mariner

Zachkessin: there is a simple reason, there are about 15 catholic schools in nyc. They are going bankrupt. If they close, we are talking maybe 15 kids per local school, as they are bussed from all over. Whereas yeshivos are all in the the same 3 neighberhoods for the miost part. We are talking thousands of kids per local school. There is no way in gods green earth the system could handle that type of influx at once.

As for seperation of church and state, you are regurgitating liberal nonsemse. The state isn’t picking a religion. Vouchers are used in about 17 states. Its fine.

forget homeschooling.

here is a proven idea that will work:

in the 1980’s Ed Koch had a law floating around that would have made it mandatory for all agencies (including private) that got any funding whatsoever from the government to allow gays employment. Cardinal O’Oconor was going to have none of that, so he called Ed Kooch. He let him know that the minute that law was signed, he would officially close all his shelters, nursing homes, hospitals, care centers, etc, and dump all thos people on the city. of course the city couldnt handle such a thing, especially in a 1 day, all at once period. guess what, the law never passed.

on to prices of yeshvos:

we can do the same thing, in a very simple manner,

ALL the yeshivos, AT ONCE, must close thier doors, from teh most right wing, to the most left wing, fromt eh frummest, to the most modern, ALL. a letter will go out to all parents, telling them which public school in their area they should go to for the first day of school. ALL parents must take off from work, and go with their children to the local public school. we are talking here of way over a hundred thousand of children on an already stressed system. i would say an emergency meeting in the city council, and state legislature would pass through vouchers in minutes, if not seconds, for the city and state, by law, has to educate all children, and if they dont have the capabilities, they can get sued.

see the problem is, the goyim know that we jews can never do anything as a group, because we all hate eachother. it is pathetic. so, we continue to pay more and more for education, while receiving less and less form our stolen tax dollars. thruth is, all schools dont have to od this, if even all the frummer yeshvivos did this, it would hurt the ps system. this must be done for the future of our children, as the new young parent generation just cannot afford these tuition prices. most of us entered the job market with not much more of a increased salary then our parents in similiar fields, yet cost of living has quadrupled. a house when my prents bought one, was 150-200 thousand, now, they are near 500-600 thousand. schools were considerably cheaper, and supplies for school were as well.

when we do get our vouchers, which this process will force to happen, there is a next step, one that will drive down the cost of school tremendously. now the way our yeshivos are run, there is one central office in each yeshiva, they go and order books, and materials for thier 30-60 etc studetnts in each class. that is moronic. becasue most yeshivos use similiar books. now if all of them got together, and we made a central office, just to take care of these functions, not anything else, the prices of school materials would plummet. instead of 300 schools buying 100 board erasers, one organization buys 30 thousand. the discount would be huge. now add this to chalk, cleaning supplies, paper, books, pens, pencils, stickies, etc. you get the point. even limudeo kodseh . what the heck is the differance between a meseches succah in chaim berlin, torah vodaas, mir, boston, satmer and/or visntiz, etc. NOTHING. instead of buying them each yeshiva sepreately, buy it as one, in bulk.

the catholics do it, and it cuts costs. CUNY/SUNY does it, and it cuts costs. who doesnt, the jews! the people who are supposed to be thrifty and money smart! Why? because we are idiots, and for some reason, even for our own good, would never sit down with people with different thoughts then ours. MORONIC!! this needs to stop, or kids will start going back to public school because tuition is getting impossible to pay.

all you self appointed “askanim” who somehow have access to every “godol” under the sun, the next time you are getting them to assur some other stupid thing, tell them to also sign a statement telling all yeshivos not to reopen after succos.

i thught i copied the whole thing, sorry, i will look later from where it was gotten. i absolutely did not mean to do that. hey, im no joe biden, i dont plagerize!

joseph, i can prove you wrong very simply. the jews knew what was coming, that is why my grandparents got the heck out. they were here in america before teh war started because they saw the anti semitism getting worse after ww1. thats both sides, hailing from hungary, belarus, lithunia, and poland. so all my grandparents knew to get out. how? because they used their judgement. that is all that was said. that just because reabbonim in their communitites said to stay, they didnt, because it wasnt halacha to listen, as it was in the spirit of suggestion. they chose, thank god, not to listen, and left. what was being said was that what rabbonim say, when not in regard to halachic practice, does not have to be listened to on the same level as a halchic decsion. this was common practice until very very recently, past 20 years or so. this whole nonsense of rabbonim not making mistakes reaks of christianity, and must be stopped dead in its tracks. its thuggish, and keneged halacha, to tell people because they dont want to listen to the “advice” of a rov, that they are not following halacha.

joseph, btw, why did you want to know my age and marital status?

rabbiofberlin: the message i mistakenly left for joseph i will repost for you:

you are wrong, joseph is an english version of the hebrew name yoseph, just as sam is irish for george. yoseph spelled that way, and matisyahu for that matter, is a transliteration, a english spelling, with a hebrew pronunciation. no-one has the name in america, or anywhere i have ever heard, as matisjahu, with a jah sound where the yah sound belongs. your logic is very wrong in thinking the proper spelling would be with a j. moshe is moses, ahron is aaron, but that is not the way to spell the hebrew name moshe and ahron, that is the way to spell the english names of moses and aaron. just because that are the english bibles translation, doesnt make moses the proper spelling of moshe.

joseph, you are worng, joseph is an english version of the hebrew name yoseph, just as sam is irish for george. yoseph spelleh that way, and matisyahu, is a transliteration, a english spelling, with a henrew pronunciation. no-one has the name in america, or anywhere i have ever heard, as matisjahu, with a jah sound where the yah sound belongs. youre logic is very wrong in thinking the proper spelling would be with a j. moshe is moses, ahron is aaron, but that is not the way to spell the hebrew name moshe and ahron, that is the way tpo spell the english names of moses and aaron.

oomis1105: you are so full of yourself and hypocritical. because you have to read and reread a text message to understand it, the younger generation does. sorry, but a message board is not letter writing. the reason text messaging is short bursts, and tends to have words abbreviated or slang usage is because of 2 simple reasons. 1. it helps, because until recently most phones did not have QWERTY keyboards. 2. text messaging is SMS. SMS allows only for 160 characters, including spaces, so this type of writing was needed. funny you should say that message boards are more like writing a letter, those abbreviations and slang you see, it comes from message boards. it has become more uses in SMS texting because of character constraints, but outside of “yeshiva world” when you go to more techno savvy boards, ones used for technology especially, abbreviations are all over the place. (some are very off-color.) email would be more like letter writing. message board posting is more like putting a message on a bulletin board in a college, hence the early term for message boards, “bulletin boards”. as for the emoticons, girls especially have been using smiley faces and frowns in their letters and cards for decades. as far as texting not having any deep thought involved, that is simple as well, the question usually isnt very deep either. you again only have 160 characters, so usually its a question about fact, as if are we going to lunch, or what do you want to eat, or did you hear about what that person did, etc. no one has deep conversations on text messaging, it would take for ever. teens gossip, and that may go on and on for hours, but it isn’t deep and thought provoking. you may not be able to tell from the message the tone, so that is why emoticons are used. saying they are not withstanding would be like saying without punctuation withstanding, i can never understand any book i pick up, because its just words written in a funny order. emoticons are used for that exact reason, to let the reader know the intent. in a way it is the punctuation mark of texting.

Doc: Zionism is failing? really? funny you should say that, since aliyah is on th erise like never before, and every single one of those people making aliyah is an orthodox ZIONIST!!!!!! maybe not a socilist zionist, like the zionists yeshivas like to make believe is all there is to zionism, but they are religious zionists all teh same. zionism is on the rise in all “black hat yeshivas” throughout america! go to any summer camo, even agudah, and counselors proudly have israeli flags hanging in their bunks. the younger generation is at a time where their love for israel is growing. nefesh benefesh cant work fast enough to help people move to eretz yisroel. you are in serious denial if you think zionism is dead. yes, the zionism of yesteryear is dead, kibbutzim for the most part are dead, even moshvei shitufee are dead, and a way of the past. but Zionism of the religious type is flourishing, from the mizrachi movement, and their young teenagers who proudly put on the uniform of the tzahal, to the ones who get beaten to a pulp for the stachim and outposts, to the yeshiva bochurim who go their to learn, and then move there to the young married couples who leave everything behind and make aliyah, Zionism is not dead! it is alive, and well!

Pashuteh Yid – i think all these questions are raised on the techeles web site. they are emesah people, trying to do good. they arent trying to trick anyone. they have answers to all these questions. you may not agree with their answers, and they are fine with that. just don’t say they are wrong. you may feel they are mistaken, but they feel they arent, and al pi halacha, they are wearing techeiles regardless (they say not to put it on a linen beged, so there is no issue of shatnez).

squek, sorry, but halacha doesnt have any value in teh us court system.

a lwyer can correct me, but from what i have read, if it was shown that he was drunk while driving, then his indeferance to her life, the fact that he didnt go and save her, pushes that act into the previous crime of dui, and makes it vehicular manslaughter. because he was never checked for alchohol levels in his blood, all it was was a tragic accident, in which his indifferant behaviour meant nothing under the law. teh kennedys are all reshoim gemurim, and anyone associated with their party, teh demokkkratic party, just remeber, oy lerosho oy leschaino. may his tumor grow to the size of his oversized head, and may his liver rot!

joseph: they are not being apologetic toward this kastener fellow, they are asking why the satmer rov didn’t thank him, regardless of him maybe being a rosho. he still saved the rebbes life. yes, did hakadosh baruch hu orchestrate it – yes, but that is the stupidest most dumb reason not to thank someone. because technically with that train of thought, a thank you is never in order, as really no one does anything for anybody, hashem is doing it all. sorry, but simple hilchos derech eretz and hakaros hatov mandate that when someone does something for you, you thank them, and the rebbe didnt, hence their questioning. and if the rebbe was so hell bent on thinking it all came from hahsem, why didnt he honor hashem as the guest of honor instead of all his big donors, at his melava malkas? after all hashem gave him the money?

zalman, it is well known that rav elchonon never called him an apikores. its a buba meisah. and the netziv, again ill say, and this is documented in the torah temimahs biography of the netziv, that if the holy volozhin yeshiva was only created to be there to teach rav kook, then it would have been enough. the netziv was known to wear teffillin all day, and his talmidim wanted to as well. he never allowed them to. when rav kook asked, he was given the ok, and the netziv told the rest of his talmidim that only a pure yerie shomayim can wear teffilin all day. but then again, the netziv was a nobody according to zalman. only the voyel moshe was ok in his book.

you want to talk about korach., go look at rashi there, it talks about oy lerosho oy leschaino, and neturei karta, who are mamesh reshoim gamur, besides being mechalelei shabbos, since there are pictures of them carrying on shabbos, using bull horns at a rally in iran, are very close to satmer, and even use yoyoel moshe as their bible for hatred of fellow jews (though their actions put their jewishness into question). and the crc, the satmer hechsher, that puts ads in teh ny times, and has billboards up on highways how medians yisroel isnt jewish, are you going to say this a jewish thing, to air our machlokesin to the goyim? satmer are all nuts, they have gone off the deep end. yes ,reb yoel was a zaddik, but his grandchildren are petty, and cause major chillulei hashem. its all on youtube, go look for it, the supreme court cases, and the stuff they were claiming about eachother. pathetic. this stuff you never see in teh mizrachi movement. all gedolim, even agudist, are considered to them toras emes. they do learn voyel moshe in alot of the mizrachi yeshivos, but i doubt rav kooks seforim are learned in satmer.

zalmen, youre a fool to think that reb yoel was in the majority, he wasnt. maybe umongst hungarian rebbes, who like to live in 1780. but the litvish mehalech is to go with the present, and that is that the medina exists, and we have to live with it. rov kook was just as big as any godol of his day, only differance was he was a chief rabbi, which has halchic status as a nasi, so his psak held more weight then most. voyoel moshe had a little shtelar in uberland hungary, in waht actually was a litvish town up until ww1. yes he was a huge talmid chochom, but he wasnt a chief rabbi fo anything. his psak went for his chassidim, rav kooks for the entire english mandate of palestine, which actually included jordan as well!

well i gues our emohos, and the wives of our tannaim and amoroim were all not tzniusdik, as they all wore sandals, which have holes all over them 🙂

yanky55, unfortunately there are. for some reason there are people out there dumb enough to vote for a communist for president.

aliyah, here we come!!!

for a change i completely agree with cantoresq. unlike Yussel, i was going to blast him until i read the bottom, and realized he was quoting someone. he is dead on, nowadays there is no room for debate. the fact that harav yoshe Ber ran circles around the “rabbonim” of his day is completely ignored. in the us there was no one like him, maybe except his brother, reb ahron. now understand that he was around before his cousin, rav moshe, and his close chaver, reb ahron soleveitchik were here. remember he STARTED agudas yisroel of america! it is when the hungarian chassidim came to america, and started flexing their muscles in agudah, that he went his separate ways. like reagan said about the dems, i didn’t leave the democratic party, the democratic party left me, so he felt. Rav soleveithchik didn’t leave aguda, aguda left him. his halchik decisions about mizrachi and the ny board of rabbis was no differant then say rav moshe’s about chalov stam, and reb yoel teitlebaum about medinas yisroel. they were all toras emes! and anyone who mocks the other is a pure fool. yes you can disagree, as i do with lets say reb yoel teitelbaum who was a goan olam anbout the median, but to say yoele teitlebaum was an idiot fool wearing a fur hat would be chtzpadik, as is calling Harav yoshe Ber – jb.

on a side note, i was in a seforim store one day, and 2 kids were sitting there making fun of a pictire for sale, the rwere saying, hah its that shack guy, and making spitting sounds. have no clue what was up with that, but i wlked over to stop them. i look at the picture, and lo and behgold, the kids were a bunch of punks, it was rav moshe, i guess the litvishe yarmulka threw their chutpadik tachtonim off. forst i said, your both isdiots, as that is rav moshe feinstein, then i said, what chtzpa do you have irregardless of the fact that it is nt rav shach, to make fun of a man 70-80 years older then you, again irregardless of the fact that he is one of the gedolei yosroel! their answer, our rebbe doesnt like him. i got fuming, and called their yeshiva and without saying which rebbe, that their talmidim, are being chozek rav shach, and they were shocked, and said they would look into it. so the roblem here is not the ppl, but the rebbeim who in shiur smack rabbonim who dont tow the line, like rav yoshe ber, who by the way technically had more talmidim then anyone eles in his generation. (ok, some of them may have gone on to do things that we can call questionable, but not all).

same goes for rav kook. he was such a tzaddik, that as a bochur, he was the only one the Netziv allowed to wear tefillin all day! the netziv was known to say that if the volozhin yeshiva was only created to teach rav kook, then it would have been worth it. when he came to eretz yisroel many thought he was moshiach, so again, its rabbeim who put nonsense in bochurims heads

same goes for not saying yehey shmey out loud, and modim in chazoras hashatz under ones breadth. these are also minhugai ta’us. a minhag that can go both ways, and it depends on the shul would be hageshem or hagashem in mashiv haruach (reb moshe and reb yaakov argued). yanky55 is right, there is no-one who says to say the end of the gual yisroel brocha under ones breath.

pashuteh yid, that is here, not in eretz yisroel. in eretz yisroel, they use hebrew words, like chareidi, mizrachi, da’ati, chiloni, etc.

ujm, charidal is short for charedi leumi, or a mix of charedi, and mizrachi.

a chareidi is technically another word for yirei shomayim. it is more commonly used in eretz yisroel to encompass the group of orthodox jews who are “ultra” (not that i agree that the mizrachi jews are any less ultra, but you know what i mean) orthodox. in reality is is a society in eretz yisroel that adheres to everything rabbinim dictate in both halachic and social aspects of life, where in the mizrachi communitys, known as daati, where halachic decree they follow, and social decrees are given as more suggestive. then you have charidal, which is mix of both, where most run of the mill americans will fall (heavily chassidic americans would fall in the chareidi camp.)

joseph, for one, ill assume that you meant suspicious, not specious, as specious means beautiful.

there is nothing to assume here in regard to goyim wearing shtreimels. you can see it with your own two eyes that hakodush borcuh hu so nicely gave you. all you need to do is go to the museum of natural history, and go to the area i think called the hall of civilization, or something like that, and go see for yourself. you’ll see Mongolians wearing shtrimel type hats, as well as the hungarian empire kings. i can assure you that mongolians and hungarian kings were the furthest thing from being jews. they were barbarians at best.

the red light, good luck, as far as the obstruction, ny law prohibits anything hanging from teh mirror, as well as the front window. technically gps in the center is also an obstruction, so pay the ticket, as most municipalities wont drop the ticket, as it is known to be a ticket given solely for collecting money.

the license plate obstruction is also something youll just have to pay, as it is against the law for any words, both the state name and “the empire state”, to be obstructed. why, i have no clue, probably also to just collect money.

as far as him being an anti-semite, sorry, but he did nothing anti-semitic, unless he called you a dirty jew, or kike when he gave you the tickets. he could have alchohol tested you, searched your car, and done other things that would be deemed excessive, and then i hear your complaint, but all he did was give you 2 tickets your guilty on by your own admission, and one ticket that is disputable.

rabbiofberlin:

before attacking me, youre comma rule for “beofore and is not correct:

One of the questions we are asked frequently is whether a comma should go before the conjunction “and” in a series of three or more items. The answer is yes. Although grammar gurus abandoned that comma rule for a while in the twentieth century, we have since realized that using the serial comma (as it is called) is a good idea for two reasons:

First, it prevents misreading. Consider this sentence, for example:

The menu for the class picnic will feature green beans, stewed apples, macaroni and cheese and okra and tomatoes.

Without the serial comma, the series items are difficult to see. Here is the same sentence with the serial comma added:

The menu for the class picnic will feature green beans, stewed apples, macaroni and cheese, and okra and tomatoes.

With the serial comma, the reader can tell easily that the class ate four different dishes, not five or six, as may have been construed without that last comma.

Mrs. Jones left all her money to her three children: Huey, Dewey and Louie.

Without the serial comma, the sentence does not clearly indicate that the three children are to be given equal shares of the inheritance. Quite possibly (especially if Huey were a jerk), Huey would get half the money, and Dewey and Louie would have to split the other half.

zalman, i dont feel under siege because of my clothing, sorry, its a chassidisha thing to care about the outside livush. sorry, but wearing the clothing of the mogolians and early hungarian empire doesnt make you any more jewish then me in my 20th century looking clothing (if you dont believe the shtreimel is mongolian, go to teh musuem of natural history, and go take alook, youll be utterly surprised). you want to look authentically jewish, put on a kafiayh, and the arab cloak thing worn in arabic countries, chances are that is what we wore back then. clothing changes with the time, otherwise we would still be waring the vines of grapes like adam harishon!

im sorry, but a true “chossid” would not have said something as stupid as your comment. i work with many chassidim, and they all are ehrliche yidden, who would never say such stupidity, i believe in zeh vezeh divrei elokim chayim. which means, not slamming one side to prove the other. my attack was to prove a point, that attacking can go on on both sides, and that for some reason, its always the litvish getting attacked, and im sick of it!

seriously, you really think that clothing is what makes me think the litvish minhagim are under siege? what clothing you wear is irrelevant to me, i was not brought up that it makes a difference. you want to wear shmona begodim, gezuntah hayt, but dont for one moment think your clothing is any more jewish then mine. your clothing is from not only pruste hungarian/polish goyim, but ones who slaughtered jews by the thousands during tach vetat, so dont even start about my clothing being the same as pruste goyim today. (again befaore people get appalled by what im saying, realize i am answering this poster bec of his attack, i am showing that attacks are bi-directional, but for some reason everyone here only sees it when chassidim are attacked!)

rabbiofberlin: i have no clue what your appalled by. nothing i said is appalling at all. and to prove that im not making the attacks on litvish up, look at the post from zalman and youll see what i mean. and if you dont want to be mekatreg someone dont, dont beat around a bush and say you dont, bec in essence you are. you are no better then me on these posts, and you know it. i may have said something you dont like, but im sure in your myriad postings on this and other sites, you have ticked people off as well.

bogen:

1. I never said rav ahron shechter was a litvak, he wears a gartel, and acts like a shtickle rebbe, since he was a talmid of the previous rosh yeshiva of chaim berlin, who hailed from a huge chassidishe family. rav hutner became more chassidish later in life, and rav ahron followed him in that direction.

2. if holding hands and dancing together in your eyes are the same, then you have a point, for the rest of us, we realize that holding hands is nowhere near dancing, and there is zero similiartiy between the two, so the whole rov ahron thing is moot.

3. youre point of the machzor vitri is the one i made, so congrats, the machzor vitri was stating that dancing INFRONT of a kallah is a mitzva, not WITH!

4. the minhagim i stated ALL started after the baal shem tov, and made inroads in the upper hungarian chassiduses around the time of R. Nosson Adler. before then, these minhagim were all asain jewish at best, and many historians, both jewish and non, say alot of these minhagim stem very possibly from goyishah places.

5. none of these minhagim were instituted by chazal, they were at best instituted by achronim. true ashkenazik customs were instituted by chazal, and those would be the ones that sfardim do as well. dont throw chazal around, they instituted very little when it comes to minhagim.

nameless:

Jent1150:

you obviously didnt get my point, the starter of this discussion made it seem as if the litvish need to answer for something, and we dont. the chassidic customs are newer, and that is fact, unarguable. i was stating that i am sick and tired of having to answer as to why i do and do not do different things, and people think i am the one who is changing how things are done. i guarantee if someone started this series and said the same thing about a chassidic custom, lets say sitting in a succah on shmini atzeres, you would smash them for everything under the sun, yet when a chassid slams a litvish custom, you go along with it.

think big: i have no clue as to what you are talking about. i do ALL my fathers minhagim, ALL! i take my minhagim very very seriously. i DONOT follow my “father in laws” minhagim, as i have need, or halachic obligation to. i agree with you %1000 percent, one should not deviate from their fathers minhagim.

(story was great, i enjoyed it and it makes total sense. i dont hate chassidim, i hate the idea that we all have to do chassidic minhagim, and if we dont, or have certain decisions regarding chassidic customs, they get questioned as if we are nuts)

btw, to all of you, you may find that certain roshei yeshiva wont be messader kiddushin if there is a mitzva tance, how about the fact that in every shteeble you cant daven for the amud without a gartel, i find that to be disgusting! (jj, trying to show that this stuff is on both sides of the isle, so to speak)

lemaaseh, when it comes down to it, us litvish need chassidim to teach us how to laugh and be besamaiach, and chassidim need the litvish to teach them to be serious, and then we can great mashiach together and figure it all out then.

[side point, about rov tendler, i heard a tape of him, and he made it seem that the mixed seating came from the feinstein side, and that rabbi tendler said ” who was i to complain – i was marrying the gadol hadors daughter” and btw, he wasn’t picked by rov moshe, since rov moshe didnt pick any of his children in laws, but he did ok them all, and he oked rov tendler. he loved rabbi tendler, and went to them for shabbos and yuntif all the time.]