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Without a poll of Orthodoxy today, we can’t really know what the normative psak is. However, my experience has indicated to me that most frum people consider most non-Orthodox today tinok shenishbu. Including Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva.
WhatsApp is different than your typical social media. It’s more like text messaging than Facebook.
“If a woman is old enough to get pregnant she’s old enough to be taught to not do the immoral things that cause it. Her parents must keep an eye on her.”
Of course, parents can keep total watch over their teenage kids from engaging in such things. Especially the ones going to co-ed public schools. And of course all teenagers listen perfectly to their parents. Especially when raging hormones work against what the parents are teaching.
You and I both know that Rav Shlomo Zalman’s shittah on this is not the one that is generally followed and the adoption of his criteria would probably cause the majority of non-frum Jews to be disqualified as tinok shineshba.
Please provide a source that the level of knowledge he has disqualifies him as a tinok shenishba.
“that’s called twisting someones words. more commonly known as sheker”
Hard to accuse me of sheker when I literally quoted his words in my post. You’re right that I don’t know exactly how much chassidishe seforim he has learned but when someone says “including Tanya”, it would be like someone saying I’ve learned mussar seforim for decades “including Mesilas Yeshiram” revealing their ignorance as they speak.
“I’ve learned chasidishe seforim for over a decade, including tanya. Never saw a piece about rebbe worship, him running the world, or that you can pray to him at a kever and it’s not doresh el hamaysim because he’s the essence of god wrapped in a body.
I’ve seen a lot of things i don’t understand, but those are things that are not meant to be understood, they’re just plain AZ”
If you think you understand the chassidishe velt because you learned a little chassidishe seforim and went to Torah Vodaas then that might be the reason you think Chabad is not rooted in precedent from Chassidishe thought.
@yuda the maccabi
But he’s a tinok shinshba
@The Wolf
I thought you were a full time blogger 🙂
Ok, this is really not working, I tried to link to specific post but when my post gets published link gets messed up. I’ll reference it if you are still interested.
On page 2, PAA, November 7, 2014 at 3:43; Post #1101882
Yay, I kinda messed up the link and it just links to the thread instead of the specific post.
Try this one:To reiterate, you really need the Wayback machine for that post (and really the whole thread in general)
The Supreme Court definitely needs reforming. I don’t think court packing is the answer though.
“First, The Oaths are quoted L’Halachah in numerous sources, including but not limited to: Piskei Riaz (Kesuvos 111), Responsa Rivash #110, Responsa Rashbash #2, Megilas Esther on Sefer HaMitzvos of Rambam Ramban (Maamar HaGeulah #1 regarding why all Jews outside of Bavel – the majority of Jews at the time – did not go to Eretz Yisroel at Coresh’s call), Rambam (Igeres Taimon – warning peple not to violate the Oaths or else face grave danger), Maharal (Netzach Yisroel 24) writes that even if the Goyim try to force us to take Eretz Yisroel for ourselves during Golus, we must allow ourselves to be killed rather than take violate the Oaths, as well as other places.”
As someone who reads old threads it seems that this list of sources was responded to by PAA six years ago:
Unfortunately, the hebrew quotes have been reduced to question marks but can still be seen using the Wayback machine.
Or frumteen. Or daas torah blog. Most posts of his that are longer than a few lines were plagiarized from there.
Yay, the number of frum girls becoming PAs has very much increased. Makes sense as it pays well with flexible hours. Great for a frum mother.
“He learns in kollel and she supports the family financially.”
Who takes care of the kids?
Historical studies is the field of academia that is being referred to here. Due to its very nature, it cannot really be empirically based.
@AviraDeArah
“It is 100% true, emes veyatziv. It has no mixture of non-jewish ideology, or personal bias.”But you are ignoring the times that Rishonim/Achronim point out the influence of outside sources on their Torah like the Gra about the Ramabam in some areas as well as personal biases such as the Pri Chadash sometimes arguing that the Shach’s critiques of the Taz sometimes stemmed from “מרוב חפצו להשיג על הט”ז”.
“The idea that we can understand rishonim by studying the culture that they lived in means that their Torah is not completely Torah, but rather the product of outside influences.”
We have discussed this before but is it not possible to say that they were influenced to some extent but it is still Torah? Every human is at least to some degree influenced by his environment.
Some people have claimed that Marxism is a religion and a cult.
@AvirahDeArah
Maskil ≠ Heretic ≠ Academic
“Haaretz is the Zionist version of Der Sturmer.”
There is a sickening tendency of some to compare things to the Nazis or the Holocaust. It really downplays the greatest crime in human history. To see it on a Jewish site is really sad.
Assuming he had shimush and learned how to learn and go through a sugya but doesn’t have a Rav now in his current situation why can’t he learn up a sugya? You make it sound like this is some type of dinei nefashos shayla or that he’s paskening for others. Nor is this some super controversial question. Obviously, one has to know one’s own biases but assuming he feels that he is not being biased within the area he’s learning, what’s the issue? Part of the purpose in spending time in a halacha kollel is to gain knowledge on how to pasken even if one ultimately does not become a recognized posek himself.
” if he cant find a rov [btw if he is married he better find one ASAP] he should refrain from eating pizza until he finds a rov.”
That’s ridiculous. If he knows how to learn up a sugya and can come out lemasseh then let him do that.
“Asei lecha rav!”
We don’t pasken straight from Pirkei Avos besides the fact that there are various interpretations as to what it means.I highly recommend this old Coffee Room thread for a back and forth of learned posters over the issue of paskening ikkarim:
(To see the Hebrew characters that have been reduced to ???, use the Wayback Machine.) It’s really good.@common saychel
Perhaps by asking random people online one can obtain mareh makomos to investigate as well as being able to hear different opinions on the shayla.
@ujm
“Everyone must have a Rov.”Source?
“why ask a halacha lmishya question to a bunch of ramdom people online instead of asking your rav who paskens your shalos.”
Not everyone has a Rav. (I am not saying the OP doesn’t necessarily, just that there are people that don’t)
” Sorry folks, but Science hath Spoken, and thou must Believe in the capital-S Science and Listen to the Experts, for anyone who dost not obeyeth is a heretic and must be banned from public life.”
I think you would like the work of Paul Feyerabend.
If its paas habah bkisinin, then mezonos
“Every time the government passes a law that is against halacha, they are burning sifrei torah and we don’t protest”
Source?
“Ultimately, it will pass but probably not in the next month or two.”
But will Biden sign it?
Each system has its pros and cons. Daylight Savings time is not in accord with our circadian rhythm but there is reason to believe it lowers crime rates (less nighttime to commit crimes). Permanent standard time may not be as good for the economy but is better for sleep. The change in clocks causes chaos in a person’s system for a bit of time which can cause traffic accidents (which is obviously horrible but again one needs to think about possible health effects and how that affects mortality with permanent dst). However, as sleep expert Phyliss Zee was quoted in the Washington Post:
“Zee said her “heart sank” when she saw the news of the legislation passing. “I thought there would be more of a discussion, that it wouldn’t be as unanimous.” Of the three potential time systems for the country to be on — permanent standard, biannual switching and permanent daylight saving time — she said, the last is “probably the worst choice.””
“And this is your savior? This is the best democrat you can bring?
You guys make me sick”
Who said Biden is their “savior”? Or is the “best” democrats can bring?
@ujm
פוק חזי מאי עמא דבר@AveiraDeArah
The Gemara at least at a quick glance seems to be indicating that it’s not proper, not necessarily assur.
I know it’s rare but I have seen frum women who were, perhaps not fully drunk, quite tipsy.I agree that if anything should be permanent it should be standard time which is more in sync with our natural circadian rhythm. I do like getting the extra hour of sunlight in the spring/summer but if people don’t want the hassle of changing the clocks twice a year (I don’t fully understand why it is such a big deal to have one’s schedule disrupted by an hour, it’s not like people’s schedules aren’t interrupted all the time with various events, work, etc.) it should be set to standard time.
“Yes, it is assur for women to get drunk.”
Even privately? Source?
“Empirical support for this hypothesis is found in the GPS coordinates of 5T which is much further east than BP, Willy, Monsey and Lakewood.”
This made my day.
” As Moshe from Midwood noted, Congress is unlikely to legislate around the inconveniences incurred by a minority of yidden just as they no longer are captive to the views on this subject held by a few thousand Dairy Farmers whose cows don’t hold by DST.”
These aren’t the only groups that oppose it. The National Association of Convenience Stores, for one, opposes it. Educators from around the country are concerned about kids going to school in early morning darkness. Health experts believe that standard time is better for keeping a healthier sleep cycle. I am not saying that there are no benefits for permanent DST but there are a lot of concerns as well.
Also note that this was tried in 1974-1975 and was greeted with strong backlash.I already contacted my representative (for the first time) about this asking him to oppose the bill in the House. It really upsets me that they are changing the current system.
@the kneidel and AviraDeArah
These sources are saying that it’s assur? Or that there’s just no mitzvah? I never heard that it’s assur for women to get drunk (privately at least)
“Daas baalei batim is “hepech” of daas torah(rav chaim brisker), so if you’re an average jew, just flip what you consider to be common sense and you’re probably thinking in the way the Torah want you to.”
It’s one thing to point out that the Torah does not always follow common sense. It’s another to imply that you should always think the opposite of what common sense tells you to do.
“Just because America decided a few years ago (after engaging in this behavior in its founding and subsequently for centuries) that conquest is assur and evil and whatnot, doesn’t make it so.”
International law has banned wars of aggression at least from the beginning of the twentieth century. How well these laws have been followed is a different story.
I hear what you are saying, however I find it a bit diffucult to brand someone a kofer for following what the Gra says about the Rambam. If I recall correctly, there were some baalei kabbalah that felt that the Rambam had to mgilgal as a worm as a kapparah for some views in the Moreh Nevuchim. If someone would follows such a view, I would find it hard to label him a kofer.
What you are bringing from the Netziv is not really relevant. It can be both true that the Rambam was influenced by Greco-Islamic philosophy and also true that once he writes something it becomes Torah.
Again, you said that the Gra can say the Rambam was influenced by philosophy but we can’t. What is the source for that?Ok, so I went looking for Rabbi Soloveitchik’s writings on this topic and I found a transcript of a speech he gave in 1975 on jewishlinknews about it which is what I think you are referring to. I didn’t have a chance to read the whole thing, however from just skimming it I see that it is talking about histocrizing halacha but its primary focus is on chazal, not rishonim or achronim. Here’s a key passage:
“The Rambam in perek gimel of Hilchos Teshuva, halacha cheis, «וכן הכופר בפרושה והוא תורה שבעל פה והמכחיש מגידיה כגון צדוק ובייתוס»[8]. It is very strange; I wanted to discuss it with my father zichrono leveracha. If he says that whoever denies the truthfulness or the authenticity of Torah SheBe’al Peh is a Tzeduki, why did he add והמכחיש מגידיה – «Whoever denies the authority of the scholars of the masora»? So apparently, the Rambam says that under the category of kofrim baTorah are classified not only those who deny, that for instance, nisuch hamayim is required or arava she’ba’Mikdash is required, or they deny the Torah SheBe’al Peh; there is no doubt about it, but moreover, even those who admit the truthfulness of the Torah SheBe’al Peh but they are critical of chachmei Chazal as personalities, who find fault in chachmei Chazal, fault in their character Rachmana litzlan, or in their behavior, in their conduct, say that chochmei Chazal were prejudiced, which actually has no impact upon the halacha – nevertheless, he is to be considered as a kofer. «וכן הכופר בפרושה והוא תורה שבעל פה והמכחיש מגידיה» – what does it mean «והמכחיש מגידיה»? He denies the perfection and the truthfulness of chachmei Chazal – not of the Torah, again, but of the chachmei Chazal as personalities, as real personae, as far as their character is concerned, their philosophy is concerned, their outlook on the world is concerned.”
“Marx, the gra could say that; we can’t – for us it’s eili ve’eilu and the rambam’s torah is treated as torah, not as Aristotle.”
Source?
I am not familiar with Rabbi Soloveitchik’s work on this topic but there is a difference between an amora/tanna and a rishon.
“The rambam and others who occasionally interpreted agadatos that way were not under such influence”
Beir HaGra yoreh deah kuf ayin tes, yud gimmel:
הרמב”ם וכ”כ בפי’ המשנה לפ”ד דעבודת כוכבים אבל כל הבאים אחריו חלקו עליו שהרי הרבה לחשים נאמרו בגמרא והוא נמשך אחר
הפלוסופיא ולכן כ׳ שכשפים ושמות ולחשים ושדים וקמיעות הכל הוא שקר אבל כבר הכו אותו על קדקדו שהרי מצינו הרבה מעשיות …בגמ’ ע”פ שמות וכשפים אמרה איהי מלתא ואסרתה לארבא אמרו כו׳ (שבת פ״א ב׳ חולין ק״ה
והפלסופיא הטתו ברוב לקחה לפרש הגמרא הכל בדרך הלציי ולעקור אותם מפשטן וח״ו איני מאמין בהם ולא מהם ולא מהמונם אלא כל הדברים הם כפשטן אלא שיש בהם פנימיות לא פנימיות של בעלי הפלוסופיא שהם חצוניות אלא של בעלי האמת:@AveriaDeArah
Source for Chazon Ish story?
@BY1212
“Russia has been saying since 1994 that they would push back against NATO encroachment as to them it is a threat they will not put up with and will push back on.
What do you think push back on means?”So what? Let me ask you straight out: Does the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO justify a full scale invasion? I agree that the West is partly responsible for the mess we are in now but that doesn’t mean Russia is innocent.
@Gadolhadorah and jackk
I can’t speak for him but it doesn’t seem to me that BY1212 is a “Putin apologist”. Rather, he is asking critically whether the Western narrative on this issue is the correct one. It’s something we should all do instead of gobbling up whatever the mainstream Western media tells us.You are providing evidence that NATO expansion eastward provoked and angered Russia which I agree with. But does that really justify a full scale invasion of a sovereign nation? To use your analogy, if Canada was considering allying with Iran would that justify a full scale invasion of Canada?