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Ujm and Avira, there is such an issur as limud kategoriya on Klal Yisroel. Namely, if a group of Jews (even if they are reshoim and even if we are talking about only the people of one town) do something wrong, it is forbidden to mention it unless there is big toeles in doing so. For sure, it is forbidden to make up slander about them.
Also, Avirah (of Phylistyn?), your claim that thet never bothered the old Yishuv is sheker. They never bothered them the way the later bothered the Zionists.
Buddy, when you “flipped out” you lost your “balance” a bit. Time to work on it.Avirah, I said they did not start the violence. The Altalina was kind of killing be’din malkus. I do not accept everything Reb Chaim said, and even him -you have to know how far he meant. Again, I do not deny the Der Yassin — but you have to look at the context! Why just jump to accuse other Jews — “bo u’ree ma bein poshei Yisroel le’neviey Umos ha’Oilam…”! I know many of them were reshoim ben adam le’Mokom, but you do not have to slander them like that! Comparing them to the Nazis and the Japanese invaders!
Avirah, and the expulsion from the rst of the Arab villages happened shortly after Der Yassin — during the Israeli independence war. The Arabs were asking for it — big time.
Avirah, Der Yasssin happened after almost 30 years of Arab attacks and in response to the murder of thousands Jews that had been slaughtered right before that! Historians you are getting it from are the revisionist, or lefty of anti-Semitic types. Again shame on you!
Avirah ,the Arabs started the violence and were responsible for the most of it. The Jews only responded. Shame on you!
Avirah, go learn some history (even from non-Israeli sources). Stop with your outrageous lies! The Arabs officially rejected the partition plans a number of times.
Catch yourself (indeed!), the mainstream opinion is that we are free to reject Midrashei Chazal? Who told you that?!?
Avirah, (with his kanaus) do you have anything to answer to the Shlomo’s story with the two Battei Din in E. Yisroel?Also, I agree with Aviira.
Yabia, following the Torah properly is an IMPERATIVE ISSUE for Klal Yisroel.
1, if one Rov holds that something is muttar and 5 other Rabboinim hold it is not, it not just muttar.DaMoshe, which terrible situation?
Philosopher, vaccines have been saving lives! Stop with propaganda initiated by the barbarians.
How about the mitsva of ‘lo sechaye kol neshama” regarding the 7 nations of Kena’an? Mitsva to execute those who are chayav misa? Kanolm pogim bo? Etc. AAQ and others, what do you say?
In the overwhelming majority of cases it is the ancestors who went off or were forced off.
It is by far, by far more of a second (the ancestors going off) than the first.
Yabia Omer, you are so clueless about how the Ashkenazim are! It is impossible to keep in the fold those 80% without compromising Halocha. Nobody was mafkir them, they did it to themselves or their ancestors went off and the descendants are not easy to repair.
Jackk, when there are a lot of Jews together, like in Uman on R. H, then it is different. It is difficult to attack a crowd.
Regarding the Chabad it is a blatant, verifiable propaganda lie!AAQ, no, no, you can not let those horrible Russians bomb anything even the Hitler’s bunker in Berlin. Oh, those Russkies!
YO, I already answered your question. “The Yeshiva world” is an idiom with a certain meaning. Stop pretending you do not understand. AAQ, the same goes for you.
When they say “the Yeshiva world” they mean what I wrote. Just explainnig the idioms to YO who pretends not to know them.
Jackk, AAQ, do you know that it is sakonas nefoshos to wear a yarmulke in the street in Ukraine?!? In Russia it is also dangerous, but in Ukraine it is worse.
Jackk, what in the world are you talking about? How many shuls are there already in Ukraine? And again, Putin does not target neither the shuls, nor the Jews ,nor the Ukrainian civilians. Stop with the propaganda hysteria.
According to AAQ, the US has not gone to war in the last 80 years. Yep, sure.
And partially to philosopher.
You have been swept by the ignorant and biased media frenzy. Learn the true facts.
Yabia Omer, The Yeshiva world is BMG, Mir, Beis Ha’Talmud, Chaim Berlin etc. Do not pretend you did not know this. Having a cheilek in Torah and being a Torah Jew are two different things. Do not pretend to be that ignorant. Is an OTD fellow a Torah Jew? However, potentially he has a cheilek in Torah.
Avira, what’s your point?
Avira, wearing tzitzis and a yarmulke are enough reminders of Jewishness, strictly speaking.
Yabia, what do you mean by “the Sefardi derech”? We do not know what you refer to.
Ujm, Rav Shach was in theory “land for peace”. Le’ma’ase he was strongly opposed to it as he did not trust the Arabs. I think he was also opposed to joining a left-wing government in Israel.UJM, you are totally misinformed about what Rav Shach held.
Yabia, Shas was lead by Chacham Ovadia. He did not know about the Sefardi mesora? Or according to you, the Sefardi mesorah means kullos through the roof and anything goes, chas ve’sholom?Ujm, Germany is a separate story. There the assimilation started much earlier. Yaakov Doe was referring to the Eastern- European Jews who immigrated to the US.
Chiefshmerel, there is also a statue of Symyon Petlura in Kiev. His army did a repeat of the Tach ve’Tat in 1918-1920.
I meant, the north-eastern parts threw off the yoke of the Mongols.
The Ukr. nationalists did not want to be friends with Russia — they hate Russia. Always…, the vote took place in 2014 only in Crimea.
Yea, a Russian troll who reveals to you that it is dangerous to wear a yarmulke in the street in Russia.Always, wrong guess. Try again.
So, in the 13th century, Rus’ was overrun and demolished by the Mongols. Its’ north-eastern part fell under the overlordship of the Golden Horde, a Mongol state, but they were allowed to retain their government structure with a broad autonomy, and the local leaders were dukes descendant from the old Grand Dukes of Kiev. The western parts of Rus’ were divided between Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. They, however, did not retain autonomous government structures and just became parts of the Grand Duchy or colonies of Poland. Eventually, the north-western parts overthrew the yoke of the Mongols and formed an independent Russian state. After Chmelnitskiy, imach shmo, rebelled against the Poles, his people decided to become an autonomous part of Moscow’s Russia, and Russia agreed to defend them against the Poles.Ganza never played a big role there, even though Novgorod was a member of the League. Moscow was a small city/town in the later Kievan Rus’ period. To be continued…
How I came to have such views will have to remain an enigma.Though, I think, you can decipher it if you try.
The answers to the history questions will have to wait till later tonight — I have run now.Always…, I understand that legally Ukraine is a sovereign country. So what business does Russia have getting involved there? However, if you know that originally they were one country for centuries and then again from 1654 till 1991, and that the dukes of Moscow had in the interim always wanted to reunite with the western parts of the original Russia, and that many people in southern and eastern Ukraine want the reunion now, and that they and Russia resent tremendously the anti-Russian brainwashing and falsification of history conducted by Ukrainian nationalists in Ukraine, you start to see the Russia’s view on the situation.
I hesitate to accept Ujm’s praise.
Chiefsmerel, my knowledge of history is based on solid sources.
Always…, on which matter?Actually, Always…, I do not want to reveal too much, but I will tell you that I, for sure, know more about the situation there and the historical background thereof than an average person in the US, Canada or the UK.
I would like to add: FYI — you can not walk in the street in a yarmulke in Russia. In Ukraine it is even worse. Sakonas nefoshes.
If you do not wear anything specifically Jewish, it is okay. Still you have to beware of the regular criminals. Especially, if you are a foreigner who may be presumed to have money, and you are in Ukraine. I am also not sure if being a western guy is popular in Russia these days.“How can you be happy about people walking in the dark…” — Amerikanishe sensibilities and wrong ones at that. They are their enemies. How can you be happy about a person dying? Yet the Shulchan Aruch says that if a rasha dies, you are supposed to be happy about it.
Jackk, how about the Palestinian civilians in Gaza, including children, killed by Israeli bombs?
Those pro-Russian civilians from eastern Ukraine wanted to leave the war zone. Ever thought of it?Cheifshmerel, I almost want to rip my hair out! Lithuania before WWI and controlling Kiev and Odessa no less!?! It was not independent before WWI, and neither was Poland. Kmelnitski was most certainly a Ukrainian! You spin the history by your sheer ignorance of it. Russian was not good to the Jews, but Ukraine was even worse.
Always…, are you aware that many people in southern and Eastern Ukraine do want to join Russia? And there would be more of them in central Ukraine, but the people there were brainwashed after 1991? Russia was spooked by the violent overthrow of the Ukrainian government, by the way.Jackk, more and more fake news! The ones “deported” to Russia wanted to go there (at least, almost all of them). Stop swallowing the propaganda? Graves in Izum? Were those people killed unintemtionally by shelling? Caught in the crossfire?
Chiefshmerel, you words show clearly that you do not have even the most basic knowledge of those countries’ history! What you wrote about Ukraine being a part of Austria and Poland applies only to the Western Ukraine (Galicia). Most of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire. The Ukrainians were worse toward the the Jews than the Russians! Especially when they were independent. Remember Tach ve’Tat massacres? The Petlura pogroms? Most pogroms in the Russian Empire were carried out by Ukrainians in Ukraine. Learn the history!
Always, come on — you do not know the history of those places. Moscow principality was ruled by the direct descendants of the Grand Dukes of Kiev. Why Ukraine was not in charge of Moscow? I can not teach you a full course on the Russian (and Ukrainian) history in the coffee room here. Get yourself a reputable book on the subject and learn it in the bathroom — to avoid bittul Torah.
Ujm, they are distinct from the regular Russians, but are very close to them.
Always, both the principality of Galicia and the principality of Moscow used to be part of the Kievan Rus’.
Always, Ruthenians called themselves “Russini” — extremely close to Russkiye. The Grand duchy of Moscow emerged from the old Rus’. You do not know the history of those places, my freind. Like I said, go learn it. It is an outrageous Polish lie — to claim that the Russian kingdom of Moscow had nothing to do with the old Russia of Kiev.
Overall, the Ukrainians were a majority in eastern Galicia, but not in the cities.
The Ukrainian Catholics were ethnic Ukrainians who because of the centuries of pressure converted.
Stop with your anti-Russian hysteria already.Always…, learn some Russian (and Ukrainian) history, and you will see that your comparison to the Arabs have nothing to do with the facts.
A thousand years ago there existed on the territory of what is now northern and western Ukraine, Belarus and western Russia a country called “Rus'”. Rashi and Tosfos called it Russiya. Nobody beard of Ukraine till many centuries later. Stop with your anti-Russian propaganda.