted comment. The problem is that that logic only holds up when the Psak is valid.”
1) Their rebbe is not my posek, but he is their posek. To them, his psak is valid.
2) I don’t know about psak that socially motivated. Maybe there are guidelines for that.
“MDG: Ah, and what about the Belz women who believe in their religion but feel the driving ban is patriarchal oppression? (I know secondhand of two individuals.) “
In most any group, one has to give up something to be part of that group. It’s the tradeoff. Each person has to do their cheshbon on what the give up versus what they get.
What can such women do?
* Follow the rules begrudgingly
* Ignore the rules and hope to not get caught or punished.
* Leave the group (i.e. their cheshbon says it’s not worth it)
There a difference between a group and a cult. There may be some grey area and overlap, but it seems to me that Lev Tahor fits the definition of a cult more than a group.
Personally, a ban against women driving would not fit in with my life and values, BUT it fits in well with others.
If you tell the women of Belz that they are being restricted by a patriarchal and controlling leadership, they very well may say that’s what they want. They feel comfortable that way.
The only problem that I have is if such bans are taken as “halacha” or such bans are used to ostracize or condescend.
“I need to write a composition on why I made the decision to sit on the table instead of the bench.”
If you are not tall, you can write how you always felt looked down upon and no one understands the discrimination. You needed to raise yourself, literally, to improve your self image.
“The kehillas that have this restriction tend to live in cities or self-sufficient towns that people are within walking distance to many necessities and have school busing and modes of public transportation.”
I imagine that they have larger families so that the housewife has enough to keep her busy at home.
Although I do have to agree with the OP’s questions. There seems to be an incongruence between the reasons given for the ban and some of the results of the ban.
“I don’t drive and there is no bearing on being “controlled”.”
It seems to me that you live in a big city.
If you lived in a suburban area, where you have to drive to get groceries, do carpool, etc. it would be difficult.
yeshivadan,
What is the source for the halacha you stated? It seems to contradict the Gemara in Sotah. And Rav Huna was definitely after the Churban.
“@MDG: Interesting! Are you going to keep the commitment?”
I have not done anything in regards to that dream.
There are differences in sources of dreams. In my case, it was something that was on my mind, so having a dream about it is no Chiddush (see B’rachot, around daf 56, concerning the kings asking what they will see in a dream).
Whereas in the case of the recent Dam Yomi sugya in Nedarim, where a person has a dream of being in Cherem, that person should get out of cherem somehow (by getting 10 learners to absolve). That dream is considered sign from Shamayim. It seems to me that no one thinks about being in Cherem during the day and dreams about it at night. That’s why we can assume it’s min Hashamayim.
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“And don’t be fooled by “choshuv looking”!”
I have a book on dream interpretation which says that the Shadim that bring “bad” dreams can sometimes come in the guise of tsaddikim. That way they befriend and help at first, so that they can lead astray later.
The way to hold off the Shadim is to say Sh’ma Yisrael and Baruch Shem every time you go to sleep. The passuk of “Biyadicha Afkeed…” also works (see B’rachot top 5a). If you wake up in the middle, you lose the Shemira, and you need to say them/it again to regain Shemira.
“There are many studies that show that workers work better with background music.”
There is a Gemara about that towards the end of Sotah 48a.
From Soncino:
“R. Huna said: The singing of sailors and ploughmen is permitted, but that of weavers is prohibited.(37)”
“(37) Singing helps the former in their work, but with the latter it is done out of frivolity.”
“that I would learn Daf HaYomi Kesuvos, starting the following day. I made a Neder to complete it, Gemara, Rashi & Tosfos.”
If your neder was to do it with the Daf cycle, you have 7.4 years until Ketubot is finished.
I had a dream earlier this week that I made a commitment to wearing R”T tefillin (which I have been thinking of anyways in real life). After that statement in the dream, a chashuv looking Rabbi kissed me warmly.
“PAA, why don’t you debate him directly on Frumteens? “
I think PAA’s point is that it’s not worth all the debating anymore, so to PAA it’s pointless debating the frumteens mod.
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“MDG, YW. Your proof is not a proof. “
Which proof? The Ramban? My point about the Ramban is that he changes his definition of the Mitsvah (FROM conquering as a tsibur TO settling as a yachid) when going from antiquity to modern times. I see that change in wording as significant, and I am linking that change with the 3 Oaths. To me that change in the Ramban fits well with the 3 Oaths.
If you disagree, please elaborate.
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“Besides, the other nations ratified our right to a state in the San Remo conference a few years after WW1.”
I have been thinking of this since last week. The San Remo conference would not undo the 3 Oaths because there was nothing tangible. Even after the Balfour declaration and the San Remo conference, there was still limitations on immigration (1st Oath – shelo yaalu behoma) by the ruling powers (2nd oath – shelo yimradu). In my opinion, as I wrote above, the 3 Oaths were not absolved until May 14, 1948.
I saw the title and wondered, “what’s the point?”
Rebbe Yid,
Thank you for discovering the lack or veracity. I was suspect, so I looked up the source. But I did not go far enough. I appreciate your intellectual honesty and diligence.
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One of the sources that I see as holding of the 3 Oaths is the RambaN at the end of the RambaM’s Sefer Hamitsvot. In the section of mitsvot that the RambaM forgot, the RambaN includes yishuv ha’arets. In that paragraph, the RambaN uses the lashon of “conquer” 11 times. However, 2/3 though the paragraph he changes gears and says that even today there is a mitsvah for every individual to live there and inherit it. He changes from plural to singular (first shavua -lo ya’alu bachoma), and he changes from conquering to living & inheriting (2nd shavua – lo yimradu).
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“Besides, the other nations ratified our right to a state in the San Remo conference a few years after WW1.”
AVI K,
Thanks for that info. That really blows a hole in my theory of history. Tiyuvta.
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Dr Hall, good to hear from you.
“The truth is, I have seen many good arguments of why the three oaths are binding.”
It seems to me that the 3 oaths are not binding anymore, since the UN resolution. Before that, though, the 3 oaths were a historical fact from 1882 until 1945. We violated it, and we were punished.
My point above, when being specific about the lashon, is like this. If the the Rav who wrote the Q&A with the Chazon Ish was careful with his words, then what does “in our genration” mean? What does it come to teach us?
If he was not careful with is words, then the whole story is suspect.
I assume that he was careful with his words. Therefore I was positing what it comes to teach us, that Zionism and the Medina are different now than they were before. Therefore there may be a change in how we relate to it.
“You’re grasping at straws. “
No, I am trying to be medayek in the lashon, which is what we do in learning all the time.
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“What may have changed? “
Zionism is no longer a movement by apikorsim who are choteh and machti lahachis. It’s now secular nationalism run by am haratzim who are generally indifferent to religion, like most western countries.
I understand if you disagree.
Joseph,
You left out a key word in your translation. It’s who is an apikoros “in our generation?”
That may make a big difference, now that we are 2-3 generations later.
The Chiddushi Harim (1st Gerrer Rebbe) says that one cannot say Y”Sh about a non-frum Jew. He brings a proof from Yibum. If a mumar dies without children, his brother is still obligated to do yibum, which is to perpetuate the dead brother’s name.