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Reb Eliezer,
“Unorthodox “ in the title of his book was not referring to to the “orthodox “denomination of Judaism, it’s a description of himself and his journal. You’re taking it out of context. He never associated with anything other than authentic Yiddishkeit.
Of course he was Mikareiv many, many Yidden who had may have drifted in different directions before they had had the fortune of meeting Rabbi Feldman.No Mesora,
Your statement is ignorant and wrong. “Great Rabbanim “ did not violate HalachaZaphod,
I too suffer from existential angst.
Sometimes I think I am Frog. Other times I am Toad.
Sometimes I feel like Benjamin Compton.
These days, I am usually Claude Frollo.The Gemora in Shabbos says that a person who is a angry and smashes bottles to “vent” his anger, this is similar to worship of Avoda Zara. The explanation of the characterization as AZ is beyond the scope of the this note, but it’s clear that blowing off your anger by venting in an blast expression of negative energy is wrong from a Torah perspective .
I think my worthy colleague Avira has articulated some options that are in consonance with the Torah way very eloquentlyPan galactic gargle blasters!
The “Datche” vacations that many gedolai yisroel took in the summer consisted , for the most part, of them learning in forested areas and taking walks while speaking in learning with other Talmidei Chachomim .
Many of the beautiful pictures of Rav Baruch Ber speaking in learning with other Gedolai Roshei Yeahivos and also various Admorim are from those “vacations”.
Well.
You’d probably like this one better, and be able to relate to it.
“Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don’t look like mutton again tomorrer”, said one of the trolls. “Never a blinking bit of manflesh have we had for long enough”, said a second.”Why can’t anyone answer an honest question in a straight way?
Here’s is Wikipedias definition of “Trolling”
In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, a online video game), or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others’ perception. The behavior is typically for the troll’s amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival’s online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online.Why oh why can’t you all have a CONVERSATION ?
One person’s statement providing a catalyst for the next one to pronounce a vitriolic counter statement , often replete with insulting and hyperbolic language is not a conversation.
A request for anecdotal reports is not an accusation, not a claim to know the truth or to have a solution , not a deeply held Hashkafic position regarding Hishtadlus, the efficacy of Tefilla, nor a claim to define the term “yeshivish “. Sheesh.
Polite discourse , listening to what the person is saying and not accusing him or her of what he hasn’t said, responding with measured words and logic – try it – here and everywhere! You’ll be surprised what a difference it can make!
Agreed with Avira
The Am Haaratzus is staggering.
This is major issue in Halacha and Torah Hashkafa. Yheres a Gemora in Kiddushin that discusses an actual issur to create one’s own “Peshito Shel Mikra”.
You have to know the facts of the sugya before spouting opinions about what you think makes sense or doesn’t make sense.ArtScroll has Poskim who have them direction. There are subtle distinctions between may of yhe examples being ignorantly bandied about here.
It’s so sad how far we have fallen. Even the basic Mesora to know that you have to k ow what’s legit and what is Megaleh Panim BeTorah is lost …
I would like thank Emes nit Sheker for a thoughtful, carefully written , and well worded post. Substance , not shrill hyperbole.
Ymr
To go from criticism to gas chambers – wow.I think What some of the previous posters are trying to say, albeit unclearly, is that we can recognize and have compassion for indivuals who have powerful urges to commit various wrongdoings. But we should not buy in to the concept that an individual should by defined by those urges. That it’s his or her IDENTITY. From a Torah perspective , that’s untrue. A yid views these urges as a Yetzer Hora. Compassion and helping in overcoming urges is different than creating a framework for people who identify themselves as gay. There are all sorts of negative outcomes that flow from buying into this concept , as YU is.
YU is trying to figure out how to technically live with the letter of the law of Halacha, all the while buying in to completely non Jewish perspective and attitude. The synthesis results in apologetics and compromise. Unfortunately it’s not surprising …
Baby squirrel , your misunderstanding and misquotation of the Rambam is almost as appalling as your ignorance
I think what they have done is terrible.
But you completely mischaracterised what they did. They replaced it with a new club which is said to help the members adhere to Halacha.
I do not condone and have many, many objections to this and many things they have done. But you can’t misstate the facts.
Those above arguing to equivocate cheating to get government money (which is wrong, of course), with allowing a pride club, is a fallacious argument .
It’s like saying that it’s ok to allow the parking lot of your shul to be open on shabbos becuase anyways people talk about business by the kiddish and sometimes forget and move Miktza.
YU has made choices that have led down the path to where they are today. Many individuals who are possessed of integrity found it necessary to leave the institution at various steps along the way. Others play the ostrich game, or make distinctions between various parts of the institution, etc.
One wonders how strident their stance against gays would be if it was the CDC and Dr. Fauci who was against gays, rather than merely the Torah.
Expectations are the mother of disappointment
One small point that I think is important :
The Gemora shouldn’t be read to imply that the way to have children who are Talmidei Chachomim is to NOT be a talmid chochom.
Let’s say for arguments sake that 5 percent of Klal Yisroel are TAlmidei Chachomim. The Gemora isn’t saying that the 95 percent have children who are Talmidei Chachomim and the 5 percent don’t.
The Gemora is asking why we don’t see a higher percentage of children who emulate their parents, as would be expected. And the Gemora gives 5 reasons.I think that it would be reasonable to take out of the Gemora (at least with regard the latter 3 reasons) that working on one’s self not to have these problems AND being a Talmid Chochom, would help one raise such children …
So I have my work cut out for me.
(The first two reasons don’t apply to yeshivush and frumkeit, just Torah).
. GYE has many practical tools that can actually help people struggling either with serious porn addiction or general Kidusha struggles. There’s a huge range of programs and services offered.
It’s not 2 dimensional but extremely helpful to many. Very special dedicated people have invested years of hard work in GYE and helped many many people
Gadolhadora,
Your flippant dismissal of GYE and ridiculous comparison is totally offA rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Ah, Zaphod, to be (yeshivush) or not to be, that is the question .
Rav Chaim stated that one who lack eloquent articulation of an idea reveals himself to be lacking the n and rue insight, regardless of his language of choice.
Thus spake Zarathustra
Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day today …
Is this a delete key I see before me, handle toward my hand?
One is more than enough. BH!
Sefaria contains translations of the Gemora and other seforim by non -Orthodox “scholars”. A user won’t necessarily know if he (or she) is learning Torah or taking in something from a tainted source. I myself have found Seforim translated in a skewed way. (Lines of Gemora – not the deplorable source sheets that are open to everything deplorable that can be misconstrued about the Torah ).
This is a big issue. Torah must be learned with Tahara and Kedusha.
It’s sad that so many don’t aeeem to be bothered by the idea of using a resource for Torah learning that is tainted.
The level of absolute Am Haaratzus on this post is astounding. Go into Beis Medrash and learn.
Please keep completely uninformed , off the cuff harbrained ideas for all other topics, and not for actual learning, especial when it comes to the basic Yesodos of Yichis of Klal Yisroel.
Now go ahead and yell at me and call me names. I’ve used up my time in the bathroom and on YWN for the day.
Dirk Gently and Arthur Dent were not anti semetic.
Faulkner probably was.
To what level has Klal Yisroel decended that questions of Halacha are a matter of a poll in the CR?
And that prominent Hashachos are “relenting” due to consumer pressure?The worst insult is “Am Ha’aretz”. The very, very worst
Now I’ll leave the bathroom and go back to Beis Medrash.
AM HA’ARETZ
That’s the worst insult ever.
unfortunately, there’s a serious pandemic of this illness.
Now I need to leave the bathroom and go back to Seder….Using the term “fluff” for The Heileger Rabbi Akiva Eiger is extraordinarily sad and painful to encounter
I can’t imagine what type of Chinuch background would enable that kind of statement.
One doesn’t have to personally learn from a Sefer or even purchase it, but to speak disparagingly ?!?!Zaphod, the answer to your question is 42.
I had it for a while after I had Covid. It was getting better slowly. I got tired easily a lot too. It took a few months but was getting better.
Happens to be , when I took the vaccine (about 3 months after I had civid) I was very sick for a day, and following that these symptoms went away. My (frum) doctor said he had at number of cases where that happened, though not everyone.
Avira is educated, intelligent , informed and thoughtful. He almost never takes bait, and rarely rants, he responds respectfully. [Passion and ranting are different.] His Torah quotes are accurate, and he doesn’t shoot from the hip. Surprisingly for the coffee room , he is actually NUANCED. I find him impressive.
Kol HaKavod
Always ask-
The fact that issues are complex and there is room for a sophisticated approach doesn’t mean that that it’s childish to say that watching movies almost always causes one to encounter numerous Halachic issues.It’s a classic fallacy. “There are those that oversimplify an issue therefore everything you say is oversimplification”. That’s not logical.
Avira has thought deeply about this and posted insightful points that aren’t generally focussed upon. Many thanks . Kudos.
Yes, YWN coffee room is certainly bittul Torah.
editedMitzvos and Aveiros that are in the realm of thoughts and personal feelings, Avoda, etc are not “Hashkafa”. They are “Halacha”. Anyone who isn’t a complete Am Haaretz can easily cite a plethora of sources.
Is lashon hara Hashkafa?
Why should Histaklus, Lo Sasuru, Bitul Zman, virtual Torah , Moshav Leitizim, miynus , etc be relegated to the category of “Hashkafa” and lifestyle choices ?!?
Perhaps there are “frum “ educational systems that teach that some of these topics are not Halacha but rather “choices” within orthodoxy. That would explain the attitude. Avira knows….
I take exception to the language
“The RBSHO was willing to overlook etc”
Humility and Yiras Shamayim , I think should preclude speaking for the RBSHO on such matters. And the language “overlook” is unseeming.I also take exception to the accolade :
“Extraordinary individual who has accomplished a lot more than you or me in life etc who just so happens to be a non-observant yid”Perilous waters, methinks.
One wonders whether GadolHatorahs yardstick for success is, indeed, the Torah’s….At the risk of wasting my time I’d like to make 3 points.
1. Love love love for all Jews doesn’t mean that wrongdoing is ok or that errors in Halacha and Shitta are ok. It means we love those who commit those Chattaim no matter what. Doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t focus on something wrong. The twaddle about how if everyone would only love each other more wonderful things would happen is nice, but doesn’t address most of the actual points Avira made.
2. There’s a fundamental difference between human weakness and error and a philosophy that condones such. For example :(this is a MASHOL!). Every single one of us has to improve in Shmura Halashon , Bittul Torah, Tefilla . Creating a philosophy and SYSTEM that would say that Lashon Haro is ok on Tuesdays, Fridays, and Sundays , or that it’s ok to have “Days off “ from Davening is Kefira. Please apply the Mashol intelligently.
3. Addressing very specific points with generalities about divisiveness and Ahavas Yisroel; the importance of respecting others Minhagim , and the various weaknesses in the Yeshiva system is illogical and doesn’t talk to the point. Saying that there are people within the MO system that don’t exhibit these endemic flaws , or who learn a lot and have good middos doesn’t answer the issue either. The incredibly painful point that Avira has put forth is that Modern Orthodoxy has developed a system and philosophy that generally contains elements that are counter to the Torah. Whether there’s any point of this discussion here, or if the coffee too. For that matter , is another question.
I’ll stop here
There’s an important point.
The Torah teaches us not only to behave with certain actions, but also how to feel. It’s totally normal to feel hatred and want revenge if someone harms you, to Covent your friends house and perhaps his wife. But the Torah teaches us that we are capable of working on our emotions and becoming noble and rising above normal feelings.You’re struggling with “Noseh BiOl”, with Mishtateif Bitzaran Shel Acheirim. It may be very normal and reasonable. That doesn’t mean that where the Torah expects you to remain….
Doesn’t mean it’s easy. We all have Mitzvos that are easier for us and ones that are harder. That doesn’t absolve us of the responsibility to keep growing more noble. I can’t imagine that you could possibly believe that the Torah doesn’t want you to feel pain for the families etc. You’re just being honest about the struggle. That’s fine. Arguing about if your feeling are legitimate or not is a waste of everyone’s time. They’re legitimate to YOU. But it doesn’t stop there…
Chazon Ish and others seem to hold that the Minhag Haolam follows the Be’er He’teiv (225 6) who says the Brocha comes first.
Perhaps readers should ask their rov?
It’s amazing how people gravitate to Segulos.
Saying Birchas Hamazon with Kavana is a wonderful Segula for Parnassa. So is Davening for Parnassa 3 x daily.
If you read Krias Shema twice daily you will see a list of things that can bring success in Parnassa , guaranteed by the RBSHO.
But someone says that Rav Mendel of Rimimnov said that a specific Parsha on Tuesday of Beshalach is a segula and it spreads virally around the world. “Last chance to say Parshas HaMon!”
I don’t think being the Am Segula means this.
There’s a well known story. Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlita told someone that it’s a shame that Rav Yehuda Hachassid didn’t include the aseres hadibros in his tzavaah, because people would be much more careful about them had he done so….
Please remember that not every arrogant, difficult, and self-centered person is a narcissist.
There’s a trend to jump to the label today. Especially if you or someone you love is involved in a difficult situation in marriage or another difficult interpersonal situation. There are a lot of difficult people who cause there pain who are not narcissistic, and don’t necessarily deserve to be labeled as such. Even if he or she is causing you pain!
Tiger Tiger burning bright
In the jungle of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Could trace thy fearful symmetryWhen the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears
Did He smile his work to see…William Blake (I think. It’s been around 20 years)…
Tiger Tiger burning bright
In the jungle of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Could trace thy fearful symmetry…Not one individual has yet mentioned that king of condiments: MUSTARD. The only choice for the discerning sophisticate.
I would like commend RebYidd on her masterful application of Sherlock Holmes to the situation at hand. May we all be Zocheh to avoid all kinds of jezail bullets. Amen.
Would be a nice idea for those interested in pursuing greater understanding of the Halchos being discussed to study the sources inside. To understand Rav Ahron’s shita, please see his teshuva in Shu”t Mishnas Rav Ahron. Good place to start.
It’s interesting how many people commented how “they don’t know why Rt 9 would be different than any other road wider than 16 Amos”, and then proceeded to disparage the idea. It would be far more intelligent to actually find out the answer….
The details of Hilchos Eiruvin are highly complex and technical.
Rav Ahron Kotler z”l was of the opinion that Route 9 (Madison Ave) is a Reshus HaRabbim Diyoraysa, and therefore would invalidate any Eiruv made that crosses over Route 9. According to many Poskim, this could invalidate the Eiruv if it encompased certain streets that lead into the 9. The lakewood Rabbanim have never countenaced an Eiruv that would be invalid according to Rav Ahron’s shita. There are many, many smaller Eiruvin throughout Lakewood that are Kosher according to all. And are approved of by many of Lakewood’s Rabbanim, (including some of “Yeshiva’s 4 Poskim”)
This does not necessarly relate to the Shailos involved with the creation of an Eiruv in Brooklyn, and RavMoshe z”l’s Shita regarding the “Square” containing 600,000. This is a unique issue relating to Route 9, which transverses most of the eastern seaboard of the US.
This isn’t really a political discussion, and should probably not be made into one.