Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Kiryas Yoelite, I hear.
Ladies, I am sure you do not mean it, chalilah, but it is like wearing a beis bushah uniform. It is like wearing a t-shirt with an avidah zorah temple on it. Support the the army in other ways.
Health, Ben Gurion agreed because there were only 400 of them then.
I think it is a problem. I am not going into the reasons (at least, for now).
Ben Levi, Gemorah in perek Ha’Orel (Yevamos) says that Dovid Ha’Melech executed Shoul Ha’Melech’s relatives because of a somewhat far-off chashash of Chillul HaShem. Did he c^v have a split identity or was c^v obsessed?
Satmar should be refunded? Maybe all the foreigners who come there also should be refunded? And I did not mean to say that the Chareidi tourism brings in enough money to support all the wellfare there. I meant it does not bring enough to support all the Chareidim there. Most of whom do not and would not work.
Ben Levi, your arguments are below any standard!
Ben Levi, why is it a problem if a Ben Torah acts rudely? Who cares what anybody thinks? Right?
Ben Levi, I am not talking about Brisk, Satmar and NK — they are a small minority.
I do not have an obsession. The Torah is very concerned about Chilul HaShem! How can you say otherwise?!?
Kanoi, theconflict was brought by the creation of the Medinah, but so was the flow of cash to the Yeshivos. It is very crooked to accept and use only those aspects of the Medinah that are beneficial.
I am advocating the Israeli Chareidim start worrying about how their actions look in the eyes of outsiders. Chilul HaShem is a very big avierah.
Ben Levi, and had there been an Arab state instead of the Medinah, do you for a second think they would pay for all the Chareidim to stay in kollel?
And working chutznik Chareidi tourists do not generate enough money to support all the Israeli Chareidim. Come on!
Kanoi, and if the Chareidim do not hold of them, they should not insist on living off them!
Da’as Yochid, the Israeli wellfare system exists for altruistic reasons. They just do not want to support all the Chareidim in kollel anymore. Even the “evil” Yochanan Plesner suggested 20% of talmidim get exemptions.
Shmoel-Joe, 1. A) An Israeli Chareidi in kollel gets much more money (after counting everything) from the Medinah than a college student; B) A college student is there for 4-6 years, a Chareidi is in kollel for live.
2. US, UK and France also could have been nuked during the Cold war.
3. A) Many of the American Gedolim would have paskened like I say if they were in charge there; B) There are ma’ases in Chazal in which people got punished for not rebuking Gedolim when they were doing something wrong. For starters, Avodah Zorah 18A. And Rabi Chanina was not even doing something which was befeirush ossur. His wife was chayav misa for not stopping him.
Akuperma, Israel has the fifth-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. You can as well discuss abolishing France or UK. It is not 1930 anymore? Do you hear me?
Ben Levi, yea, the Chilonim know nothing about Chesed. Just one example, they have been fully supporting all the Israeli Chareidim on welfare for decades!!
Derech HaMelech and Joe-Shmoel, it is a beferushe Taz in Hilchos Talmud Torah. It should be around 242 in Y.D. He says that it is Chilul HaShem for a talmud chochom to demand money for his support. Besides, it is 100% obvious. It is not to you and your ilk, but then I have nothing to say to you (at least, on this forum).I hope you learn your lesson the easy way.I rest my case.
Ben Levi, stop with the boba mayses, they would not have been able to stop the Zionists. Besides, the latter agreed to exempt and, maybe, support 400 yungerleit, not tens of thousands! Get it through your heads: it is not an inborn right of every Israeli Chareidi to be supported in kollel forever by the Israeli taxpayers! The frei hate the Chareidim, and, at this point, I do not 100% blame them — the Chareidim, partially, brought it on themselves.
Dveykus, did Rav Kook and Rav Y.B. Soloveitchik know kol ha’Torah kulah? Would you accept everything they said?
Shmoel, as I explained that would aplly to us putting on teffilin. However, when they have a fair and reasonable ta’anah (which is even valid according to Halochah), we have to be worried about it.
Akuperma, we are talking reality here, not Brisker-inspired fantasies.
Derech HaMelech and Josef, I do agree that Torah is a very great zechus, but what about the Chilul HaShem shailah which I posed and explained before? Will you answer?
Chevra, some reshoim (I am not saying PBA is) are not to be treated with respect according to the Torah. There are Halochos about it.
PBA, drei nit ken kup! If 10% of US population were Yeshivah students nobody would exempt all of them. Also. if they were all on wellfare, what would happen?!? Stop twisting things!
Daas Yochid, you argument is — they could go to Nachal Chareidi.
Avhaben, get back from the dream land. They are the majority who make the money and they feed the Chareidim.
I am a BT. Before I became frum and even after, I used to think highly of the frum E.Yisroeldike. I no longer do.
Derech HaMelech ,but in this case they are right according to Halochah — they don’t have to support all those people. As far as having children on wellfare — you are wrong. It would be Chilul HaShem. If the Goyim or the frei have a fair and reasonable ta’anah — you have to worry about it. It is the Eretz Yisroeldike with their farfrumed negiyos that are blinded. So you think, those kollel people would be right to go and occupy the gevirim houses till they get more money?
Also, Daas Yochid, you did not get my first point. Those people in Lita also wanted to learn. It is just that the Russian government would not pay their bills for them.
Da’as Yichid, pumping money out of people to support yourself in learning full time when those people strongly object is Chilul HaShem. Imgine, some gevirim support a kollel. Then, they say that they want to cut down on their donations. The kollel members then go to the gevirim houses and say they’re staying there till they give them more money. Any Chilul HaShem there? Some people are trying to be intentionally dense because of their frume negioyos.
DM, wake up and smell and the cofee!! The reason why all those Chareidim are able to stay in learning is because their bills are paid for by the Israeli taxpayers. The latter do not want to do it anymore and resent the Chareidim twisting their arm into it.
And very much so (they resent it). Derech HaMelech, any comment now? Do you think there may be a shailah of Chillul HaShem ??
Avhaben and KB, how about an answer to my question?
I moche on the unacceptable thread name and the PBA’s very inappropriate coments!
Avhaben, 200 years ago in Lita,did all adult men exercise “their right” to sit and learn or no? If no (and it is “no”), why not?
Downandin, this type of behavior is normal for boys — Chassidish or Litvish, Jewish or non-Jewish.
Joe, I am at a loss as to the right method to fix you. Btw, this is what I wrote — people need to ask their own shailos. Did you miss it?
Loyal Jew, last year they had a haskomo from one of the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva.
Besides, they are just offering jobs to people. Individuals need to ask their own shailos.
They usually have a small variety of commision-based jobs available. If you are interested…
Shmendric, divrei Achronim and Rishonim contain statements where one Godol says another one made a mistake.
Shmoel, it says as much in Chassidishe seforim.
Astrix, Gra was a bigger talmud chocham than BeShT.
Cangetit, –indeed, you seem not to get it. The Chareidim there live off the government of Israel when most Israelis resent it. It is a HUGE Chillul HaShem!
Akuperma, listen: 1) There are not enough jobs available at Yeshivos. Besides, Yeshivos do not make money. They live on donations. In Israel, a large part of them come from the Israeli government.
2) To start a business one needs money- a starting capital. The Israeli Chareidim don’t have them. Besides, it is quite an unstable way of making money – business can easily go up or down.
Let’s face the reality!
Derech HaMelech, that is not what happened there.
Akuperma, disprogram yourself, please, from the Brisker shitah which you take almost ad absurdum. Where do you suggest the Chareidim get parnosah, for crying out loud?
Akuperma, I suggest they move to the Moon.
Derech HaMelech, look in S.A. Or.Ch. 156! How do you think chareidim should get parnosa? By living off others be’shitah?!? What a Chilul HaShem!!! Do you think 200 years ago no frum Yidden worked? What a ziyuf HaTorah!
Joe, not as far as you think.
I agree — it is outrageous.
Rabbi Horowitz is a Rov? Nowdays everybody is a Rabbi.
Herr Toi, Yiddish is a dialect of the German language and is readily understood by any German. Any awesomeness of Yiddish is actually awesomeness of German. All this adulation of Yiddish is based on thin air!
Toi, please, elaborate.
Wolf, I am sorry. I just noticed that you do not mind calling yourself much worse names on this forum. So I figured you would not mind being called what I called you. If you really took offence, I apologize.
Toi, are you orginazing a German culture club?
Wolf, sorry, but you are indeed an am ha’oretz. It is a befeirushe Halochah in Hilchos L.H. that you may not believe it but may exercise caution.
Artchill, being convicted in a secular court of law on a testimony of the alleged victim is zero in Halochah. There is an issue of believing loshon horah also.
Loyal Jew(Joe), the first question is if all American parents are willing to exchange their US standard of living for the Polish one to keep everybody in kollel. Secondly, that helps only the first generation. When even the zeides are kollel yungerleit (the following dor), there is nothing to cut or double-morgage anymore. Get it?
I think they overdid it and they had bad intentions in doing so.
JayMatt19, it is in Yeshaya, around perek 3. Gemorah in Shabbos, perek “Be’ma ha’ishah…”, elaborates further.
Sam2, there is a difference between the Dmus Ha’Odom al ha’kise from ma’ase merkavah and HKB”H himself. We are not going to go into deep Kabolah here, but you have to know about these things when discussing these matters.
Btw, I did not see anything in that Rashi in Avos.