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MammeleParticipant
One more thing Ubiq: your mention of the Chasam Sofer’s ruling about not waiting after death for burial was informative, but quite ironic as he was advocating for Kavod Hames, not the opposite.
MammeleParticipantAnd Ubiq, if you’re not troubled by the status-quo, worse is yet to come. The same progressive types who condemn us for shechting a chicken (hey, you brought up this analogy) have scarier assessments about the future.
This guy in particular really got me riled up. His name is James Leonard Park and while unofficially advocating for more so called “optional” ways for people to donate he reminds me of German euthanasia of the unwanted. Among other stuff he’s spouting about people losing capabilities reverting to what he calls a “former person”. There are always people with crazy views, the problem is if Moshiach doesn’t come quickly he’ll probably turn out to be right down the road.
It’s a long copy paste but very informative to see where we are likely heading. And see how he progresses from #1 where we are at now (and you seem to be on board with it) to go downhill from here.
“by James Leonard Park
….1. BRAIN DEATH
The practice of declaring patients to be dead
on the basis of the death of their whole brains
has been well recognized in medical circles since the 1980s.
Actually the first proposal along this line took place in 1868.
Since the beginning, there have been continual refinements
in order to declare a patient to be fully and irrevocable dead
on the basis of cessation of all brain functions.
We will not go into these technical methods of determining death.
The bibliography linked from the end of this essay
allows the careful reader to look as deeply as wanted
into the continuing controversy about just how to declare brain-death.
But most of us will just accept that someone is really dead
when he or she has been declared to be brain-dead
by a physician who in well-versed in the necessary tests that must be used
before brain-death can be officially and legally declared.
The definition of brain-death usually means
that all of the functions of the human brain
have come to a permanent stop.
Drowning and freezing must be ruled out,
since these ways of almost dying
show most of the same signs as brain-death.
However, in the Western world,
brain-death has been accepted in all modern medical practice.
Laypersons do not always understand
(since they can see the body still breathing and the heart still beating),
but with enough explanation most people can accept
that their loved one has now passed over into death.
Some states in the United States have now created laws
explicitly permitting death to be determined on the basis of brain-death.
But even in states where no such change of law has occurred,
doctors routinely declare human beings to be dead
when all of their brain functions have ceased
Organ-transplantation has been allowed from brain-dead donors
for a number of years in places where modern medicine is practiced.
A few countries with strong folk-traditions concerning life-and-death
have not yet accepted brain-death as a definition of death.
But even countries slow to adopt will eventually agree:
When the whole human brain is dead, this person is dead.
Also, the news media no longer have any problems reporting
that organs have been harvested from brain-dead donors.
At least this is true of news media in the most advanced parts of the world.
2. COMA OR PERMANENT UNCONSCIOUSNESS
It is more controversial to consider transplanting organs from donors
who are ‘merely’ in a coma or who are permanently unconscious.
Such conditions are harder to define and more difficult to certify.
Just what tests must be performed by the neurologist
to make certain that this unconscious patient will never awaken?
Sometimes people have returned to consciousness
after very long periods of deep sleep.
What if their organs had been harvested at some earlier time?
They would have died as the result of having their vital organs removed.
So, in order to follow the dead-donor rule,
we must be 100% certain that this donor is really and truly dead.
How long will it take before modern medical practice
recognizes permanent unconsciousness as death?
In the early days of considering this new definition of death,
it will probably only be used in those rare cases
where the patients have given approval in advance
for using this definition of death for themselves.
If a specific patient and his or her proxies are all in agreement
that permanent unconsciousness can be certified as death,
then the doctor who is called upon to declare death
will merely have to determine scientifically that there is
no chance that consciousness will ever return to this body.
I have given this permission in my own Advance Directive for Medical Care.
A comprehensive Advance Directive should include a definition of death.
Here is the relevant Question from my book on Advance Directives:
Question 19: Which definition of death should apply to you? 152
A. Brain-Death. 153
B. Coma or Permanent Unconsciousness. 154
C. Persistent Vegetative State. 155
If you click the link for Question 19 above,
you will see the complete explanation.
And my own Advance Directive is also published on the Internet:
http://
Scroll down to Answer 19.
This explains why I prefer permanent unconsciousness
to be used as the definition of death in my own case.
My proxies are in complete agreement with this definition.
Therefore there should be no problems after my death.
My body can be used as I have directed
after my death has been declared
on the basis of permanent unconsciousness.
My plans for donating my body as a living cadaver
can also be carried forward if and when I am declared brain-dead.
The news media might not be as cooperative.
Some conservative writer might declare that
the use of my body after my death was not appropriate.
This is a good reason for keeping my medical records private.
3. PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE
A more controversial definition of death
would allow patients in persistent vegetative state (PVS)
to be officially declared to be dead.
Persistent vegetative state has only recently been identified and defined.
It has emerged as a end-of-life condition
because of advances in medical science and technology.
Our advances in understanding how the body operates
have empowered us to keep the biological functions of the body going
even when the life of the person is completely over.
Terri Schiavo was proven to have been in a persistent vegetative state
when the autopsy was performed.
But popular opinion before her feeding-tube was removed in 2005
came down heavily on the side
of believing that she was still ‘alive’ in some sense.
Thus, historically-speaking, it will be some decades
before PVS will routinely be recognized as equivalent to death.
And here again, such a definition will first be used
only for those patients who have given their permission in advance
for the PVS-definition to be used in their own cases.
But because being in PVS is such a hopeless state,
and because future advances in neurological science
will make it even easier to certify this condition,
eventually well-proven PVS will be accepted
as an adequate definition of the death of a human person.
Such a change will have tremendous implications
for the practice of human organ transplants.
Because there are 10,000 patients in PVS at any given time in the USA,
this would become a huge pool of potential organ-donors.
With the advance approval of these donors (while they were full persons),
appropriate medical measures could be taken to achieve a merciful death.
And after death has been officially declared, certified, & recorded,
the reusable organs of PVS donors could be transplanted
into the bodies of patients who are on the verge of death
because their original organs are failing.
This new practice could save the lives of many people
whose minds are still functioning perfectly.
Without new organs, the potential recipients will soon die.
If the patient in PVS can be declared dead by acceptable medical criteria,
then harvesting the useful organs would not violate the dead-donor rule.
And the PVS donor (after being officially declared and recorded as dead)
could be maintained on ‘life-support’ systems
while all the necessary tests and preparations are performed
to make the best possible use of the organs that can save other lives.”
MammeleParticipantUbiq: the trouble I have with someone reacting to pain is that unlike the chicken (which btw we have a Torah right to kill and benefit from) the person’s skin color and temperature are that of a live person and he is actually breathing, his heart still pumping — albeit assisted mechanically — when the organs are cut out from him (except for the heart which is briefly stopped first). So any so reaction to the knife such as rising blood pressure is truly troublesome to me, and excuse the pun, heartless.
This is the part about higher brain activity after no basic heart stem functions:
And this is the documented case I mentioned regarding spontaneous breathing, also from the same article:
“What if there is sound evidence that you are alive after being declared brain dead? In a 1999 article in the peer-reviewed journal Anesthesiology, Gail A. Van Norman, a professor of anesthesiology at the University of Washington, reported a case in which a 30-year-old patient with severe head trauma began breathing spontaneously after being declared brain dead. The physicians said that, because there was no chance of recovery, he could still be considered dead. The harvest proceeded over the objections of the anesthesiologist, who saw the donor move, and then react to the scalpel with hypertension.”
The only possible caveat is that this author later went on to write a book about this subject, so some considered it a way to drum up business — although his evidence seems sound, and those on the other side have their own motivations.
MammeleParticipantAs much as most presidents invoke G-d, most of them just play the game for show. Bill Clinton comes to mind – Yiras Shamyaim is the farthest thing from their character. Now maybe the fact that he’s a JEWISH apikoros is cause from concern due to chillul Hashem etc., but since his politics are so far off-base, I won’t stress about his beliefs.
MammeleParticipantPopa: you crack me up…
Ubiq: Thanks for your detailed reply. However, I did some more research and it’s obviously not so simple. It’s easy to say that the diagnosis (read: verdict) was wrong, and true brain death is actually irreversible. However, if medical personnel keep on making the same mistake, something is fishy. I understand no one is perfect, but when it comes to life and death issues such as capital punishment there are numerous appeals dragging on for years. Here a diagnosis must be made within hours (or risk organ death which is the whole point) so there should be zero tolerance or possibility of human error. That’s assuming all involved are actually acting in good faith.
There was a 2012 WSJ article about this topic titled “What You Lose When You Sign that Donor Card”. Contrary to what you are saying, there was a documented case of organs being harvested AFTER THE PATIENT STARTED BREATHING SPONTANEOUSLY AS HE SUPPOSEDLY HAD NO CHANCE TO RECOVER.
It’s also troubling that they can react to the pain, and may be given light anesthesia. The cortex — or thinking part of the brain — is generally not tested for waves as current law doesn’t require it. (The logic is that if one’s brain stem controlling breathing etc. isn’t functioning the higher part of the brain surely isn’t, although prior studies have shown this to be wrong in a percentage of cases.)
Finally each body’s organs can be valued at over $2 million, so yes, legal organ harvesting is a major business -to the tune of $20 billion in 2012 – in the US. (G-d forbid you help match live kidney donors for a buck though…)
MammeleParticipantSorry, I used the word prepped at the wrong place, the article actually said “preparing her organs for donation” (which wrongly makes it seem like the organs were no longer part of her body) but the facts still stand. Here’s the full text, and was reported/copied by many news sources.
Teen Survived Kalamazoo Shooting After Being Pronounced Brain Dead
By EMILY SHAPIRO
Feb 22, 2016, 1:43 PM ET
A 14-year-old girl wounded in a deadly shooting spree in Michigan this weekend was initially pronounced brain dead at the hospital before she squeezed her mother’s hand and was rushed to surgery, her family told authorities.
She is now in critical condition and “fighting for her life,” her family said.
The teen, who was shot in a Kalamazoo Cracker Barrel parking lot Saturday, was pronounced brain dead shortly after arriving at Bronson Methodist Hospital, Michigan State Police Lt. Dale Hinz told ABC News today.
The mother then asked her daughter to squeeze her hand again if she could hear her, and she did, Hinz said. The doctor asked the girl to give a thumbs up if she could hear him, and she gave two thumbs up, he added.
The hospital then immediately started prepping the 14-year-old for surgery, the lieutenant said.
MammeleParticipantJoseph: Ubiq is referring to a general mistake in terminology, not a mistake by Bronson Methodist Hospital in particular.
Ubiq: so assuming the author of the article (Emily Shapiro) was wrong about the girl being brain dead, what are the laws regarding when organs may be harvested from an accident / shooting victim? How do they determine clinical death? Can she be breathing on her own and still be a donor of a vital organ? Are brain scans done and how reliable are they?
MammeleParticipantThanks Mods by the way for giving me a cute subtitle — without me having to beg…
MammeleParticipantExcept that Lakewood’s Jewish population is still a little short of a million…
So I’d venture a guess that about 10% regularly buy those specialty items, and another 25% splurges every once in a while or lekovad a “special” Shabbos or occasion. But I’m just pulling those numbers out of my magic hat…
February 18, 2016 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm in reply to: School Board Monitors in Lakewood & East Ramapo #1157212MammeleParticipantZD: You seem to have zero faith in Democracy and fairness. I’ll address fairness first.
The dollar amount given by the state is based mainly on the number of public school kids. It’s a no brainer that the state should take into consideration the number of private school kids when calculating funding. Unlike what you are trying to portray, kids going to private school are actually saving money for the state and township — they’re not the ones draining the pot, except that the pot is too small to begin with.
Now back to politics: Hopefully some Legislators can simply be swayed by the fairness argument, while other probably rich districts will also gain by including all kids in the calculations for a fair funding formula. (Unless there’s some income test built into the law.)
Now “pork” is definitely built into many laws, but it’s not always the case (not everybody is corrupt) many vote according to party lines, and it doesn’t have to be wrapped into that same law. Politicians can be very patient, favors and promises are exchanged — so yes one hand washes the other — but it’s not so transparent or immediate. According to your logic virtually no laws can be passed, no bridges can be built etc., as there are always those that benefit less than others who will stop everything in its track. (This frozen state is more applicable to the federal government nowadays.)
MammeleParticipantNuts are actually healthy (not sure if everything there actually is, like too much sugar, salt etc.) And are overpriced due to the huge demand precisely because of its health benefits. Although with China’s economy going downward, it’s bound to change.
MammeleParticipantWhen it’s a quarter of a $2 bill (otherwise known as half a dollar).
MammeleParticipantI don’t think any branded vegetables are actually pre-checked. Pos’tiv is usually greenhouse grown with nets etc. (at least those vegetables otherwise prone to infestation) and therefore the best. I think all are sample checked for bugs and “power washed” a few times. Not sure of the exact sequence or number of times washed.
MammeleParticipantI considered that possibility but it didn’t mesh with what I remember about Polish Jewry either. I haven’t seen ZDad’s source to change my perception.
MammeleParticipantZD: you are wrong about Poland. This from Wiki: History of the Jews in Poland
The newly independent Second Polish Republic had a large and vibrant Jewish minority. By the time World War II began, Poland had the largest concentration of Jews in Europe although many Polish Jews had a separate culture and ethnic identity from Catholic Poles. Some authors have stated that only about 10% of Polish Jews during the interwar period could be considered “assimilated” while more than 80% could be readily recognized as Jews.[75]
“According to the 1931 National Census there were 3,130,581 Polish Jews measured by the declaration of their religion. Estimating the population increase and the emigration from Poland between 1931 and 1939, there were probably 3,474,000 Jews in Poland as of September 1, 1939 (approximately 10% of the total population) primarily centered in large and smaller cities: 77% lived in cities and 23% in the villages. They made up about 50%, and in some cases even 70% of the population of smaller towns, especially in Eastern Poland.[76] [77] [78] [79] In 1939 there were 375,000 Jews in Warsaw or one third of the city’s population. Only New York City had more Jewish residents than Warsaw.”
So if 77% of Jews lived in cities, and 80% of Jews throughout all of Poland were recongnizably Jewish, how exactly were 2/3 of the Jews in the cities not religious as you contend?
And the Dohany Synagogue is Neolog, which was a “milder” version of Reform/Conservative — very big in
Budapest. However, while unfortunately true in Budapest, the biggest or nicest Synagogue does not always equal the largest denomination, just more financial clout.
MammeleParticipantSomething like walking can be done for exercise or for pleasure or both. Although usually the pace will define its intent, if someone is elderly, post surgery etc. what may seem leisurely can be pretty intense for their fitness level — especially if it’s a long walk. Even dancing can be both — but it’s usually not too much fun without music…
And exercise is used in physical therapy so it’s not necessarily just to maintain health.
MammeleParticipantPlease don’t put him in diapers. Pull- ups are bad enough for his confidence.
Have you tried waking him in middle of the night to go the bathroom? It’s very hard to time it just right, but worth a shot.
The good news is that he’ll outgrow it IY”H, the bad news is that it may still take a couple of years. Hatzlacha!
MammeleParticipantDY: you’re forgetting one piece of the puzzle. Assuming all other variables being equal, if a 23 year old boy has a choice between dating a 21 year old girl from a not exactly rich family versus a 19 year old from a wealthy family, whom will he (or his mother) choose?
So assuming the older rich females are no longer girls (they go fast) the boys will go for the younger rich girls whose parents promise support whenever possible. And the others are often left out in the cold. Of course other features such as beauty, yichus, smarts and what-not also come into play, but you can’t deny that money is a major factor, and those lacking it do not have a competitive edge.
MammeleParticipantIt doesn’t have to go away. Just don’t let the mountain become taller than you…
Do a load every day or two – depending on family size and laundry volume. Don’t put the next load in to wash before the first is folded and put away. Or at the latest don’t take the next load out of the dryer before the first load is cleared out – so only one clean load in the basket at a time. Small loads are much more manageable and won’t stress you out as much. If you somehow do end up with a mountain of laundry to fold, talk on the phone or better yet listen to a light shiur or story while you tackle it.
And then come the 9 days, long Yomim Tovim, pre-Pesach laundry — these are the true laundry nightmares. But then again, easy does it.
Good luck!
MammeleParticipantTLIK: Actually Yeshivas will probably love it. I think the most likely reason this wasn’t done yet is because it seems like trying to plug a crater sized hole in a ship with a small tube of silicone. No one wants to tackle something where the needs are likely much greater than potential fund raising can cover and have to turn away more people than can be helped.
Perhaps my assessment is too negative, but if you think it’s doable GO FOR IT!
February 8, 2016 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm in reply to: How Do I Know I've Ever Properly Performed Any Mitzvah? #1136322MammeleParticipantThink of each of your Mitzvos as one of your photographs. In retrospect you could have perhaps used a different lense or angle, so you learn for the next shot. And some photos are just about perfect, but being you, you just can’t admit it… And yet others are perfection in itself, so that even you can’t deny it.
The problem/difference is that your photos/Mitzvos haven’t been fully developed yet, so you stumble in the dark as to its merits. You wonder if the the film you used wasn’t expired merchandise relabeled, or perhaps exposed to extreme temperatures which damaged it. You wonder if your subject didn’t move at the wrong moment, if the lighting was adequate or too bright etc. Only Hashem has the Power to develop them and reveal its beauty. (Yeah, it’s an old school moshol but I’m sure Wolf can relate.)
But as I touched on earlier we must “serve Hashem with Simcha”. Sadness is a tool of the Yetzer Hora to depress our potential and limit our Spiritual achievements. So (say cheese), smile, and keep on doing what’s right.
February 8, 2016 12:06 am at 12:06 am in reply to: How Do I Know I've Ever Properly Performed Any Mitzvah? #1136298MammeleParticipantSomebody recently told me that she heard from an ehrliche Yid that if after doing a certain mitzva you doubt yourself it’s coming from the Yetzer hora, not the Yetzer Tov. You do the best you can and then move on WITH SIMCHA.
I don’t know if it’s applicable for everything and you do need to learn the halachos going forward if you think your knowledge is lacking, but simply doubting yourself with no benefit is definitely counter-productive. And the Torah was not given to angels — we try our best with the information we have as mere mortals — not by second-guessing everything up the chain over which we don’t have much control.
February 7, 2016 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm in reply to: School Board Monitors in Lakewood & East Ramapo #1157138MammeleParticipantGavra: I know you copy pasted but just to set the record straight the Satmars are NOT building the Bloomingburg community – Shalom Lamm (MO, not Chasidish) is building it and marketed it to Satmar. He’s mostly behind all the counter lawsuits, but IIRC this case was fought pro-Bono, not sure though.) He invested millions and has a lot at stake in its success. The local community is fighting the development tooth and nail and he’s fighting back accordingly.
As for the voting fiasco the board cancelled all Chasidish votes claiming they didn’t live locally. (Which may have been true to some extent but they cancelled ALL Chasidish votes, not doing due diligence.). Denying votes for discriminatory reasons is a major offense in the US. So they got a monitor, compensation etc., but in Lakewood there are no illegalities claimed, just lack of funds to cover everything.
February 5, 2016 12:09 am at 12:09 am in reply to: Almost meaningless words used in marketing and fearmongering #1136234MammeleParticipantThank G-d for Google. Just wondering, how could the Torah be compared to such a “risky” substance ( ; ?
MammeleParticipantSome people get cavities between their teeth — assumed to be because of infrequent flossing. These studies don’t mention cavities, only gingivitis and plaque.
MammeleParticipantShopping 613: kudos to your school for enacting such a smart rule. No relevance to in or out-of-town. Just lowering the stress level for those that don’t have 5 “perfect” outfits for each seudah etc. and minimizing the heavy garment bag schlep.
Goq: these are for the most part non working teenage girls from families with multiple children whose tastes in clothing far surpasses their parents’ budgets. Even with closets full of clothes, the panicked mantra for many before such an event is “Mom, I’ve got nothing to wear for this Shabbos, and I need AT LEAST 4 OUTFITS! Can we still manage to squeeze in some shopping, or maybe it’s better if I stay home?”
So please cut the school some slack. They’re doing the right thing, and the one outfit can be pretty. No one said it needs to be one-dimensional, whatever that is.
MammeleParticipantThe Queen: how sad. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why we do need professional Shadchanim, or perhaps you can suggest it to a parent as a buffer?
Can the older singles here please enlighten us (disclaimer: they may not be as sensitive as the friend you mentioned) if they’d be offended in the following scenario: You meet an acquaintance at a family wedding, she chats with you a little and then mentions “I was actually thinking about you lately. I had an idea that may be interesting, give me a call when you have a chance if you want to discuss it.
It’s kind of noisy here, let’s dance…”
MammeleParticipantThe Queen: how sad. Do you think if you’d ask the singles their preference would be NOT TO HAVE IT REDT TO THEM? If you’re too close to them to suggest it without risk to your relationship find someone else to do it. But don’t stall!
January 24, 2016 6:38 am at 6:38 am in reply to: Peanuts, gluten, and irresponsible friends #1133516MammeleParticipant42: Per Health someone died after eating a candy bar. Not funny.
Health: Popa is just being Popa.
“We’re just lucky and its pure mazel that she’s never had a reaction.”
Okay, so read carefully. It’s not that just this time she didn’t have a reaction to peanuts, but she never in her life had one. So he’s basically making fun of people that think they or their kids are allergic (and maybe intolerant when it comes to gluten) for no apparent reason… Kind of like hypochondriacs.
January 24, 2016 1:44 am at 1:44 am in reply to: Peanuts, gluten, and irresponsible friends #1133511MammeleParticipantOkay, I reread the original post. I was too hasty in my analysis and this is typical Popa speak… Have fun everybody!
January 24, 2016 12:39 am at 12:39 am in reply to: Peanuts, gluten, and irresponsible friends #1133503MammeleParticipantSo I guess it was almond butter or something… How old’s your daughter? Unless this is a joke.
MammeleParticipantRY: if I’d say chances are a Jew is the best lawyer (at least in the US, it’s hard to compare different countries with differing legal systems etc.) would you also disagree? So now we’re entering “racist” territory… But truly, if you can believe Jews are smart, are “groomed” for analytical thinking, and are overly represented in the legal field, others may believe the same to be true about singing.
But since unlike lawyers, singing doesn’t require a college degree, it’s impossible to know the percentage of professional Jewish singers based on population size versus in the general population. Or to judge how many singers there are who are worthy of the title singer — especially whether to include professional shower singers…
Now that I bothered typing this up before getting a response to my initial question, you’ll probably reply that a Jew isn’t the best lawyer statistically speaking. Oy vey..,
MammeleParticipantI hope most people in the CR don’t get offended so easily. This is an anonymous forum after all, and I hope we’re not all kids.
For children, peer pressure from fellow classmates is everything, and being embarrassed in front of everybody is akin to taking their life. This Rebbe literally saved this boy’s life by doing damage control and returning his self worth to him. Looking at it from this perspective eating Chalav Stam is similar to a Hatzalah member driving to a call on Shabbos – if he’s so makpid on Chalov Yisroel.
January 20, 2016 1:14 am at 1:14 am in reply to: If you do not have s'micha, can you advertise yourself as "Rabbi"? #1134247MammeleParticipantSo all you guys refer to Shlomo Carlebach o”h as Rabbi?
Which brings me back to this…
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/uncategorized/946/shlomo-carlebach-ordains-female.html
MammeleParticipantLol
MammeleParticipantDon’t give away your ages guys, careful!
MammeleParticipantShutting down public transportation before snow actually accumulates and literally stopping the city in its tracks because of a hyped snow-storm is not just being cautious, it’s silly and counter-productive.
They are supposedly working on a better weather tracking system in NY though, so hopefully things will get better down the road.
MammeleParticipantAviK: as a frum woman living in NY I must say that having signs asking women not to walk on one side of the street or not to congregate in front of synagogues does not violate my basic human rights. (Nor does mandatory seating towards the back or on one side of the bus such as the BP/ Williamsburg or Monsey bus.) It may inconvenience me a little at times but a woman that is tzanuah understands the reasoning and doesn’t make a fuss. Torture, if true here, is an entirely different real human rights issue — don’t make a mish-mash of the two.
MammeleParticipantWould you rephrase it as: Is Zionism STILL a tool/weapon of the Yetzer Hora? Or maybe: Is Zionism STILL A Yetzer Hora?
Or do you want to leave the question exactly as is, which implies that all the other Yetzer Horas one has, even in Chutz, are non existent or pale in comparison to Zionism.
It’s definitely a YES to both my versions.
MammeleParticipantSome people give lottery tickets as gifts. So yes someone can win without actually buying the ticket — bederech ha’teva. These tickets have the same minuscule odds as all the others for that game. Whether someone won this way or not is irrelevant.
MammeleParticipantSo Health: If someone frum wants to move somewhere grassy and inexpensive or open a Shul or Yeshiva in a suburb, should they perhaps make Aliya?
What’s your solution, besides remembering we’re in golus? I can understand not building extravagant homes, but please tell us where we’re welcomed. Whether it’s true anti-semitism or simply “anti-cityism” we’re kind of boxed in.
MammeleParticipantLooks up and down the thread. No sign of Sidi before her Thank you post. So the Mighty Mods are using their invisible powers again…
Or maybe just showing my powers of prophecy…
MammeleParticipantWhen DY mentions you in a random post.
When your kids wonder why you don’t know any news despite being on Yeshiva World.
When you save newspaper articles because it may be relevant to the CR.
When you know which poster will respond to which post.
When you wonder where all that time disappeared to.
When dinner isn’t ready on time.
When you find out you need to start cleaning for Pesach when it pops up in the CR.
When you’re fed up with all the topics yet come back for more.
MammeleParticipantWelcome to Anytown USA… Sad but true.
MammeleParticipantDid he even buy the Powerball?
MammeleParticipantIf it’s Sam2, go for it ( ;
MammeleParticipantEmails can be very short and sweet… Why can’t we focus on the topic? So what do you guys say about the fact that the same Israel that purports itself to be the Jewish state, that’s so desperate to get French Jews to immigrate, supposedly to save them because France is loaded with anti-semitism and terrorists, is purposely — at least in many cases — causing them to drop their Yiddishkeit? Or do you honestly think it’s all made up?
And even if the Israeli government was innocent here — which it’s not — do we really need another vehicle for assimilation?
You’re welcome ZD.
MammeleParticipantWho said anything about an hour? I’m not interesting in defending them or going off topic and I don’t know anything about Kalev, but an average kvittel visit with a Rebbe is probably a few minutes.
MammeleParticipantSo how can we compete with them?
Through their love and admiration to the Kalever Rebbe Shlita and their emunas Tzaddikim. They feel that the Rebbe has their Ruchnios at heart. He does not accept any money from them; he just requests that they take upon themselves Torah and Mitzvos.
How’s the situation now?
We can’t accomplish by ourselves, we need more kochos. It’s unfortunately a great tragedy. People that were Shomer Shabbos in France, put tefillin daily, drastically declined in just several weeks! In France they knew that a Jew who’s not Shomer Shabbos is a non-Jew, here they think that by simply living in EY one is Jewish.
The situation is exactly like with the Yemenite Jews in the fifties. The only difference is that there are no dramatic pictures of payos being cut, which would have created a massive outcry from the Jewish [religious] world. However, their mesora is being severed, and the consequences are unfortunately the same!”
So maybe you can call it a Satmar or Kalever (which it sort of is) propaganda piece, but it seems truthful to me. And AviK and others will continue to spout that it’s their choice etc… I just had to put it out there despite the difficulty and time involved, because is this the reason we needed a Jewish state? And yes to a great extent Zionism is still the yetzer hora, albeit not the only one.
MammeleParticipantWhat’s the biggest obstacle?
There is no class-room space in Charaidi mosdos for children of French immigrants. I currently have a list of over 1,000 children that have arrived in the past 5 months and in many towns/cities there ar no ehrliche mosdos that can accept them.
In Netanya for example, where many immigrants have settled, there are over 350 children that come from religious mosdos in France that have no space in similar schools in Netanya. This is a catastrophe! There are askonim that are trying to create a special school for the French kids.
Children that were registered in France in religious schools like “Merkaz Hatorah” and “Otzer Hatorah”, where boys and girls are separated, are encouraged by the Soknot to attend secular or semi-religious co-Ed schools.
How can we influence the parents?
The key is to get them in a timely manner. The French Jews keep their plans to leave France secret until they are already on the plane. They fear the government there and Ayin Hora. We find out about them after they arrive, and by that time they are already in the hands of the [Israeli] government.
Once the children are registered in secular schools, it’s much harder to convince the parents to withdraw their kids and place them in religious schools.
The ” Soknot” gives money. The government finances the first two years of education for all immigrant children. That’s a lot of money.
To be finished…
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