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Oomis, only krisos of arayos are included in “yehareg ve’lo ya’avor”.
Oomis, ther is a difference between an obligation to be “rather killed than transgress” and the post-factum chiyuv misa.
Chevrah, the Rambam does not say that someone who believes in it is an apikores with all that that implies. He just says that it is an apikorsus shittah. The person could be a shogeg. The Ra’avad comments that many “gedolim and tovim”, nebach, by mistake believed so. That’s the gantze zach.
I think Rambam never meant it like that.
The problem is that many people do not want to recognize that there could be out there people more perfect than they themselves are — tzadikim and gedolim. They want everybody to be “human” — namely, with serious chesronos. And who said that everyone is entitled to grow up to be a godol? There is a medrash which says that before Shmuel Ha’Novi was born it was known that a great gadol was going to be born and his name was going to be Shmuel. So people would name kids Shmuel. After others would see a new Shmuel act, they would say:”this is not the one”. Untill the real Shmuel was born, and everybody saw on him that he is the real one. Get the point??
Bubka, it sounds from your post that there can not be such a thing as a tinok she’nishba.
Yehudayona, I did not say it was ossur — I said it’s a good thing to have separate sitting. At Shabbos meals at home, it’s more difficult to have serarate sitting for a number of reasons. Plus, the women tend to show up there not as dressed up. However, I have been to Shabbos/Yom Tov meals where I felt uncomfortable because of the presence of overly fancy ladies.
And, yes, it is not tznius for married women to be dressed-to-kill.
Bubka, you got it wrong. In a nutshell: Rambam agrees that there is such a thing as tinok she’nishba. A nebach apikores is someone who was not raised frum and who was later exposed to Yiddishkeit, but he still maintains his apikoyrosish shittos.
Oomis, I mentioned bochurim as that would be the worst case scenario. Married men next to other people’s wives is also not good. And, for sure, you could have bochurim (or married men)sitting at the next table, in which case all those dressed-to-kill women would be sitting within their view for the entire seudah.
Oomis, about the dikduk — you are right. Just most people talk that way, so sometimes I do also.
As to the matter at hand, what do you mean when was the last time I saw that? If it is a mixed sitting wedding that could happen.
As far as staring goes, it does not have to be intentional to make the wrong effect. I do not intentionally stare at women, yet sitting next to or across the table from dressed-to-kill women would have negative consequences for me. It would still hold true if they were to sit at a next table or couple of tables away.
If all women showed up dressed “no frills, no sheitels (snoods, instead)”, there would be less reason for separate sitting. even then, it still would be a ma’alah.
Feif Un, a one-to-one yichud with an ervah is min ha’Torah.
Frif Un, “al tarbeh sichah im ha’ishah” is from Chazal.
Oomis1105, what about a man (especially, a bochur) sitting next to other people’s wifes who are very or very,very mekushat (fancy sheitels, lots of make-up, fancy outfits etc.)?
Yitay, do not be lazy — look up the sourses.
Feif Un and Halttheman, why should not women be allowed to wear bathing suits in public? What are we afraid of?
Imaofthree, you are right. Unless the woman is mochel.
Even without the issue of dancing, it is still a ma’alah to have separate sitting. Especially, taking into account how dressed up and covered with make-up most women are.
Sam2, where does he say it? Plus, according to you, it’s only if she does not do what she must do. It is no different from beis-din punishing somebody for not doing his duty.
It is openly stated in the Rambam that a Jewish wife is to obey her husband (with certain limitations). Zeeskite, we are in the after Odam ha’Rishon’s chet matzav — that’s the difference.
Btw, disregard PBA’s and company’s advice — one has the right to know.
Ask a Rov before you do anything. I would imagine it would be muttar to reveal info about his learning level. About his behavior also — unless people tell you he’s changed. About the broken engagement — depends if they say it was his fault. Again,ask a shailah befor you say something.
Iced, my point is that with one mother and her child where they would get infected from? However, when many people are involved…
Besides, every surgical procedure in a hospital is required to have all the precautions. Not so is nursing. Again, you are just damaging your credibility with this type of arguments.
PBA, on the other hand,if someone goes and sucks wounds by people, there could be cases of reshaim who have machalos becuse of their aveiros. Get it?
How many kids does a mother nurse, PBA? Calm down, will you?
Iced, I propose banning fanatics as they have already caused enough damage to the G-d’s cause. For example, their behavior has driven a lot of people off the derech.
PBA and Iced, please, the mother nurses only her child. She does not go around nursing tons of babies. Plus, an open wound is different. Stop with the ridiculous arguments just to defend the cause. You lose credibility and turn people off that way!
Re: the propaganda piece about nursing. Nursing is not done from an open wound!
PBA, WIY and the rest, stop with the propaganda. What makes someone into a Talmid Chocham and a Gadol? Saying the shittos you like? Having some am’aratzim brainwashed into thinking that someone is a Gadol even if, sometimes, the person in question is not even a Talmid Chocham? Trust there were big Rabbis (Gedolim) who wrote shittos that you would not like.
Bubka, the Torah specifies the amount of knas(fine) paid to a na’ara’s father. That is in additon to any compensation for nezek(damage), tza’ar(pain), boyshes(embarrassment), sheves(being out of work, if applicable) and ripuy(medical bills, if applicable) that any single woman would be entitled to (c’v,it should not happen).
A single woman can hit her assailer with a lawsuit in beis din for a very large compensation. Rabbi Akiva obligated someone to pay 400 zuz(2 times the poverty line yearly salary at the time) for taking off a lady’s teichel in piblic, how much more so he would award an assault victim. Plus, he is probably deserving of a stricter punishment, but Torah had mercy on daman shel Isroel.A non-Isroel would be chayav misa. Plus, as the Englishman wrote there is an issue of very severe emotional pain inflicted for which he needs to get forgiveness.
Rashi’s description of animal anatomy in a certain place in Chullin also does shtim with metzios. Morris and WYI, do you have anything to say?
Vochindick, we know Rav Moshe held like that, the question is that it’s shvere.
Harotze…, sometimes the kashah from an ofene Gemorah is very,very shtark!Get it?!?
Harotze, don’t you think that Rav Kook and Rav J. B. Soloveitchick knew all of Shas. So how can anybody hold not like them? Think about it!
Harotze…, again, as was pointed out by RoB, no one ever provided a satisfactory p’shat as to why those Gemoros no longer apply!
Yeah, vochindik, simply dismiss Rav J.B.Soloveitchik. Again, I do not know what he really said there.
Sam2, if he did look, he would be possul, at least, de’rabbonon.
Harotze…, do you suggest they get all frum Jews in France on welfare in order to be in kollel the way it is in Israel? You think the French are going to put up with that??!!?
Also, Harotze…, the Israeli Chareidim hold that being in kollel is an absolute chiyuv for every seriously religious Jew.
Plus, I do not know what the Rav actually said there. However, even if he said what is claimed he said…
Harotze…. stop dreing the th kup, will you. The Shulchan Aruch in O.Ch. 156 paskens that people must work. Biur Halocha says it means min ha’stam unless one has an al pi teva another source of income or one is from the yehidey segulah.
Toi and Harotze…, Rav Kook and Rav J.B. Soloveitchik both knew kol ha’Torah kulah, yet you would not follow them at all. Do you see a double standard here?
Sam2, is it that bad down there?
WIY, you quoted an opinion of a Ba’al Musar. Strictly speaking, though, dying al Kiddush HaShem is greater. Chofets Chaim wrote that a poshute Yid who agrees to it and gets killed gets the same place in Olam HaBah as one of the Gaonei ha’Dor.
Mogold, Feif Un did not belittle the Satmar Rebbe. He just said the credit is not due to him here. The point is that US is different from Poland, Ukraine and Russia.
The Chassidishe Gatesheader, in Switzerland, they, for sure, look at Yidden with great hostility. What about the ethnic French? They would not attack Yidden?
THC, in Russia, Ukraine and, I think, Poland it is different.
Shein, it is much more antisemitic there. In addition, in some countries locals stam azoi do not like when someone looks different, let alone Jewish. There is a reason why Rav Ch. Volozhiner said that America is going to be the last “stanzia” for Klal Yisroel before Moshiach. There is also a reason why Zionists enjoed such strong support among European Jews, especially in Eastern Europe.
Mammele,there are certain things which are a chumrah mi’tzad zeh, but a kulah mi’tzad acher. And the Chassidim are generaly very machmir on a whole number of things.
Sam2,that’s approxim. what I meant.
Mamele, Poskim, at times, critisize minhagim despite the fact that they are Yiddishe minhagim. I think this one is an extreme one. Most men are not on the madreigah to put up with it. It was especially true in the era of shvach sheitels. And even though the Chasam Sofer did not condemn it, I remain with my opinin. The Chazal were very concerned with the wife’s appearance in the eyes of her husband.
Who decided how much hair is too much? It is either nothing or any length.