Mammele

One likely reason for less divorces in the secular world is that so many children of divorced homes don’t want their kids to go through what they did.

Point is not everything positive in the secular world can necessarily be duplicated by us when it comes to such complicated societal issues. And definitely not if its cyclical. B”H we weren’t part of their deep downturn so we won’t have the same upswing.

Which doesn’t mean we don’t have a lot of issues to examine. It starts with chinuch and not spoiling our youth. Good shalom bayis doesn’t begin with marriage or dating/engagement.

WTP: Negel vasser cup covers are about 30 cents a piece in the US. They work great for standard size “teplech” and have saved us some trouble many times.

But do train your kid to take the neggel-vasser out right after washing as there’s no cover I know of for the bowl. This should solve your main practical concerns.

IMHO it’s definitely preferable to follow the school’s guidelines in this case, especially if the kid is apt to tell his classmates that he didn’t have to, since his mother said so – and possibly cast both you and the school in a bad light (you for not following the letter to a T, and the school for piling on Chumras some don’t hold by).

Good luck!

One point some of you are forgetting is that when a teacher quietly pulls aside a girl telling her that her hair is too long, there will invariably be comparisons and kvetching of “why just me” etc. — behavior every parent with more than one child is familiar with. Rulers don’t lie, so it’s actually easier for girls to accept.

Additionally, since the hair was measured before the school year started, there’s really no embarassment involved since no rule was broken yet. And hair, unlike Yarmulkes which was used as an example, actually grows. Which means it’s very easy for it to become too long. So among her peers, parents and faculty it’s taken in stride, with no reason for shame.

Yes, once taken to task, it needs to be corrected to follow the school rule, but girls generally make light of the whole issue – whether we want them to or not – or worst case scenario give an exaggerated sigh…

Most of you are overestimating the fragility of our Bais Yaakov girls.

Wow Avram in MD, I hadn’t seen your post while I was working on mine, but we obviously share some ideas. Couldn’t agree with you more.

Sorry Joseph, this is honestly out of my league.

And there are so many ranges within the same communities, nobody can really put people in simple boxes. I’m definitely not attempting to, and perhaps should have never started this discussion.

But everyone is welcome to define their own community numbers if they do desire. I don’t…

I’d venture to say that the tuition crisis is having a greater impact on population growth.

Joseph: robust has many levels. We are as a community, imho, experiencing less growth than the previous generation. Our growth is very impressive, but let’s not kid ourselves about this.

Thanks CT. That answers my number three to Lb I guess before you even read it.

LB: which vaccuum did you buy? I’m so tempted to get one yet my husband thinks I’m falling for nonsense.

Any advice on make, model, how difficult it is to program, how often you need to empty it, charge it etc. will be appreciated. Also, what’s the size of the space you’re using it for, and how well does it clean corners, around obstructions etc. Thanks.

(But on a copper pillow case I’ll pass. At least for now…)

I think I may have seen something mentioned about it in “Hamaspik Gazette” among the letters but I’m not sure. You can contact them either way as they have lots of people’s shared health info, and if they don’t have anything on it yet, there will likely be readers that’ll respond to a query.

PBA: I find it very relevant that one side wants to kill me more than the other side does. So I wouldn’t make friends with either side, but since the one that actually murdered someone was from among the neo-nazis, there’s no white-washing this.

Blood and Soil etc. is not what I want to hear chanted in the US, and I don’t think anybody here will argue that Hitler would have been this successful if not for his oratory skills. So free (inflammatory) speech that leads to mowing people down should scare us immensely. The fact that they’re armed doesn’t bode well either.

So of course street fights are wrong (and probably strengthening the White supremacists cause) but we can’t ignore their hateful message either, and pretend all is happy-dandy or that it compares to 2 opposing baseball teams fighting.

Although it’s unfortunately a disappearing problem as the older generation passes on, I thought it sad some years ago when I was made aware that someone couldn’t “farher” his own grandchildren because they learned in English, while he was familiar with Yiddish.

I have also listened to the Klein interview and my takeaway was that he was being honest and open, including slightly critical of himself for not being aware that they were pushing her too much to succeed acedemically.

He is understandably hurt, and the truth is that some of those that harmed her were intentionally callous, while the parents were not aware of the extent of her feelings, until way too late.

He is trying to help other kids in similar situations, not simply playing the blame game. We need this information so we are not the clueless parents, and to know how to successfully help others.

When I grew up many moons ago we had about 2 literally failing girls in our class, yet they were moved up year after year and are successful wives and mothers. Perhaps more could have been done to help them succeed at the time, but it’s also possible that the lack of pressure in our school may have saved them.

The acedemic level of our girls’ schools (I can only speak for those I’m familiar with) is going up, however it’s coupled with more extra-curricular activities. In my days, school was dead boring and I hated it most of the time. The brighter the kid, the more bored she was. So I understand the parents that want a challenging curriculum – it’s not simply because of status.

The tough judgement call is when to cut kids some slack, and when to demand they put in more effort. It’s definitely not a one size fits all.

I specifically didn’t mention the elephant in the room about the pickiness of some schools, because it’s almost a non-issue in the Chasidic schools I’m discussing – except when it comes to parents that disregard certain rules.

Thanks for the explanation RED Mod!

GH: stop with your nonsense and non peer reviewed studies. Chulent is one of the healthiest forms of balanced, protein and fiber filled dishes around. Of course, it depends on what’s in the chulent. In my house there’s no sugar (incl. catsup, bbq sauce, beer etc) which processed carbs are the real culprit in the obesity epidemic. Beans or tofu by themselves don’t have heme iron, which aids in iron absorption.

In fact, vegetarians need almost twice the daily recommended amount of iron compared with non-vegetarians. Iron from plant-based foods is not absorbed as well by our bodies as animal food sources (source Dietitians of Canada).

Meat is only a part, not the main ingredient in the average chulent, if for no other reason than its high cost.

For healthy individuals salt is generally no issue, however sea salt is best.

So you can have your chulent and eat it too.

Now about that challah…

Another part of the article I didn’t post is the major networking and computer analysis going on, which is done by Bloomberg’s organization. We don’t have any of this technology here, AFAIK, just a bunch well meaning individuals and some organizations with old-fashioned networking that sort of works, but we can do so much better.

I’ll give it a shot, one part of really eye-opening article, if the mods will allow it through…

During the decades that Rozman, the new school’s founder, spent teaching at a religious seminary, she found that when girls began flouting the dress code or not showing up, it often correlated with attention deficit disorder or with stress at home. “Not dressing appropriately was only the call for help, the SOS,” Rozman said. “They had real struggles, often inside, and the school had no real way to help them.” Such girls often left or were kicked out, leaving them with no other options.

“And the fall for ultra-Orthodox girls who are not within an educational framework is very steep and very fast,” Rozman said. “Once they do one thing that is not acceptable, it often leads to doing many other things.”

Around the same time, about a decade ago, her husband, Dov, a judge on a Jerusalem religious court, also noticed the high number of ultra-Orthodox boys who, instead of attending yeshiva, spent their days hanging out on the street. “Everyone sees these kids in the streets,” Dov said. “But the Haredi system did not have any solution for them back then. There was nothing for these weaker learners to do.”

So in 2008, the Rozmans, who have nine children, opened one program for boys and one program for girls who had dropped out of the traditional education system. They teamed up with the Amal Educational Network, which operates high schools around Israel with a strong focus on technology, and also offers programs for youth-at-risk, to design the first alternative ultra-Orthodox educational framework. The boys’ school is called Amalenu and combines traditional yeshiva-style learning with technical and vocational skills, as well as offers counseling and life-skills courses. The girls’ school, called Tlamim, also incorporates counseling and operates three dorms to house students who have left home, sometimes by choice and sometimes by court order. Neot Tamar is the couple’s most recent project.

The biggest difference between the boys’ and girls’ programs is that in most cases the boys have left the traditional yeshiva framework, which requires long days of Talmud study, due to learning disabilities. “But the girls, we only see things like learning disabilities in about 40 percent,” Ester Rozman said. “In most cases, they are suffering and end up outside the traditional framework because of bad situations at home.”

That’s how one 18-year-old Jerusalem girl ended up at Tlamim. “What happened at home is really complicated,” the girl said, declining to give details. But two years ago she moved to Tlamim and finally found herself feeling secure enough to focus on her studies. “This is a very warm place, and here I have figured out that if I make the investment, I can do anything and go anywhere,” said the girl. “Before this, I never did anything.” On the day she spoke with me, she was one of only two girls in Tlamim’s school building, near the Central Bus Station. There were no classes due to the Lag BaOmer holiday, but this particular girl had come in to spend extra time studying for a final exam in Hebrew language and grammar.

“Let’s just say that I was in a very difficult place when I came here,” she said. “And even though I still don’t know exactly what I want to do, at least now I understand myself better.”

I found this article published this past June in Tablet magazine “WHAT BECOMES OF TROUBLED ULTRA-ORTHODOX KIDS?” about what’s being done in Israel, very inspiring and eye-opening.

And interesting that Michael Bloomberg (who I generally don’t admire) through his “Jerusalem Innovation Team” is involved in coordinating the various organizations. Unless there’s some hidden agenda I’m missing, or it’s not true/exaggerated, we have a lot to learn and incorporate. And of course need philanthropists and perhaps government funding right here in NY to implement something like this over here on a mass scale. (Not so fast with our government for various reasons, I’m not kidding myself.)

Then maybe “Footsteps” will become obselete in a few years. Hey a girl can dream…

Anyone have some input?

One of the things that struck me is how the founder of a few institutions, Esther Rozman, specifically doesn’t lump all at-risk kids together, as drugs etc. can become an issue for those exposed to others that are worse off. Maybe Malky Klein would have been alive today if we had such institutions here.
(Incidentally, for those that haven’t yet heard her father’s interview, it’s really a must to listen to.)

Also noteworthy, no mention of the word “stigma” or “shidduchim” in the whole article. So perhaps Israelis truly are a different breed, the author doesn’t want to give these fears legitimacy, or she is simply unaware of these simmering issues.

Now this makes more sense. Whites in the US are consistently allowed to be discriminated against. More accurately, white males are the casualties of all the affirmative action being mandated by colleges, government business contracts etc. Which is why I believe Trump won.

Just curious – cause my “second-hand experience” shows exactly the opposite – what percentage of Chasidic OTD parents disown their children for becoming OTD (not simply going to college)? The tide has definitely turned IMHO, so I think Ubiq you are totally off the mark.

Allison, I’d love to hear your input if you can spare the time. Thanks.

ZDad: you’re right. But she’s asking for a Chasidic community in NJ that’s not Lakewood (too far from NYC) which doesn’t exactly leave her with the greatest of options.

Additionally, neither Lakewood nor Monsey started out as the large communities they are now.

If you want easy transportation to NY you might want to look into the fledgling community of Jersey City. But you must have thick skin as it’s not the most favorable of neighborhoods.

According to a recent study, spending money on time saving services (i.e. housekeeping, taxi trips vs. public transit) somewhat increases happiness.
The reasoning is that too many demands on our limited time stress us out. And stress makes us unhappy/tense.

ZDad: each Yiddishe neshama is too precious for us to assign casualties as “par for the course”.

If you check out the Unidy campaign linked to the article about Malky Klein

Powerful Lessons In Malky’s Unbearable Pain – Part 1

you’ll see that unfortunately this mindset of having to fit in by being “on-track” academically is effecting girls too, who have NO CHIYUV TO LEARN. In our efforts for academic excellence and competition – praiseworthy traits in general – we have failed some of our trees, in the mistaken notion of cultivating the forest.

Every mechanech knows that some bochurim can’t / don’t want to learn Gemara, the question is at which point must we admit defeat and offer alternatives, or scale it down.

We the parents are equally to blame by wanting our kids to fit in perfectly, so until OUR mentality changes, the Yeshivas’ hands are basically tied.

Mdg: I believe he also said not to get hung up on the numbers. He was just trying to give us some perspective.

There are no real statistics, and the numbers vary depending on community. So what’s true in his circle, may not be accurate for yours.

Rabbi YY Jacobson has a video up on his site regarding this issue. Worth a listen.
In about the last 10 minutes, he discusses a case, most likely not this one unless many parts of the story were changed, but tragically similar.

He says we have to tune in to our kids and see things from their perspective, and that systems were created to serve the people, not the other way around. But this is just a snippet of the Shiur.

If the mods allow :
https://www.theyeshiva.net/item/5298