mdd1

I readily acknowledge that I know nothing about the mental health. However, you must admit that the number of suicides is very small in comparison to the number of Covid victims.
Bk613, all the possibilities that you mention are, to a degree, far-fetched. According to you, people should be allowed to keep their business open and working on Shabbos, because he may not make it financially otherwise, and then … So, working on Shabbos should be mutar because of pikuch nefesh.
Also, Syag and Bk613, according to the Shulchan Aruch we don’t sit shivah for someone who committed suicide, because he is a a big rosha. Any comment? (I know there is a heter to sit if the the public does not know what happened, but me’ikar ha’din — one does not unless the fellow was a real shoteh according to Halochah before he did it).

Rationally Realistic, nobody said that hospitalizations rates are now high in NY — bH, they are not. Cuomo said the measures are meant to prevent things from going bad, because in other countries the second wave also started from small clusters.

Syag, I believe I need to respond to him so that others will not be influenced by his statements.
Akuperma, your callous disregard for the loss of human life is outrageous! Those people who died in great epidemics a long time ago are dead now – they can not be saved. We are talking about saving people now. There is almost a quarter million Americans dead from corona by now. And it is with partial mitigation measures. It is just a cold?!? A flu is not this deadly!
Trump closed only the Chinese border. He should have closed all borders quickly. Instead he refused to implement all the necessary measures and has been trying to deliberately minimize the pandemic. And yes — pikuach nefesh (saving lives) overrides jobs!
And yes — I heard some Rabbonim saying that Chazal would have forbidden cars because enough people die in accidents. I don’t know if most Rabbonim agree with this.

Akuperma, and if they had not been taking measures, the death toll could have been 6000+, if not 9000+, by now.

Gadolhadorah, talking about our view of the situation, what is milchemes Gog’u’Magog?

Som1, it was clear from the very beginning (once it appeared in China — before it got anywhere else) that this virus was serious business. It was clear from all the reports — to anybody who is somewhat educated and has his head screwed on right.
New York has a high death toll — true. But once the virus got seeded in NY, there is only so much Cuomo could do. He appears to have done a great job bringing the virus under control BY APPLYING SCIENTISTS-ADVISED PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES !!! IN OTHER PLACES IN THE US IT WAS NOT PROPERLY DONE! Thanks to right-wing lunatics. Just closing the border with China to their nationals was not enough. They reopened in the South against advice of the top doctors who were warning it was going to cause what it did.

Som1, I believe there is no need for further discussions. YOUR WORDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES!

To believe that a departed Rabbi is the Moshiach is not apikorsus or idol worship. This much is clear from the Gemora. To belive that he is a part of God is apikorsus.

Coffee addict, no, He does not. He doesn’t love Hitler. He doesn’t love Yerovam ben Navat. He hates reshoim.
Again, Gehenom is not just hurting somebody — it it tremendous suffering. Plus, He established all the rules. Why did not He establish just cleansing people without inflicting pain on them?

CS, you compare disciplining and cleaning with Gehenom? Are you serious? Gehenom is terribly, terribly painful. And it is so, because it is a punishment. Again, if it is done out of pure love, let Ha’SHem do it painlessly— nobody is stopping Him.

Laskern, yes – hibut ha’kever.
Philosopher, from the question posed at the beginning, one may conclude that some people have misconceptions about it.

An aside clarification: neither Lenin or Stalin were Jews. The First may have had a meshumad grandfather. Stalin was a Georgian.

Truth seeking, you don’t need that many years to learn how to learn. You need to acquire the yadios. Going to a daf yomi shiur is not a proper to acquire them.
TAS, having no yadios is not an option. That opinion in the Gemora meant to endorse am aratzus.

Chabadshlucha: 1.I am a Misnaged — i don’t have the Rebbe’s sichos standing on my shelf. So, could you, please, elaborate.
2.Sorry, but you misunderstood me. I meant shitas Ramban and Rabbeinu Bechaya who say that ”Kedoshim tehiyu…” means not going a lot after any permissible pleasure.

Joseph, +1.

TLIK, please, pay attention. The Satmar Dayanim were talking about Halochic issues which can be relevant in this area. It may be that the other Gedolim were not talking about kofrim and so on etc. There is a difference between a trouble maker who does aveiros and a min. It also makes a difference in hanhogah which case you are talking about. How about a fellow who became frei 12 years ago, moved out and doesn’t keep in touch? You can’t dismiss the Satmar Dayonim’s opinon without going through their seifer and showing how their proofs are wrong.

Joseph, TLIK is a lady — it is clear from the way she writes.

TLIK, there is no such a status in these Halochos as a choleh. If someone is Halochically insane (a shoteh), then he is patur. If not, he is a mumar. There can be a mumar with a limud zechus on him – fine, but he is still a mumar. I am not telling you what to do, I am just explaining to you such a person’s Halochic status.

Takes2…, ridiculous! Look in seifer “Chofetz Chaim “ in the first couple of chapters.

Little I know, I was not necessarily speaking what to do le’ma’ase. I was just addressing the wrong hashkofic statements and the twisting of the Torah. One name? Look in Rambam, Hilchos Teshuvah where he speaks about the greatness of teshuvah and there he describes how HKB’H views a sinner before he does teshuvah. (I don’t remember which perek off hand.) What to do practically under the circumstances is one question, but theoretically if there is a need for pressure to be applied to the ba’al aveirah there are plenty of sources for that.

1. Not all motivations are good. 2. Kedoshim tihyu just means not engaging in very big ta’avos.

The little I know, your Western society attitude in not in accordance with the Torah. A transgressor is not as much of a child of HKBH. We are his law enforcement officers, just in this country we can’t do it.

It’s not only fear of punishment- it’s also fear of being labeled “a rashah” in Heaven.

Seychal HaYashar, the 20 old statement is not to be taken literally.
I’ll tell I would not have become frum and progressed further if not for yiras ha’onesh.