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EY Mom, according to you E.Y. is not different from US as far as staying in kollel goes. That’s a big chiddush.
Lit.K.J., Israelis help Kollel people? I thought you’d claim they rob them.
Zahavasdad, appartments they buy on money collected from the chutz la’Oretz Chareidim.
Akuperma, What in the world…?
WIY, somebody born, raised and living in the Soviet Union was a tinok she’nishba according to everybody.
Actually, I want to know how much they need to make to stay afloat.
Yekke2, not every fellow who is not frum is a tinok she’nishba.
A question for the Israelis: how much does a Chareidi family with 6 kids make a month?
Nfgo3, ridiculuos! They could support someone without being able to influence the outcome.Plus, it was Sen. Inhofe who said it.
BTGuy, if someone is a rashah, he is a rashah. “Only HaShem can…” – is a false shittah.
EY mom and other esteemed EY ladies, what gets the frei mad is the fact that the Chareidim need to be on the government payroll because the husbands would not work. The benefits come from their taxes. If all Chilonim did what you suggest, the Israeli economy would collapse.
Again, I do not believe that an average Bnei Brak wife goes to work as a computer programmer and brings in enough gelt to almost support the family.
Lit.KJ., Eretz Yisroel was a part of the Ottoman Empire before the WWI. After that war the League gave a mandate to the British Empire. The were supposed to help build a Jewish state there. That was the mandate.
Secondly, for the n-th time, the Arabs would have almost all of the Chareidim working. No subsidies from the government. Period.
They would not draft the Jews as they consider them unworthy. Btw, Iran does!!
Plonis, weddings and dirahs are paid for by the American Chareidim. Your numbers do not end up. How much the allegedly hard working Israeli Chareidi women make already?
EY Mom, kvutzat yeladim and datot come from taxes which the working population pays. The Chareidim do not produce those taxes. In fact, they are supporting you.
Bear, twisting the facts as usual? The British got the mandate from the League of Nations to create a Jewish state there!!
Btw, an Arab state would never pay to keep all those Chareidim in kollel forever.
Stop the vile Brisk-Satmar-inspired propaganda!
Lit.K.J., I said already that the Earth is flat. Have not you heard?
Daas Yochid, the only reason I broght that Gemorah down was to show that we have to be very concerned about causing Chillul HaShem(c^v). The Givyonim’s (and their possible sympathizers) ta’anah was a far-off one. Yet, the Gemorah says we had to be worried about it.
As far as the etzem zach goes — I wrote enough. See my posts. Also, keep in mind that it is not only that they don’t understand the inyan — they are not mechuyav al pi Halochah(or otherwise) to support all the Chareidim in kollel.
Daas Yochid, if someone does not want to be modeh al ha
emes, he will not. Pharoh is the primary example.
My point about the Chilul HaShem was that it is Chilul HaShem to squeeze money out of unwilling and protesting people to support oneself in learning. If the raya from Yevamos is not a raya for you, I have nothing to tell you anymore.
Btw, chevrah, I hold that the Earth is flat! Anybody wants to prove me wrong?
Plonis, get it! You belong to the small minority of Anglos who support themselves! That is not the case with the Israeli Chareidim! Stop the misrepresentation!
Daas Yochid, why did the erliche Jews have to put up with the Roman avodah zorah government? It was not right, right? My point is you have to face the reality.
Y me, +1. For sure, as far as the first 2 paragraphs go.
“Mine was just meant to be a case in point that kollel families can be self-supporting”. Yael.e, exactly! It was an example of what could be, but that is not the general matzav of the Chareidim there. You live in R.B.S also, probably?
The fact that the Israeli kollel system exists on the government money is well known. It seems that it is you who need to do some research.
Plonis, Israeli Chareidi women do not get full-time well paying jobs which bring in enough to support a family. The kollel system there exists only because the frei shell out a lot of money for it. I know you do not have a lot of extra time, but, maybe, do some research. You are not the whole Chareidi world over there!
Daas Yochid, it is important for you and the Israeli Chareidim to get back to Earth from their la-la land. They are not some independant entity that has it’s own economy and army. What if the frei stop the money-flow? They could be in for a rude awakening.
Yael, how many Israeli Chareidi women do you know who work as computer programmers full-time and support the family?
Or is it just that Joe now appears under female screen names also?
Artchill, totally false! It was not meant to be hypothetical! That’s the type of lies some say these days! Al pi Halocha, one is allowed to hit a rashah. It is not always wise though.
Rebbe said about Levi, his talmid:”It appears to me he has no brains in his head!”.Sounds strong, does it not?
Avhaben, get it through your head — it is the Medinah who pays the Chareidi bills, not vise-versa. If both were to say:”We are not paying anymore!”, the Chareidim would lose big time. They won’t have money to buy food (c^v).
Avhaben, stop saying ridiculous things! The Israeli Chareidim pay those taxes from the money they get from the government. If the latter stops paying, there will not be anything to pay the taxes from or buy bread either.Get back from the la-la land.
Ladies(Morahmom,Shira…), Chazal openly said not like you.
D.Y.,real abuse is real abuse. Nevertheless, certain things which are considered abuse are really not. It just these days (because of yeridas ha’doros), the olam does not hold by it — you can’t really punish anybody or rebuke people.
Advise given to people on how to talk to their children is also tilted in the direction of excessive leniency. Again, because of yeridas ha’doros you can’t tell anybody what to do.
D.Y., parents do not have to walk on eggs around their chidlren — they are supposed to be in charge. Chazal did hold of hitting and “zrok morah be’talmidim”. Somehow in previous doros they did not examine the kavonos of melamdim under microscope. Etc.
Da’as Yochid, I beg to differ. Certain things are good. Just the the dor is not holding by it.
Zahavasdad, the reason for the Sefardi hisbatlus to Rabbonim in not what you mentioned.
Lakewhut, is it just to enforce traffic laws? Just because something is inconvenient for you, it does not make it unjust.
PBA, for crying out loud! IF YOU DO NOT HOLD OF THE MEDINAH, DO NOT INSIST ON STAYING IN LEARNING ON THE MEDINA’S GELD! HOW DO YOU SPELL YASHRUS,btw? Or it is not a Yeshivishe word?
Loyal Jew, your warped and extreme comments betray your true id. Yoe are –Joseph.
Lakewhut, what you are saying is outrageuos! Many countries had and many still do have a draft. They draft people to defend the country. And they do not ask them if they want to be drafted. Hitler would have conquered the world if the USSR and the US had not had drafts.
Secondly, US has a very large population no enemy armies on the borders. And only a tiny % of Americans serve. In Israel, all of the above does not aplly.
The Bear, Bnei Torah in E.Y. can not stay in learning without the “Medine”. Who’ll pay their bills?
Yea, Achosid(Joe), the Chareidim won big — with the anti-Chareidi party coming in second with 19 seats! Indeed!
Toi, and they did not say now that Nachal Chareidi is “yehareg…”. They say it’s bittlu Torah, btw.
Toi, drei nit ken kup!! Why was Rabi Chanina ben Tradion’s wife punished for not being moche on him? After all, he knew Shas better! Stop with the propaganda!
Quite frankly, I am tired of writing the same thing again and again. Toi, exactly, first read my posts carefully and then speak.
Da’as Yoichid, it clear from the Gemorah and Rishonim and Achronim that if the Goyim have a fair and reasonable ta’anah on the conduct of the Yidden it is Chillul HaShem. The Gemorah in Yevamos(79A) where Dovid Ha’Melech executed Shaul’s relatives is especially compelling because there the chashash was quite far-off.
Da’as Yochid, in times of the Chazon Ish and even later, it was not a Chilul HaShem because the frei and the Mizrachi Israelis did not mind giving money to the Yeshivos. It is Chillul HaShem though to insist on staying in learning on other people’s money when they openly and strongly object to it.
Could Eshes Rabi Chanina ben Tradion be blamed for not stopping her husband? Think about it.
As for the insults, my definition is based on Gemorahs and Rishonim and Achronim.
Btw, do you know why the Satmar Chasidim do not go to the Kosel?
Ben Levi, your willful blindness is outrageous! Just as with DM and Shmoel, I have nothing to say anymore. I have said enough.
It is not the essence of Judaism to stay in kollel while getting money through Chillul Shem Shomayim!
Ben Levi, one aveirah does not justify another. You may not stay in kollel if it means living on treif food or robbing banks no matter which aveiros frei Israelis do!