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WM, I do not think that is silly at all — they want to be free of the yoke of the Kingdom of Heaven ( not nessesarilly in the Jewish definition of it).
Squeak, “all the best minds in the world…”? By far not. From Sir Issak Newton to my college physics professor (and others) concurred.
What i meant was that they want to be materialists. If they admit that the world was created, they will have to investigate who did it. They do not want that. Categorically.
Be’kitsur, WM, do not hock.
Minyan gal, how do people and monkeys have similar dnas? How do people and pigs have similar internal organs (more similar than monkeys and people)?
Charliehall, which theory better explains the facts than the evolution theory? Creationism. But it is not even up for consideration by most modern scientists — that would obligate them to do God’s will. These re’shaim would never agree to that.
Charliehall,1) there are big holes in the evolutionary theory; 2) How do mountinous people have a special gene — siyatta de’Shemaya (there is a gemora in Shabbos about why people who live in certain areas have different features).
Ben Torah, just because one thing is not true does not mean the rest is not either. Do you believe in electricity, computers, nuclear bombs? It is all modern science.
Pashute Yid, according to you, if a fellow believes in everything, but is oyver be’meizid on an issur bein adam le’Mokom, he is also not a rasha?
Most Poskim hold that if somebody was brought up frum, he has seen enough to know better. Some hold that if a tinok she’nishba has lived in a place where there are a lot of frum Yidden etc. for a while, he has seen enough also.
All these se’voros are your own. The Chazon Ish does not differentiate.
Pashute Yid, Chafets Chaim brings at the end of the “Ahavas Chesed” a list of hanhagos of R. Molin. One of them is the shita you mentioned. However, it is clear from the sefer “Chafets Chaim”, that he did not agree with this shita.
In many simonim in the Shulchan Aruch there are halochos about reshoim. None of the commentaries there say that all these halochos do not apply nowdays. Most Poskim do not hold of this far-off shvere kula. According to this shita, all the kofrim, murderers, noafim, thieves etc. can not be treated as reshoim. This is very shvere.
For mw13, look in the mafteyhos in the back of the sefer “Chofets Chaim”, and you’ll find it.
So right, you are not right. Chazon Ish held that not only the “moridin ve’ayn ma’alin…” does not apply but all the halochos of a kofer do not apply. He refused to pater a woman from halitsa when the yevom was off the derech because of his shita that you can not treat him as a mumar. Look in his sefer.
Mw13, even a rasha le’teavon — look in the”Chofets Chaim”.
BTW, abizrayhu and “lo sasuru…” are different issurim.
For the girl who started the thread: I do not think that by watching movies you are oyver on abizrayhu de’gilui arayos. Do not do it, though, for other reasons.
Hatzlocha rabba!
According to the Chazon Ish, all the halochos which deal with mumarim, mechalelei Shabbos and kofrim should be taken out of the Shulchan Aruch.
And what you wrote appears to be a defence of agnosticism.
The sugyos are not mashma like that. The Poskim do not hold like that. Very far off left-wing approach. you can find many shvere shitos. This is one of them. And even if you see n’viim, you can make up excuses.
I did not accuse you of making things up. I actually was trying to ask you to explain your accusation against me.
As far as the Pashuteh Yid goes, he says there hashkofos that you would not hear from Rabbonim. He seems to have his very own set of hashkofos.
Chazon Ish is a shvere da’as yehid. according to him, anybody who does any aveira, even if he was brought up frum, we can not treat him as a rosha. Most poskim disagree. and I was not talking about real tinokos she’nishbu, when I mentioned hating re’shoim.
When and where?
Pashuteh Yid, I am not talking about your self-concieved ideas in this area, I am talking about what the Torah says. And there are me’koros for this in many places.
Squeak, I take offence at your accusation of making things up. I am not. And I have not changed what I was saying here from my first post. I am indeed not sure about a single niddah.
Oomis1105, you are wrong. Chafets Chaim in his sefer says it is a mitsva to hate re’shoim. I understand, in your school they did not tell you that, but that’s what the Torah says.
Squeak, what exactly are you trying to say? Did you learn the sugiya?(I suspect you are a girl).
Going to the mikva removes the status of an erva from her for most men. It is still, probably, not-such-a-nice-thing-to-do for a Bas Yisroel, but technically, pashtus, would not be ossur. however, like I said before, single women should not go to the mikve.
As far as violating the issur of “Lo sasuru aharei eineyhecm…” goes, it is very possible ( I just need to research it more) that she is not allowed to have hirhurim about any man because she is a niddah. For sure, she is not allowed to have hirhurim about forbidden relatives (brother-in-law etc.). But, anyhow, the Shulchan Aruch forbids reading dirty books (kol she ken movies with dirt) because it brings yetser horah on a person.
Hirhur is a separate issur, not “Lo sekarvu”. Negiya derech tayva is “lo sekarvu”.
Moq, if a woman imagines doing an actual aveira with a man to whom she is an erva, she is over on “Lo sosuru aharei einiychem…” (Igros Moshe, Even HaEzer, heilek 1, tshuva 69).
The reason I am not sure is because ther is a lamdishe hiluk between niddah and othe arayos. But I am not sure it makes a difference as far as the issur of hirhur goes.
But, like i said before, there are other problems with watching movies. And, for sure, it is a bigger problem for a boy.
If a woman is single and not a nidda(she went to the mikve), she is an erva only to her relatives. A nephew, a brother-in-law etc. would be included. She is forbidden to to do an a aveira(chas ve’sholom) with a non-relative also, but it is not gilui arayos. However, she is not supposed to go to the mikve.
If she is a niddah, she is an erva to all men. I am not 100% sure about how the issur of hirhur whould apply in this case.
If she is married — any man. If she is single — her nephew, her brother-in-law etc., for sure. If she is a niddah and single (and all our single women, generally, are niddos), any man is an erva to her. But about this last thing I am not sure, if there is an issur of hirhur. Shulchan Aruch, however, forbids reading dirty books as it brings yetser hora on a person.
Gavra, Aharei Levavchem is minus, and there are strict gedorim as to what that is. Period.
Gavra, Aharei levavchem is apikorsus. I don’t think this what we are talking about here.
A hirhur, which is ossur for a woman, is to imagine doing an actual aveira with a man to whom she is an erva. Shulchan Aruch says that it is ossur to read dirty books. Movies are a kol she ken. Hashkofos are also an issue. If there is actual abizrayhu de’gilui arayos involved, I am not sure. It may depend on a number of factors.
Hatslocha rabba!
Pashute Yid, you are wrong. Even if a fellow just holds of an apikorosishe view without doing anything, he is a full-fledged apikoyres. Mefurash in the Gemora and Rambam, and just ask any Rov.
Knowing the Chassidishe hashkofos, the Divrei Chaim, probably, meant that O.Ch. can not be wrong, and that every word he wrote was put into his mouth min ha’Shamaim.
I would venture to say that the Divrei Chaim meant that every word of Ohr HaChaim is emes min HaShamaim. What, that Rebbe from the Cheider meant that O.Ch. did not have s’yatta de’Shemaya? He, probably, meant, that it is not for sure that every pshat there is correct, and D.Chaim thought that everything there is min ha’Shamaim. I don’t think all the other Gedolim would agree with D. Chaim
Charliehall, why did Chazal mandate that a boy see a girl before marrying her? Why did they make a takona to facilitate access to make-up and besomim for Bnos Isroel (end of Meruba in Bava Kama)? I am not saying, however, that looks is the most important criteria — middos and iras Shamaim are.
Caffeine/ Tylenol suppositories are available at 16th Avenue Pharmacy. They are $5 and last all day. As far as the Halachic permissibility- I never knew they existed till my Rav told me about them!
That’s the point, Aries2656: there are limits as to where and whom we are supposed to dan le’kaf z’hus.
Nossond, find out what the Gemora says in Brochos 20A (ma’ase of Mason and 400 zuz).
Aries2756, Not judging anyone is a Christian idea. By the Jews, there are rules of properly judging people, and these are discussed in the seifer “Chofets Chaim”.
Aposhutayid, there are chalochos about if people do aveiros what their status is,Not only Rabbonim know this halochos.
Moq, look for the start at Brochos 20A (ma’ase with Mason, Mason 400 zuz). Also, you, probably, meant to leave out the capital punishment out of the discussion, not the corporeal one. There is no question that had such a pirtsa occurred in times of Chazal, they would have whipped a bunch of these ladies, and that would have been the end of the pirtsa. And stop defending the ba’alei aveira and creating an atmosphere that it is not so bad what they are doing. There is no clarity, you say? About what? That the women are obligated to cover their knees?!?
Aries2756, is someone, who believes in the Torah, but eats treif frum? Chazal call such a person a “mumar”.
SJSinNYC, Chazal do not agree with you.
Tziporra, see my post above.
Kasha, where in the world there is such a Chazon Ish? ( I do not believe there is.)
SJSinNYC, Oomis and others, do not worry. The gemorah in Taanis clearly implies that that was wrong and extreme reaction. Moreover, gemora in Taanis 13B and in the end of 1-st perek of Kidushin is clear that a shiduch-age girl should dress nicely ( but, of course, tsniusdic — no short skirts).
Ayshes Chayil, it is enough to accidently see something for a split second, and it will produce a negative effect. Since you are an ayshes, you don’t hop it.
If we had batei-dinim that had real power, the problem would be easily solved. they would catch a couple of these t’snius-challenged women and give them lashes. Tho OTDs would be dealt with even more harshly. And everything would be fine thereafter.
SJSinNYC, stop coming up with all the unfounded excuses.
A question to all those who say that applying pressure would back-fire: do you really think that all those women and girls, who of lately have been violating the halochos of ts’nius, are that rotten? I thought better of them.
Soft words and “teaching about the beauty of…” do not help some people, pressure may. But it is true, that it is very important to differentiate between Halacha and sensetivities (such as wearing high heels etc.).