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MiddlePath, what you are saying is a big chidush, and I do not know if I agree with it.
MiddlePath, that song is wrong — a Ba’al teshuva has to have regret.
Zahavasdad and Oomis, I am sorry, but you are so wrong. touching an erva with intention of getting pleasure is a lav min’HaTorah and is a yehareg ve’lo yavor. It is worse than issur of treif or basar be’chalav which are just regular lavim.
I would say that issur of touching a nidda be’zman ha’ze is not literally “die but don’t do it” (I am not disclosing the reason), but when it comes to a married woman or other arayos it is.
Flowers, not everybody is as smart and as aware as you are. It is clear from the threads that certain women do not know certain things. And ,again , they are not talking to anybody “face to face”.
Moderator, please, close this one.
Delivering babies is worse and that I hear more. T”M and Tsnius — I also hear, but sometimes there is no effective alternative.
“Ashrei mi she’lo chata…” (Gemora Sukka)
Flowers, and do you also not hold of Rabbonim dealing with Taharas Mishpacha shailos?
Flowers, I also gave her some definite answers, didn’t I? Also, the men know the Halochic gedorim better and how certain things look in the eyes of men. Wny not ask a Rov? Some are embarrassed to do it.
Flowers, those adult females might not know themselves.
Another name, we are not talking about Halocha mamesh. We were talking about if certain things have bad effect tsnius-wise.
It is not that simple that the WWII would have had a different outcome if the US had stayed neutral. The real brunt of the fighting against the Nazis was born by the USSR. It is not clear, though, if the Russians would have been able to finish off the Nazis by themselves.
Pun intended, I suppose.
Flowers, WIY said “it appears” to be non-tsniusdic.
I agree with Yichusdik and WIY. CR is a good way to explain certain things to certain people. Real Brisker, and why is it o.k. for a Rov to do it while facing actual women? CR is better.
It is muttar.
If it is in public, you are to cut her short. What is considered in public? I think 3 people is. Double-check, however, as it might be 10.
Da’as Yochid. the Shulchan Aruch does not pasken like Kiddushin 82. Look in O. Ch. 156. Achronim explain that Kiddushin 82 was meant for yechidei segula.
Realsticguy, you have a misconception. Gedolei Torah, great Talmidei Chachomim of previous generations spent years in full-time learning to become what they were. It is stated in Early Achronim that had all potential Talmidei Chachomim had not been able to get financial support to learn and had to work, all Torah would have been forgotten from Klal Yisroel (c^v). It is plainly obvious that to become a real Talmid Chocham you need years of full time study (I don’t mean people who get s’micha for Basar be’Cholov and Ta’aruvos).
Chofets Chaim spent little time in his store(his wife did). And in his young years — I think, none.
Oomis, to become a big Talmud Chocham, one needs to learn full time for many years. I agree, however, that you can not have everybody do it — for financial reasons, and most boys are not cut out for it.
Charliehall , it is unnatural and disgusting.
Zahavasdad, people would.
Gavra-at-work, you are so mistaken. It is definitely assur for girls min’HaTorah. There is no malkus, however, as it is a lav she’be’klalus.
To get married for girls civilly (without doing anything) would be a major Chilul Shem Shamaim.
What do you need to know?
You must explain your actions to avoid Chilul HaShem, if you are viewed as a Rabbi, a “frum one” etc.
Individual, they are not wrong. Rashi over there in Shabbos makes a distinction between married women and single ones.
Minyan gal, the problem is when married women are seen by strange men when the said women are dressed up too much.
The lady who calls herself “hudi”, that’s not a problem. A lot of blush, bright red lipstick, excessive eye make-up are problems.
Mod.-80, suggesting someone is not a real charedi is another way of saying “they do not have Yiras Shamaim”(at least, in those circles) and posseling a person. And it is wrong to do that, unless they violated real issurim!
Apushatayid, what you are saying is ridiculous. You can not avoid seeing them entering /exiting the hall or in the hallways, etc. The answer is: women should not be dressed up so much.
Not exactly within the confines of Halocha. It is clear from Pesukim in the begining of Yishaya and relevant Gemora in Shabbos with Rashi there that a married woman should not appear in public overly ” mekushetes”. It is just difficult to have the exact gedorim of what is “too much”. Some of the women out there are clearly in the “too much” range. Especially, at simchos.
Da’as Yochid, the Gemora is talking about a very serious age difference. Mestama, at the very least — 17-20 years.
I did not get the part about the pants.
R’ Moshe did not say you should not machmir. Plus, he was not the only Posek out there.
Anon1mous, restaurants? Not a bad idea(again, espec. because of the way some women are dressed). At home? Depends.
Yichusdik, they went on a “machol” — dancing in circles(look in Rashi there). That type of dancing might not be assur to watch. Real “rikud” is, as far as I understand.Plus,in addition, those girls were single and non-niddos.
Secondly, I did not say it’s obligatory to have a mechitza for eating. It is a good chumra, especially, because of the way many women dress — namely, dressed to kill. Look at the beginning of Yishaya and in the relevant Gemora in Shabbos to see what Chazal had to say about it.
Zeeskite, i think you take it too far.It is clear from the Gemora that they were makpid on looks.
On Tu be’Av, they walked around in circles and did not realy dance.
Even though it may be only a middas hassidus to have a mechitza for eating, it is a very good and necessary chumra — because of the way a lot of women dress. Namely, they are dressed to kill. Even if it were not the case, it would be good to have it — “kol makom she’ata motze geder erva, ata motze kedusha”.
Apashutayid, maybe, they should be allowed to walk around in bikinis and men just should not look? Why do you defend assias aveiros?
And I do take offence at your sarcastic insults.
Making a joke out of violating issurim is leitzanus.
Mike, did you check out the definition of leitzanus?
Apashutyid, you would not, and I would.
Having read a lot of the posts here — talk about “leitzanus echad doche mea tochechos”.
Mike, the obligation for the women is to have their knees covered at all times. Period.
And for the (n+1)-th time, even if one is careful with shmiras ha’einaim, one can still accidentally see inadequately-covered women. Therefore, they have to be dreesed properly at all times.
Shev143, for the n-th time, even if one is careful about shmiras ha’einaim, it is possible to see things unintentionally for a split second — and it’s already a problem.
Mike, even if one sees something inappropriate accidentaly for a split second, it is already a problem.
Mike, also check what the definition of leitzanus is!
And in times of Beis HaMikdash, a man-Cohen would take off sota’s(r’l) head-gear and rip her dress! Ponder this, Michael12382.
People, who think it’s a non-issue, should get some Yiras Shamaim. And again, one does not have to look for it — one can just happen to see it.
Okay then, i am sorry, it is not o.k. Wear a longer skirt! It is assur to be not-tsniusdik. You must do whatever it takes. If you are in a place where it’s difficult to get kosher food, so what do you do? Eat treif? Pritzus is also assur.
HaLeivi, length makes a difference!!
Minyan gal, with a really long skirt, there would not be problems.
Real-brisker, according to you, the women do not have to dress tsniusdik(chas ve’sholom)!! And one notices this matzav automatically, without specifically looking for it. The answer is:
1) women have to realize that they are seen while getting into cars and while inside;
2) they should wear clothing which covers them properly.
He is right, though.
Off hand,without double-checking, a mishna in the 1-st perek of Kesuvos, but it’s mentioned in many places. First of all, it has to do with the phychological, emotional make-up of men. Secondly, Gemora says that if a man marries a besula, she tends to have a stronger bond with her husband than a non-besula.