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Charliehall, for years the medina has been cutting back on avreichim benefits while spending on all sorts of anti-Torah activities, arresting people who encourage tznius, etc. I’ll pay their taxes in the regular course of life and to avoid their punishments, but dina de-malchusa isn’t shayach.
Wolf, wolf …. Of course none of those things are assur for a husband to do. They can even be chessed. But the situation described is one of reversing roles. These roles have proved themselves in turning out good yidden and are sometimes required by halacha.
I’d back off. There are things a 14-year-old cannot know, even about his own brother. And what if the girl’s parents can’t support?
Another modern deviation. Assur.
We had a few of these in RBS when the neighborhood was still coming together. We let those families know in the firmest way that they had to straighten things out quickly and permanently. It ended well.
How can one daven for something that’s assur to even know about? Isn’t Purim over?
It’s unnecessary and possibly assur. Either way, no Ben Torah will accept a shidduch with their daughters.
Nearly 3 years ago, Harav Elyashiv, Harav Kanievsky, Harav Karlitz, and Harav Vosner paskened that it is assur. Why is this being debated now?
The yeshiva was right. With geder arayos you can’t be too careful. Remember that this involves 7th grade, not sem.
To Sam2, I spoke of the weakness of the tzibur, not the gedolim r”l! Today the tzibur is willing to do away with bedie’eveds and exceptions that poskim used to accept because the tzibur was on that madreiga. This is why so many things that used to be accepted can be straightened out now: shiras nashim, mixed buses, MO kulos, chalav akum, etc.
Previous events didn’t have a mechitza because the weakness of the tzibur made it necessary to accept bedi’eved loopholes and exceptions. It is good news that we are coming back to ourselves. This quarter million dollars is definitely going where it’s needed.
I don’t understand how this discussion is allowed after the gedolim paskened against jeans in all colors and for all purposes. Is the next discussion going to be about what TV shows we should be watching?
You are right. Here in EY it’s also a simple issur that we will correct as soon as we can. In Emanuel it already began. In America, I don’t think even the Republicans will do it.
Cantoresq, the system you are criticizing is required by gedolim, RYs, etc. It isn’t working because the girls are brought up right but their own parents don’t think they have to give Kollel support. As a result, many boys go off the program (“working boys”) and are not fit for shidduch. People can’t wreck the system and then complain that it doesn’t work.
Kollel support is not for the avreich, it’s for Torah. It doesn’t come from the in-laws, it comes from what Hashem deposited with them for this purpose. Avreichim learn so the world will exist. Boys shouldn’t have to “demand” support. If they learn, Hashem entitles them to it. If the in laws have a problem with this, it’s because they think “their” money is theirs or spent it on wrong things. Avreichim are our path to geula and we cannot afford to lose any of them to people who caught the disease of Western materialism.
The problem is deeper than boys taavos. If a family with teenage girls allows boys to eat with them on Shabbos, it will hurt the girls shidduch chances r”l. That should end the disussion.
The Beis Shemesh solution doesn’t look so extreme anymore.
In EY the issues are clearer. Here it’s assur to go into a sports place to play or to watch because of hisyavnus, nosen yad lechillul Shabbos, medarchei haEmorim, moshav leitzim, bitul Torah, bitul zman, bechukosayhen, tznius, and maris ayin.
It’s less impressive than it sounds. In his “hesder” program, Jewish boys serve in an army that drafts females, which is assur by all the gedolim even if they don’t sing. It’s no great heroism for him to resign from the program while leaving the bachurim in. Also, the army keeps typical RZ loophole Yiddishkeit in all other things (Shabbos, kashrus, davening etc.) and where is his protest over that?
Part of the answer is to get rid of modern influences and negiyos. First, boys and girls should not be allowed to turn down shidduchim “just because.” If the parents, the boy’s rav, and the shadchen agree that it’s a good match, that should be that. Second, questions of finances should be handed to a beis din that can do hefker beis din. It will decide how much support the kalah’s parents will give on the basis of the boy’s learning. Do these two things and the crisis will disappear.