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bomb, FYI:
Websters unabridged:
Liberal: 1: Marked by generosity
2: Lacking moral restraints
Libertarian: An advocate of the doctrine of free will.
To believe in free will, you have to believe in right and wrong, good and evil.
Liberals are moral relativists. It’s all relative. You have to look at the person’s perspective. THus, evil people like Stalin, Hitler y’s, Pol Pot, also have a point of view and from their point of view they are right.
If I don’t make sense, don’t bother reading. This is a public forum and I don’t speak to you directly.
Bobmaniac, Why Should I leave Rabbi Levin out of it? He is being politically incorrect because he is standing (alone) by Torah values. That’s just my point! We are afraid of doing that so shouldn’t we support someone who does it for us? How does it look when the whole Jewish community goes along with this toeva, for all the wrong reasons.
You think only Jews have these values? Read some conservative web sites and you will be amazed at how many goyim are vehemently against this toeiva. They understand better than you, that this is just an attempt by the liberals to turn our society into an immoral, g-dless,culture that will not be bound by any religious laws whatsoever, laws that they refer to as Judaic-Christian values. If you knew what liberalism is you would understand they are for freedom from all laws that restrict mankind from whatever he wants.
George Soros, a self hating Jew who is a billionaire is supporting most of these liberal organizations that want to destroy the fabric of our civilization. As a teenager, he collaborated with the nazis y”m and helped them find hidden yidden. This is common knowledge, he doesn’t deny it and is even proud of it. He hates G-d and all religion; he will tell you that himself. He has manipulated markets and people and became a billionaire. He uses his money to destroy our constitution and American values. He was greatly involved in getting Obama to the presidency.
So don’t for a moment think that if you vote for someone who is planning to legislate this toeiva into law that it will not affect you. It will affect all of us. We will be forced to teach that this is normal practice because otherwise we will be considered racist or homophobic and our yeshivas will not be eligible for any money.
To have this legislated into law is only the beginning. If these g-dless liberals win, C’V, many more of our values will be trashed. As it is, the liberals do not respect the constitution, they consider it an obstacle to their movement. Hence, the strong outcry and the tea party. Halevi, the tea party prevails. If they don’t, we as frum Jews will not be able to live in this country as before.
Bombmaniac, I’m glad you brought up this subject because I feel as you do. It seems that most Yidden have no idea what it means “the redefinition of marriage.” It’s one thing if they want to sin privately and do their own thing, but it goes much further than that. They want acknowledgement that they are as normal as what is called “straight marriage “: one woman and one man. They want to bring into society a new definition that everyone will have to acknowledge: that it is as normal for 2 men to marry or 2 women as one man and one woman. This is totally against HKB”H will. By doing this, everyone will become confused and right will be wrong and wrong will be right. THere are people who are saying that once you start redefining marriage, then it becomes a free for all. Who’s to stop a judge from marrying say, 2 men and 1 woman? When you open a pandora’s box, everything is possible. Not only that, but there are people who say even animals will come into play. There will be marriages between people and animals. Don’t believe? Look up the prestigious Princeton University professor, Peter SInger, (Yes, Jewish) who teaches and writes books that there is no difference between a human being and an animal, so that if a baby and a dog are drowning, you don’t have to save the baby rather than the dog. Please look him up before you say I’m rambling incoherently.
Secondly, you are mistaken if you think this is only a goyisha thing. Azoi vee s’critaled zech, yiddeled zech. Go see what’s happening in YU. Yup, you got frum people who are openly gay and proud of it. Not only that, but they have gathering of faculty and students where they come out and argue their case.
You have to remember that there is a huge difference between a person sinning, and legislating the sin into law. Shades of S’dom and Amorrah.
So you really need to give credit to Rabbi Levin. He’s going out on a limb when it is not politically correct to do so. Personally I think he’s doing the work we should be doing, but we don’t like to rock the boat, to ruffle any feathers, so we do the politically correct thing and ostracize him. You know, we should be honest with ourselves, if we lived in the time of Avraham Avinu, we probably would have said to him, stop making so much trouble. Of course we don’t believe in Avoda Zora, but just bow down to Nimrod and be quiet. You’re just a troublemaker, and do you want to end up in the kivshon Ha Aish?
No, nobody can compare to our patriarch Avrohom. But just remember, he was called H’Ivri because he stood against everyone. In other words, he was politically incorrect!!
Who knows, if this is not the test for our generation.