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From the article Joseph just quoted:
“A very short letter was sent by HaGaon HaRav Aryeh Yehuda Leib Shteinman Shlita expressing opposition to the teaching of secular subjects to girls in high school and to ‘educate the girls in the exclusive framework of Beis Yaakov’ “
That’s clearly for E”Y, as every BY school in America that I ever heard of teach some secular subjects.
koshervitamins(dot)com
kj wrote:
“During the exile, Jews are forbidden to wage wars”
and
“the Zionists have ignored the spirit of the candles, turning Chanukah into a celebration of the victories of the Maccabees”
I got news for you: The Zionists are in the land of Israel. Therefore, according to your own words, they have the right to emphasize the wars.
There are plenty of mitzvot we can do.
I’d rather learn. You’d rather deride others.
I read it the first time. My point is that you seem all too eager to put down others.
“The OO are apikorsum.”
That is well known. What are you gaining from repeating the obvious? What’s your need?
“Do you always disagree with the seforim hakedoshim?”
Was that directed to me?
If yes, your deflection to hide your insecurities won’t work on me. Whenever your flaws are pointed out, you make it sound like you defending the faith (when in all truth you’re just blowing smoke).
If that was not directed to me, then please ignore the above.
BTW, if you are really referencing sefarim hakedoshim, then consult them for your question about OO and erev rav.
Joseph,
Why do always feel the need to put down others and try to raise yourself?
“Nu, MDG, does your wife wear the pants in the house?”
We share; each get a pant leg.
“Is she MO?”
What does that have to do with anything? A woman is the Akeret Habayit, mainstay of the home. She should be in charge of the day to day at home.
A man’s main occupations should be learning, tefillah in shul, and parnassa. When a wife gets in the way of those, then and only then could there be a problem.
If you desire that which is not yours, you will not only not get that other, you will lose you own. Don’t worry about someone else’s tafkid.
What is the problem?
Is it supporting a non-reliable hechsher?
Is it Maarit Eyin by having a non-reliable hechsher in the house people may be misled?
Or is there another problem?
“Stop with your Zionist lies! Even if there is a Mitzvah to conquer EY nowadays, the Israeli govt. & the IDF aren’t doing it. The proof is they gave up S. Lebanon & GAZA & the West Bank! “
I’m not commenting on the Medina or Tzahal, but there are many reasons within halacha that could explain giving up land. For example, what is out chiyuv today? Is is conquering or inheriting (see Ramban at end of Rambam’s sefer Hamitsvot)? Does pikuah nefesh override?
I heard a stat once: about 1/3 of man in the US will show male pattern baldness by 30 years old, 50% by 50 years old.
technical20 is saying that it seems to be far more than a third.
I think the difference, as mentioned above, is more due to nurture than nature. Poor diet (especially not enough protein), reduced sleep, hats.
“Secondly, the Gemorah discusses secular education and basically frowns down upon it (look it up).”
Please provide a source.
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” Furthermore, the Natziv closed down his Yeshivah in order not to have forced secular education. This is a long discussion and here is not the place for it.”
Not exactly. The Russian government wanted to make the secular studies the ikkar (from morning until mid-afternoon) and Torah the taffel. It seems that the Natziv would have accepted some secular studies bedeiavad, but not the way it was being put upon him. Also the Russians wanted to dictate the curriculum.
“At the Rema’s time, an Ashkenazi community in E”Y (had such a thing existed) also would not have Duchaned daily.”
That’s because “minhag avoteinu”; whatever they did in Europe, they continued to do in E”Y. The reason why most Ashkenazim duchan daily in E”Y is because most of the founders of the Askenazi yishuvim were tamidei haGR”A. As pointed out above, in Haifa and in the Galil, they don’t duchan daily – not talmidai haGRA.
In any event, I interpret the implicit question of why don’t Ashkenazim duchan daily as saying what caused them to stop. Clearly the practice in E”Y was more often than just Y”T (see
Sotah 38b towards the top and Rashi 'Liperakim' - 10 lines down). The Rama addresses the question, but his reasoning is not based on what happened in his time, but rather on what caused them to stop centuries before. Many read into his reasoning to include the difference of chu”l was part of the reason.“that addresses neither of the two points I made “
Let me rephrase. Even though the Rama makes no mention of Chu”l, many understand his comment implies an answer (to the glaring question) as to why no birkat cohanim in chu”l.
“the rama doesn’t mention chu”l there and I don’t know why it’s relevant anyway”
The difference of chu”l is understood by many as to why Birkat Cohanim is not said daily.
“I will just give the following example,
2 rabbis are applying for a Rabbinate job, One is OO and one is a YU Rabbi.”
As mentioned before, a good friend of mine went to YCT, so I have a little inside knowledge.
One of the goals of YCT was to produce more Avi Wiess’s and spread the gospel. They have classes with professional speech coaches. I would guess that they would be more dynamic than a guy who spent more time learning real sugyas.
OP asked:
“Why can’t we restart the minhag of duchaning every day in chutz laaretz. “
There are reasons mentioned in the poskim, like simcha and the need for mikve. I find those a bit forced. When I have pressed a Rebbe in yeshiva and also the Rosh Kollel from my home town, they both said (at different times) that really there is not a conclusive reason. We just have Emunat Chachamim.
hakohen53 said:
Our Rav suggested that my son could daven there but that since he was an ashkenazi he should walk out and not duchan, especially because this was going to be an every day occurrence and not just a one time situation.
A while ago I asked my Rav who quotes a teshuva of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach said that it’s OK for a Ashkenazi cohen to duchen at a Sephardi minyan. I did not ask about daily vs. occasionally.
zahavasdad,
While I agree that it seems that the Kol Koreh may seem not helpful, it seems to me that there must be a reason that the Rabbanim came out with it. I trust that they know what they are doing. I assume that there was an incident (or more than one) where something went afoul which forces the Rabbanim to voice their opinion. The following is an example:
I have a friend that went to YCT, one of the early ones there. About 10 years ago, he told me that the National Council of Young Israel was really upset that a YCT graduate was hired by a YI congregation. The NCYI leadership then said that all prospective rabbis have to be approved by the NCYI. If it wasn’t for my friend telling me the inside scoop, I might have wondered why the NCYI was being so micromanaging.
eclipse,
can you tell us about one?
I think Z-dad’s point is like this. For those of us who already think OO is kefira, this kol koreh is superflous. OTOH, for those people who like OO, the kol koreh annoys them by what they perceive as another example of religious condescension.
So what was gained by it? Who was on the fence that will now change their mind because of this kol koreh? Probably no one. In which case, nothing was gained, but another wedge was introduced. The OO crowd will have more dislike for such Rabbanim, using this as an example of chareidi condescension. And the ability to mekarev these OO to real Judaism became a lot harder.
Z-dad, am I correct in understanding you?
Maybe look into federal programs for job training:
doleta.gov/programs/
Government grants:
grants.gov/
__________
Maybe ask a Rav/Rebbitzen if they know of opportunities.
They say 80% of jobs are through the silent job market (not adverstised).
Joseph,
Those that quoted Rav Shteinman as being for Nachal Chareidi were taking him out of context.
You have also taken him out of context.
In the first article you cited (assuming that the source is reliable), Rav Shteinman says that his support for Nachal Chareidi was only for OTD bachurim. While it seems that he mostly does not support N”Ch, you can’t say he opposes it completely, which your title implies.
In the second article, Rav Shteinman is quoted as saying he did not know the intention of the person asking. Therefore he gave a brush-off of an answer. That’s hardly a source to rely on.
Like said above, CYLOR.
I’m not a Rav, but I’ll add my 2 cents of analysis.
Removing a tag (the kind which is never worn) from a new garment is preparing the garment for use. That is Makeh DePatish, putting a finishing touch (see Shabbat 75b). Possibly a Torah level violation of Shabbat.
Tearing open a plastic bag to get what is inside is at most a rabbinical prohibition of mekalkel, destruction. All prohibited-from-the-Torah acts on Shabbat are constructive, except for carrying (which is not constructive but forbidden by the Torah). Purely destructive acts are prohibited rabbinically.
I don’t think that wearing a price tag on a garment is considered a violation of a Torah level melacha. That’s not the usual way of carrying. Could be rabbinically forbidden.
AFAIK, the first Rav is more correct, but as said before consult a posek.
How old are the boys roughly?
I bake my own and freeze it. It’s all natural (hence the need for freezing), pat yisrael, and yashan.
BTW, if you want to keep the bakery bread fresh, you could freeze it.
“Does your wife wash your hands, feet, and face in the morning, or do you take a shower? “
I told my wife to do that, and she just threw a cold bucket of water on me. Those metal buckets hurt. (just kidding)
Halaivi said, “The Arizal said that the main point of the Tallis is covering the head.”
There is a Gemara in Kiddushin, about Daf 30, that says that wearing a certain head covering up on the head is yuhara (showing off) if one is not married. That garment is interpreted to be a Talet Gadol.
I have seen yekke bachurim wear a hat with their TG. I beleive it’s because they don’t wear their TG over their heads.
“you seem to have forgotten that HKB”H kicked us out of Eretz Yisroel. “
Yes, and that same Hashem allowed us to get back in. Hashem controls the world for (what we perceive as) good and bad.
“There you have the Satmar Shittah: All troubles are caused by Reshu’im/Tziyoinim.”
What if a Satmar guy became a Rasha. Could he become a Satmar Tzioni?
“They’re harmless loons.”
Bar Kamtsa probably seemed like a harmless loon.
Words can build and words can destroy.
“Where were more Jews killed last week – Israel or Turkey?!? “
Where were more Jews born last week- Israel or Turkey?
Where was more Torah learned last week – Israel or Turkey?
OTOH
Where are Jews more afraid to be openly Jewish – Israel or Turkey?
Which gov’t is islamist and getting more islamist – Israel or Turkey?
Hakatan,
One one hand you say about Zionism:
“the gedolim have clearly stated that MO theology is idolatrous and heretical.”
But when asked if MO are treated like real A”Z you said, “I said that this is for an LOR to decide.”
You changed which Rabbis to follow. You seem to want to find a way to posel.
Apparently, the Gedolim have not said that we treat them like real A”Z. In other words, do not refuse their wine, and count them for a minyan, etc.
If the Gedolim did not say to posel, then you’ll try to find others who do. It seems to me that you are looking for a way to bash others. Just like many MO go “kula shopping”, you are going “pasul shopping”.
“In my humble opinion,this is a hurtful, tachlis-less thread.”
Agreed.
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For some Zionism is their A”Z, for others anti-Zionism is their A”Z. There is sechel here, just yelling.
“MO theology is….”
You still have not answered my question from yesterday. Please define MO tenets based on their theologians. Also please define MO theology based on the theologians.
Just saying that you see MO people doing a certain thing is not tantamount to defining their beliefs and theology. If that was the case, I could say that Haraidi theology includes that one must be schnorrer. They schnorr from the Medina, they schnorr from the US gov’t, the schnorr from door to door. The vast majority of meshulachim that come to my door are Haraidi. Furthermore, one could say that the Haraidi system of low secular education is to produce more people who are unskilled and can’t make ends meet, who then have to schnorr. That way we institutionalize schnorring generation after generation.
My point is that no person or community is perfect nor immune to criticism. If you want to discuss the ideals and theology, please stay focused on the analysis of that.
“MO theology includes Zionism, which is heretical and idolatrous, as an essential religious tenet of their faith.”
Please quote a significant MO Rav, like RYBS, who says that Zionism is “an essential religious tenet”. Commoners (or even common rabbis) do not create tenets.
“No gadol holds that Zionism is “kosher”.”
I would say that none hold of secular Zionism. We all believe in the coming of Mashiah and returning to the Land.
“the words of Torah are ?????? ???? ????? ????? on their own. “
While that is true, we all have our ways of relating and expressing ourselves; i.e. we are material beings in a material world.
“It should then say ????? ???? instead of ????? ????.”
Perhaps, with the new reading, Noah had faith in some of them to do Teshuva. That’s the reason for the mem. All he needed was a few to tip the scales.
In European culture, black is considered as Chashuv. Even today, if a person wants to get very dressed up in secular America he wears a black tuxedo.
“Swinging round and round. Conjurs up an image of a cowboy lassoing a chicken and swinging it around. “
Maybe one could see how far they can throw it, like the disc throw in the Olympics.
It seems that there was a “chassidish” havara in the times of the Gemara. In the section on dreams (B’rachot around 56) is mentions dreaming about a cat. It says there if you call it ‘shunra’ then this …, but if you call it ‘shinra’ then this….
Or maybe there were different styles of Aramaic.
“- The Gematria of ??? =?? “
Am I missing something? Lev is 32, Hallah is 43
“Why is everyone assuming that “anger problems” means violence or abuse?”
Because we all get angry sometimes, but few of us are bad enough to require anger management counseling. Counseling connotes something beyond an occasional outburst.
Joseph,
I agree that I missed some points. I see them now that I reread.
I still contend, OTOH, that all those that met with evil leaders were dealing with pressing needs and had some sort of plan. NK is not dealing with any pressing need to save anyone. They had/has no plan and no need to meet with Reshaim.
“Esther was not forced. And neither was Yochanan ben Zakkai forced to meet Vespasian when he met him before Vespasian destroyed Yerushalayim.”
Esther was forcefully taken to the palace. The passuk says “Vatilakah Esther” – Esther was taken. When she later went to Ahashvarosh, she did so based on the command of Mordechai, one of the Gedolai hador, in order to save Jews.
Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai was one of the Gedolai Hador. He knew what he was doing.
Both of them risked their lives in pressing times of need to save Jews and Judaism. Both acted on what we would presently call “Daas Torah”. Both of them had plans with end goals in mind that proved to work in a short amount of time.
NK has none of that.
