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To see what kind of ridiculous things people come up with to say.
I’m sure there are some here who will remember more details, but at least one bachur died in a car accident that involved drinking on Purim in Baltimore several years ago. I think he was with a group collecting tzedaka on Purim night (well before the seuda). I don’t have time to look for a link now. If anyone remembers and has more details, this probably would be a good forum to post them!
I went to a shadchan who set me up with a girl she had never met. The girl’s friend’s sister had boarded at the shadchan’s home for a few years, and apparently was talking about this girl all the time. The shadchan thought she was right for me, so she set it up. We dated about 3 months before we got engaged. We were engaged on Thanksgiving day, and that Sunday I took my kalla over to finally meet the shadchan!
One other funny story that also happened. The girl, at the time, lived in Flatbush. She lived with a few other girls in the upstairs of a two family home. When I first started calling her – before we even went out – I would leave messages on her answering machine, but she never called me back. Finally, I called the shadchan and explained my predicament. After finally speaking to the girl the first time, I heard “the rest of the story.” Her bedroom was the sun room, with windows all around. The room would get so hot during the day that her answering machine would overheat. She put it in the fridge to cool it down, but any messages on it were gone!
I always opened the car door for the young ladies I dated. It just seemed like “the right thing to do.” After all, my father always opened the car door for my mother – and still does, even after 50 years of marriage (bli e”h). My father was always a “menchlich” kind of person, and I’m sure that’s why he always opens the car door – to honor my mother. It has nothing to do with imitating Gentiles.
(Let it also be known that my wife, even when we were dating, always leaned over after I let her into the car and unlocked my door from the inside.)
(Let it also be known that the Rav of the shule where I grew up – someone who learned in Bais Yosef/Navordok before he escaped from the Holocaust – always opened the car door for his wife. I remember watching very vividly as they would leave shule functions over the years.)
I am not a hat wearer, not am I a jacket wearer, for davening.
Before we made aliyah, I occasionally davened in shules where the vast majority of men there wore hats and/or jackets. This brought up questions in my mind that I was never able to answer. For example:
Suppose one only has a hat that is somewhat smashed or stained. Is it better to daven with that kind of hat than not wear one at all? What about stains on the jacket? A stained tie? I was actually embarrassed at the way some of these gentlemen dressed in the name of “kavod.” This is not even mentioning those that would come in with a dark blue pinstriped suit jacket, matched with brown pants. They were so worried about how they dressed, but wouldn’t take five minutes to match? That’s “kavod?”
Say what you want about how people here in Israel dress to daven, but I’ll take it any day of the week. Maybe some of the men do show up in jeans, and maybe there are teenagers who have hair that’s a bit long. But they come to minyan. Every day. They sit in shule between mincha and ma’ariv every evening and learn. They learn in shule at night. I still say it’s what’s in your heart.
The Vaad HaRabbonim, Rabbinical Council of Greater Baltimore urges everyone to join in a community-wide Tefillah gathering for Eretz Yisrael at Bnai Jacob Shaarei Zion, 6602 Park Heights Ave, Motzei Asara B’Teves, Tuesday, Jan. 6, 2009, at 7:30 pm.
Joseph,
Head on down to Gaza and tell them you’re not a Zionist. They’ll lynch you whether you’re a Zionist or not. In case you missed it, Tzahal defends the Jews that live here, Zionist or not.
“The Israeli Army is an immoral Un-Jewish service.”
I am guessing, Joseph, that you have not been in the Israeli army, so you really should just keep quiet.
Well, I’ve lost 23 pounds since Rosh Hashana, so I know it’s not me.
Let’s see – aren’t these the very same lights sold here in Israel, the ones that people use to decorate their succas? The answer is YES. I have seen packages of lights here in Yerushalayim with “Saba Succa” on them. “Sabba Succa,” in the non-Jewish world, is known as “Santa.” What are people going to say now, that it’s assur to walk down the street this time of year because someone might look at the lights?
If you have a Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, or Rebbe who allows smoking, perhaps it’s time to find a new Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, or Rebbe.
Joseph, Hebrew is the language spoken in Israel. I know you feel that’s unfortunate, but that’s the way it is. Since more people here speak Hebrew (since it’s the official language and all that), it’s better to have Hebrew skills – unless you’re limiting yourself to living and working only in parts of Yerushalayim, Bney Brak, or perhaps RBS.
I would suggest that some of you read the following regarding links of cigars to cancer:
Cigar smoking raises your risk of cancer and death
“Cigar smoking increases your risk of death from many cancers, including:
* lung
* lip, tongue, mouth, throat (oral cavity)
* esophagus (the tube connecting the mouth to the stomach)
* voice box (larynx)
Studies have shown that regular cigar smokers are 4 to 10 times more likely to die from cancers of the mouth, larynx, and esophagus than non-smokers. For those who inhale, cigar smoking appears to be linked to death from cancer of the pancreas and bladder, too.” (from http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigar_Smoking.asp)
“What about secondhand cigar smoke?
Because cigars contain more tobacco than cigarettes, and because they often burn for much longer, they give off greater amounts of secondhand smoke. This is also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) or passive smoke. Secondhand smoke includes both the smoke from the end of the burning cigar and the smoke exhaled by the smoker.
In general, secondhand smoke from cigars contains many of the same toxins (poisons) and carcinogens (cancer causing agents) as cigarette smoke, but in higher concentrations. Some of the toxins or irritants in cigar smoke include:
* carbon monoxide
* nicotine
* hydrogen cyanide
* ammonia
* volatile aldehydes
Cigar smoke includes the following agents that cause cancer (carcinogens):
* benzene
* aromatic amines (especially carcinogens such as 2-naphthylamine and 4-aminobiphenyl)
* vinyl chloride
* ethylene oxide
* arsenic
* chromium
* cadmium
* nitrosamines
* polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons”
(from http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigar_Smoking.asp)
Being among huge crowds of Anglos is not necessarily the best thing. On one hand, your kids will have an easier time in school if they are in an area that’s used to dealing with olim. On the other hand, the Hebrew skills develop much faster if you are not among so many olim. We rejected Beit Shemesh for the same reason Anonymouse1079 did. Almost all the kids in our neighborhood here (in the Shomron) were born here to American parents, so they are fluent in, and prefer to speak, Hebrew. My kids’ Hebrew is much better than their friends in Beit Shemesh who have been here longer.
“Every working Jew should adopt a Yissoschor/Zevulin relationship, and adopt a Kollel Yungerman as a partner who he should support — thereby fulfilling ones obligation to learn (and support) Torah.”
So you think I should take what’s left of my salary and support someone learning in kollel (and his family as well). Let’s see – in America, after taxes, full tuitions, mortgage (on a small house), food, gas (for the 1 car), gas (for the house) electricity, and clothing (basic stuff here, not designer) and a little bit for the retirement fund, I should take “what’s left” and support a kollel yungerman.
Lest you say I was being extravagant with “what’s left,” please notice I didn’t add in vacations, because vacations were almost always visits and stays with the in-laws, and some day trips. Staying somewhere in a hotel, even for one night, was done once every few years. Notice I didn’t say putting money away for future weddings or into a general bank account, because it wasn’t done. No real extra money available if the fridge lost a gasket, or if the engine in the car blew.
I’m pretty sure we were a pretty typical American frum family. So where is this money going to come from for supporting a kollel fmily?
And what about other tzedaka, for the poor (Jews) who REALLY need money, for things like heat, medicine, and food. Shouldn’t they get priority, since they REALLY can’t work?
Sammygol, nobody is saying kollel guys who have to work become “nobodies.” But, someone, somewhere, has to take the responsibility for training these guys to work. The “someone” is the guys themselves. It’s unfortunate, but that’s how the business world works. Look, years ago I learned with a chavruta who learned a morning seder in yeshiva every day, worked in the afternoon, and went to law school at night (he was already married at that point, with young children). He’s a successful attorney, who still spends several hours every day in the beit midrash. This is an example of what has to be done – not for every kollel guy, but for many, if not most.
Will Hill –
“A woman should not do a mans job. This is part of the reason many (not all) Rabbonim hold woman are forbidden to drive.”
I’d like to see some sources for the “many” Rabbonim. This is quite a generalized statement; can you please back it up with some names? How many is “many?”
I asked my Rav years ago about shaking a woman’s hand in a business situation. His answer was that I shouldn’t extend my hand first, but if she did I should shake it. As usual, those of you who are shouting “assur assur assur” are assuming everything is black and white, with no shades of gray.
(BTW, one of the advantages I’ve noticed here in Israel is that women here who are obviously not dati usually don’t shake my hand, nor do they expect me to shake hands with them. It takes some getting used to, but add that to the reasons to make aliyah.)
Simply not allowing comments on anything would be the best choice.
Joseph said, “You are wrong in my opinion.”
The problem is, Joseph, that you think everyone is wrong 100% of the time.
“Remember that you made the decision to make aliya, not your kids. You are pulling them away from all that is familiar-it could be their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors, best friend, a teacher they were looking forward to having, and the English language. It is vital to your children’s welfare that you involve them in their new life, and share how much you love it here and why.”
It is also vital that you not drag them across the ocean kicking and screaming, especially with older kids. If the kids seriously don’t want to come, then perhaps you should wait, as painful as it may be. One of the worst things you can do is force kids to make aliyah against their will.
Also, not all schools are six days a week. That may be true for boys. I have a girls in middle school and 10th grade, and they have school Sunday-Thursday. My oldest, in 11th grade, has 1/2 days on Fridays once or twice a month (mostly for bagruyot classes).
When the kids were little, we gave them little things each night – crayons, drawing stuff, painting kits, dolls, etc. The grandparents gave them big stuff, but only 1 thing to each kid. Now that they are older, they get money or gift certificates – and we take them out for dinner one night.
“I’m just saying don’t fall into this Nefesh B’nefesh induced Pro-Aliya delusional fantasy that just because you’re making “ALIYA” life in EY will be wonderful & rosy.”
If anything, I would say that NbN was pretty convincing that making aliyah would NOY be easy; I never got the impression from them that life here would be one big party.
“Make a well thought out, rational decision.” For sure, for sure . . . coming on a whim, without any research, is the worst thing anyone could do.
Shabbat shalom!
“If you’re working locally 99 percent chance you’re earning peanuts & in the same exact situation as the kid in Switzerland.”
Except, of course, there is a mitzva is to live in Israel. The Torah does not mention Switzerland.
Joseph,
You know, one of the things about becoming a respected Rav or Posek is the ability to learn to address an entire situation, “the whole story.” A Rev learns, through experience, that there are shades of gray in the world (despite what some people on YWN would have you believe). Stop judging everything in black and white, and the klal would be much better off. You don’t know what happened at the bowling alley, you were not there, so stop trying to blow something out of proportion that you know nothing about.
“Mamashtakah, no disprespect but The Shomron??? This is not usually the first choice for those wishing to live in EY and I was referrng to the main cities / localities such as Eilad, Ashdod, parts of Yerushalayim, Petach Tikva, Bayit Vegan, etc.”
Yes, the Shomron! We picked a place that we knew we could afford, and wasn’t so big that we would be “swallowed up.” Look at it this way – Ma’ale Adumim had over 40 families making aliyah there this past summer. When we came – the summer before – we were the only family making aliyah directly here. There was one family, the summer before we came, that made aliyah directly here. That’s one family per year, instead of having to divide the available resources among 40 families.
Out yishuv is smaller. There is a high level of Torah learning here. Some of the streets are closed on Shabbat. We have a hesder yeshiva. The place is small enough that we have met many, many people, and large enough that we have amenities as well (a shopping/strip mall, offices for all the health plans, a library, a pool/health club, etc.). Many people commute to Tel Aviv and the surrounding hi-tech areas. We’re only an hour from Yerushalayim by car.
The Shomron is beautiful, and it’s not as far out as you think.
Nobody – not all rents are astronomically high. It depends where you live. If you insist on living in a totally Anglo area, the rents are higher. If you live in the Shomron, they aren’t.
Notpashut – I also live here, and rarely have I seen such illogical and completely WRONG advice.
“If your oldest is less then ten or your youngest is over twenty – by all means,feel free to come. Otherwise – forget it!” I can tell you of at least 10 families, off the top of my head, who came with teenagers who are doing very well, including us, B”H. We had (and have) a positive attitude, and so do our kids. They speak Hebrew well, are doing pretty well in school, and have many friends. Maybe we did better because we didn’t rely on “professionals” to tell us we were wrong. Maybe it’s because we planned things out before we came.
“IF YOU DON’T HAVE A JOB LINED UP – DON’T COME!” Again, you are wrong. The vast majority of places here will not hire ahead of time; they will wait until you are actually here, with a teudat zehut in hand. Out of all the people I know who made aliyah and are employed full time here in Israel, only one had a job before he made aliyah.
“PLEASE LEAVE AMERICAN IDEAS & VALUES BEHIND.” This is partially true. A person making aliyah has to learn to go with the flow here; however, I can honestly say that if I am polite to the people behind the desks, if I explain that I am new here and don’t know the system, then they will become amazingly helpful. I have been in several government offices here regarding tax forms and other things, and the bureaucrats have all been pretty nice and helpful. But yes, if you come and complain and act like the stereotypical American, you won’t get anywhere.
Let’s emphasize the positive aspects about living here, not the negative. Remember what happened with the meraglim!
All I would say to everyone is to do plenty of research BEFORE you make aliyah. There are many, many resources on the internet. Talk to people in your work field. Research communities. Come on a pilot trip. The more work you put in ahead of time, the better your aliyah will turn out. (We put two full years of research in before we stepped on the plane.)
Hatzlacha to all who come!
Anonymouse,
Please allow me to answer. We made aliyah just over a year ago – end of July, 2007. The packing of the lift is out of your hands. The movers need to ensure that everything fits tightly (so it won’t shift on the boat); they also need to ensure that everything fits into the lift! The boxes go in however they make the best fit.
Are you packing your own boxes? Just sefarim, or everything? We did our own books and sefarim, but the movers did everything else.
Hatzlacha – ask away if you need anything else.
Here’s a helpful job info site: http://www.jobs-israel.com/
Also, there’s an organization called Kehillot Tehilla (www.kehillottehilla.com), which deals with finding realestate, housing, communities, etc. The put out a wonderful booklet called Bayit Ne’eman B’Yisrael, which lists dozens and dozens of communities, and all sorts of information about each one – % of dati, % of English speakers, and other stuff you will need to know.
Chuck Schwab,
“Obviously they are NOT so “perfectly” fine and upstanding if they use Facebook.”
And who are YOU to render such an opinion? Please, enlighten me (or us). It must be nice to be able to use anonymity to get away with saying such a thing.
aidle maidle,
You wrote: “To add, the loshon hora that people write on some of the groups made me think, why do people think facebook is a heter to do these things?”
One could make the very same point about the forums here on YW.
aidle maidle,
I did mention that our kids have limited computer time. I have their passwords only; even their Ema does not have them. I watch them like a hawk; just ask them. They can have Facebook, as long as they abide by my rules. They really “need” it to stay in touch with their American friends. Aliyah for teenagers is hard enough; I wouldn’t want to take this away from them. Thus, we have the rules.
ujm.
Shavua tov. Facebook may or may not be dangerous, just as a car may or may not be dangerous. It depends on the person. If a parent is responsible enough to really and truly lay down and follow strict rules about it, then there is no problem. My kids certainly don’t troll Facebook looking for friends – they connect with people they already know.
Thursday night is deli nite. Pick up deli during the day, and have sandwiches and knishes for supper. It’s fast, filling, and doesn’t take up a great deal of time.
Facebook is excellent for keeping up with friends, and can be a big help in emergencies. A very close friend of mine was recently niftar in Cleveland, and he was buried here (Israel). Facebook was a huge help in sending out tehillim requests, as well as keeping everyone informed about when the plane was landing and the time to meet at the cemetery.
My kids have Facebook, as it helps them stay in touch with their friends from America. I have rules about their access that I enforce. I have their login names and passwords, and I log on as them when ever I want; that way I can check on their friend lists, see what they are doing, etc. They are not thrilled about this, but they know that is the rule for having Facebook. It’s better that they know that I can and do go online and check. (BTW, they have limited computer time; I passworded their computer, and only I know the passwords. Each kid has a certain amount of time per week on the PC, not including time needed for school work.)
Shabbat shalom to all.
We (my family) made aliyah about 1 1/3 years ago, and have never been happier. We live in the Shomron.
Wolf,
You’re a little off. The couple received $1000. He gave $100 for tzedaka, some to the landlord, and he paid ?1,000 for the etrog (equivalent to about $380, at a 3.80 conversion rate)- NOT $900. That’s a big difference!
“In all seriousness, are there any rabbanim or gedolim who have come out with a statement that if Obama wins (because there is a great possibility of him winning) all Yidden should go to Eretz Yiroel?”
I thought the Torah already made that statement.
The Rav from our “pre-aliyah” shule in Baltimore actually made arrangements to ship etrogim back to E”Y.
Joseph,
The only problem with #4 is that Nixon was not President in 1967. Johnson was. Nixon was elected in 1968 and began serving in 1969. Perhaps you meant that Nixon sent emergency arms during the Yom Kippur War in 1973. Even then, he and Kissenger had to be begged to send them – only the threat that Israel would arm and use nuclear missiles got Nixon to send the weapons.
You neglected to mention that Ford pardoned Nixon, which was a huge mistake. Nixon should have been prosecuted.
Eisenhower is viewed as a weak President. Being a “Victorious General of Allied Forces” does not make him a good President.
Chag Samayach!
I davened at a shule up the street which had 4 minyanim going. I davened with the Sephardi minyan that began at 7:30 (Hodu) and finished at about 11. No drasha, no shlepped out me shebayrachs, but there was singing. The main minyan began at 7:30 and finished a bit after 12. They had a “choir” with the chazzan and a drasha. My kids went to the 7 a.m. minyan which finished at about 11 or so. (Also no drasha.) I think what shleps it out are the long me shebayrachs that go on forever, and many of the drashos that go on and on.
Take some trips to communities outside of Yerushalayim, to see how people really live. Spend some time away from the tourist areas.
Make your trip into a mini-pilot trip, which will hopefully help you in planning your forthcoming aliyah.
Intelligent,
Religious or not, they are still Jewish. You can have nine of the frummest guys on an airplane, but one reform guy still makes the minyan. Just because you “can take the heat” does not mean that you are right in your beliefs.
Bugnot, you forgot two questions:
Does the mother use a white tablecloth for Shabbos?
Does the mother server ground meat as part of the Shabbos meal?
Torahis1, you forgot to ask what color tablecloth they use for Shabbat.
Try Israel. Remember, anyplace in E”Y has more kedusha than anyplace in the U.S.
As far as opening the door for a female date – I always did it then, and still do it now for my wife. Incidentally, she impressed me because after I opened the door for her, she would lean across and unlock my door from the inside. I agree with oomis1105, this is simply good manners.
The saddest thing about this discussion is that you are talking about someone davka coming to E”Y for a year or two, instead of a permanent commitment to coming and staying in E”Y.
Justsomeguy, I can’t believe you would stoop to the level of mentioning “parading around town in a bikini,” R”L. This is a serious discussion, please keep your head on straight here.
Bogen,
You forgot to add the words “in my humble opinion.” To make such sweeping generalizations about being disrespectful is being, well, disrespectful.
There are many people here, chashuv people who daven with a minyan 3 times a day, who learn every day, who do not have TVs in their houses, who would stongly disagree with you. None of them wear a hat to daven, and many of them wear sandals or Crocs.
Perhaps we need a Kol Koreh to ban visits to the mountains.