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Rikki, you are wrong. And yichud is not negia.
Oomis, you are not a Rov. Negia is yehareg ve’lo’yavor. I would not say it when it comes to Niddos be’zman haze, but other arayos are definitely in that category. It is an open Halocha in Yore Deya.
Chalilavchas, yes.
Sam2, a real tinok she’nishba is not a rasha. He is like a regular frum Yid as far as ben le’chaveiro goes. Who is a real tinok she’nishba is a machlokes.
Ronsr, all this sentiments about “any Jew” are against Halocha. If a fellow is deemed to be a rasha, he is is not buried next to tzadikkim. It is a de”Oraysa to bury harugei beis din in separate cemeteries, for example.
Cleverjewishpun, what do you mean by “the hardline/extreme positions” of the Rambam?
EzratHaShem, the example of the rich drop-outs is not a good example. You can just hope to somehow strike it rich.
Yitay, yasher koach!
old man, you may not just go and pick one Achron and start being meikal like him when others argue, unless you are a Rov and you learnt the sugya and you hold like him.
Health, I did not expect you to agree either. It is abundantly clear from all the Rambams what he would pasken. To create a whole shita, which is so anti-Torah, out of your experience with your former wife is evil!You think Rambam would say “don’t do Kiruv??
Frei Yidden are not Goyim. By Goyim, we do not try to influence them to become Geirim. By frei Yidden, who are mechuyav in all mitsvos, it is different.
Health, the reason Rambam says “rauy” is because we are talking about people who were brought up in non-Torah views and are entrenched in them. Therefore, it is not possible to obligate us to sit with people, who may strongly reject our opinion, laugh in our faces etc., and talk to them till we are blue in the face about our way. It is obvious though that if we could influence them, that’s what we should do. As the Klal Yisroel is responsible even to force the Umos (if we have the power) to follow the 7 Mitsvos as Rambam writes in Hilchos Melochim (8:10), and kal ve’ckomer — Yidden. Eliyahu HaNavi brought a korban ba’chuts to accomplish this (which is otherwise a chiyuv kores)!. Divrei Rambam have nothing to do with your totaly wrong opinions, which no sane Rov would agree to.
Health, and creating ill-will, that you and the like-minded individuals create by their statements against BTs, is also nothing?
Health, if they are tinokos she’nishbu, they are “Achicha” and “Reyacha”. If they are not , what’s with ” the exuse of being tinokos she’nishbu” that you mentioned?
Health, you started it by spewing the preposterous slander against the BT and making monstrous, diabolic suggestions that we should not mekarev people.
Health, I do not , chas ve’sholom, hate the FFBs. I do ,however, have ta’anos on those FFBs, who for no valid reason dislike or do not treat the BTs well. That’s what the consequences of an aviera are, in addition to the aviera itself — they have people upset at them.
I just would like to remind the olam here why Health is so adamant that is only(sic!) a Mitsva (in his opinion) to mekarev frei Yidden and not a Chiyuv. It is because he thinks that much less Kiruv should be done. Those few that are being brought closer should undergo special screening. Afterwards, they are going to be told who be allowed(sic!) to be frum and who should stay frei!!!! Just how preposterous, outrageous, anti-Torah his suggestion is!!
If a frei Yid is a tinok she’nishba, he is an “Achicha” and a “Reyecha”. If he is a mumar, then he is not. And I certainly did learn the sugya.
BTGuy, if a frei Yid is a Tinok sne’nishba(which depends on the case), he is totaly like any frum person for all Halochos. To lose one’s status, one has to knowingly transgress some big issurim.
Health, Rav Kamenetzky mentioned our being judged for not doing kiruv. He is a responsible Rosh Yeshiva, and you do not say such things unless there is a chiyuv. It is such a big thing that Eliyahu Ha’Navi brought a korban ba’chutz at the time of issur bamos to bring back wayward Jews. I am not going to respond anymore to your lack of Ahavas Yisroel-driven opinion.
M in Israel, you missed a major part in definition of Chilul HaShem. If a choshuve person does something which even appears to be wrong, and it becomes known, and people look down on it, it is a Chilul HaShem. The same applies to a frum Yid in front of Goyim or frei Yidden. It causes a lessening of Kovod Shamayim because people expect a level of perfection from a choshuve person/frume Yid.
PBA, it is obvious, and I also heard so from my Rosh Yeshiva that if the Torah says that a certain thing is a mitsva, it is within reach of every Jew to do it.
Cinderella, you do not need to tell her you are not perfect!
PBA, you are so wrong. If it says that you are not allowed to eat treif, it means you must never eat treif. if you do , you are judged for it. If you did it knowingly ,you are considered a rasha until you do teshuva. The same applies to all other issurim!
M in Israel, why is it Chilul HaShem for a Rabbi to be caught doing something wrong? He just has his struggles. So, sometimes he steales or engages in immorality. What’s the ta’ana?
Popa-bar-Abba, what do you mean?
To the OP, it is not good, very not good for her to hear you preach one way and act a different way.
Yitay, you are wrong. We are expected to keep all Mitsvos according to Halocha. Not just try our best.
Health, according to others, if you think it is going to work, you must. According to Rabbi Tatz, is ther still a mitsva? Why were n’viei Yisroel rebuking the avodah zorah serving Jews, during the first Beis Hamikdash?
For you Health, I have a story.
Rabbi Avigdor Miller said on a tape that there exists a problem nowdays. A Yid becomes a Ba’al Teshuva, his heart burns to serve HaShem. Then, he enters a frum community and the FFBs who are not medakdek be’mitsvos cool him off. Ad kan divrei HaRav Miller ztz”l.
A disclaimer: by no means do I mean to say that all FFBs do not medakdek be’mitsvos, chas ve’sholom.
Health, le’gabi all Halochos , a tinok she’nishba is regular Yid.
Health, you are in a mixed-up and lacking in ahavas Yisroel world. You did not give straight answers to my questions. Your accusations about BTs are false. According to Halocha, if a feloow does aveiros because his Rebbe was mean to him, even though there is a tzad ze’chus, he is still considered a rasha. If a fellow is a tinok sne’nishba, he is bechlal Amisacha. Even if someone is not a tinok she’nishba, you seem to cut much more slack for BBF-reshaim. Why is that?
Plus, according to what you want, how things should go? If a Yid wants to become frum ,he should submit his application along with 10 letters of reccomendation to some commitee. The comitee will decide whether to allow him in or tell him to stay frei.
I understand you had problems with your wife.Do not let that cloud your judgement.
Speak to a Rov about your shittos. I doubt if I should respond to your twisted shittos anymore. We have written enough for anybody to see. The fallacy of your views and the lack of Ahavas Yisroel, that is. BTW, Chofets Chaim has a sefer under that name too.
Plus, if an FFB goes past a certain point, even if he is not doing it out of what you think is rishus, but because of problems(which al pi Haloch is still rishus), he is no longer beklal amisecha.
So if a guy is generally speaking frum, but is dishonest in business or looks at funny pictures, he should be driven off the derech in gantzen??
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If a fellow is a tinok snenisba he’is beklal amisecha. From everything I learnt or heard Gedolim and Rabbonim speak and pasken — they hold like me.
Plus, I did not get it, so you support driving off the derech and out of town FFBs, who are reshoim?
Health, again: there is no difference in your obligation to help a stumbling Yid from a frum family and a stymbling Yid from a frei family. If anything, the stumbling FFB is worse. He should have known better.
Like I said:” FIND ME A ROV WHO WOULD AGREE WITH YOU!
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Without conditions, Health. Even if there is a frei Yid, whom you can not make totaly frum, but you can convince him to fast on Yom Kippur and not eat chomets on Pesach, you have to do it. Mitsvos are a chiyuv for anybody born a Jew. Find me a Rov who would agree with your opinion.
And what do you suggest we do with FFBs who are not ehrlach and create problems? Make them OTD in gantzn and expel them from the community? What you are saying is so totaly off!
Mustangrider, Rambam writes that that Mishna in Makkos about executing people only randomly is meant to impress upon the Da’yanim the obligation to be careful in paskening, but, if need be, they can execute 100 people a day.
They both have valid and invalid points. However, this whole “live and let live” attitude is totaly posul. You can say we can not be moche, but not what Halbertal said.
Health, there is no exclusive “frum club”. It is absolutely our obligation to have as many Jews keeping as many mitsvos as possible. Find me a Rov who would say otherwise.
Health How about some eiyn tovah?? Those BTs who are strict with their children are trying to do the right thing and, be’etzem, they are right. It just the dor is not fit for it. They should not be looked down on.
According to you, there should not be any kiruv.
Health, here you go with your outrageous statements again. We once gave you over the head for this.
And what about the kids? They were brought up frum!It might be that their sicere BT parents sometimes pressure them more then today’s children could accept.
Do not listen to Health. It depends on why a person became frum. If it is due to growth in Emuna and Yiras Shamaim, Health’s allegation does not apply. On the other hand, if someone became a BT because he/she thought it is a lot of fun to be frum etc., then — it might be a concern.
I second Mod.80.
PY, do not just try to kasher anybody and everybody by hook or by crook.
Pashute Yid, look above what I wrote to you about Kabbola. Indeed, anyone who takes literally “that a neshoma is a chelek Eloka Memal” is an apikores.
Pashute Yid, even if they came out with crosses on their necks,you would still say “it is okay”.
Pashute Yid, denail is not a place in Egypt.
Moderator 80, Yasher Koach.
Sam2, fighting against avodah zorah is not sinas chinom.
Jothar, saying he is alive does not imply he is divine.Stop it already.
Moderator 80, some of them definetely do.
Sam2,Gemora says that Daniel could be Moshiach, and it was not universally rejected as the “already ate it” shitta was.
Pashute Yid, you are so off!!! The reason why Christianity is avodah zorah and “yehareg ve’lo’ya’avor” is because they hold that oso Ish is a part of G-d! (and not becuase they do not keep all the mitsvos)
Mod.80, to believe that the Rebbe is a part of G-d is totally Christianity(the concept of Trinity)
Cherrybim, Gemora says openly that a dead man could be Moshiach.
Pashute Yid, the views on apikorsus that you bring up are very shvere da’as yochid shittos.
Jothar, you are wrong, it is a mitsva to hate real apikorsim.
Pashute Yid, al pi Torah, you can not just say:”oh, he’s a nice guy, does different mitsvos, so let’s close our eyes to his avoada zorah problem.”.