Abba bar Aristotle posted the following:

The Chofetz Chaim in Ahavas Chesed writes that the main giving of Maaser should be to help support people who are preparing to teach Torah.

I strongly encourage you to follow this advice.

????? ????? ???, ???? ???? ?????

sounds like talking to me, unless all conversation is “striclty professional” i don’t have any friends with whom i dont have casual conversation, light banter, and the occasion humorous exchange.

pretty sure thats covered.

^_^

incidentally, i once heard a rav ask (very seriously, he wasn’t being facetious at all) why does the shulchan aruch say ??? ??? ? wouldn’t one ??? have been enough? after all, the word ??? already exists to provide emphasis, it doesn’t add to the halacha at all. he said this lashon is extremely rare in shulchan aruch.

he answered that the first ??? is there because some people will say, ok but not me i can handle it, i am capable of platonic relationships. to that person we say ??? ! STAY AWAY! so why the second ??? ? because there will STILL be people EVEN AFTER we said STAY AWAY ??? who will say, but i have a rationalization! we only talk/we are cousins/we grew up together/etc!!!! therefore says the shulchan aruch ??? ??? EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL RATIONALE, JUST STAY AWAY! VERY FAR AWAY!

yep.

let me explain, in case i wasn’t clear. the fact that i am not scholarly enough to hand down a psak on the issue does not mean i am an ignoramous. there is ample evidence that many consider the practice of “not touching the beard” to be an issue rooted in halacha, not merely an issue of conflicting minhagim. the reason i quoted the minchas eluzar is because he is one of the most recent mekoros of a halachic discourse of the issue, and indeed some factions of klal yisroel quote him as a source that trimming ones beard at all is an absolute issur, and not a minhag at all.

the reason i quoted the chafetz chaims letter is because he also in his letter treats it as a halachic issue. however, he does not paskin on the issue, he merely stresses that those who choose to follow the psak that permits beard trimming are doing so to indulge in a detestable habit. again, he treats it as a halachic issue, NOT an issue of minhag or divrei kabala.

therefore, even though you or someone else might come from a community where the accepted psak, and thus your mesorah, is to trim the beard, and therefore FOR YOU it would only be a chumra or minhag to take upon yourself to not do so, that may not be true for someone else.

so to write on a public forum the words “When you talk about people “who wouldn’t touch their beards” i.e. not even to shorten with a scissors, that is not a Halachic issue, but one based on Minhag and Kabballah.” is in fact FALSE. this is because you do not know who might be reading your post, and even if it is true for some members of klal yisroel, for others this is indeed a HALACHIC ISSUE of serious import, for which they might need to consult a qualified rav.

incidentally, the shailos utshevos of the minchas eluzar, and the shailos utshevos of those he quotes and rebuffs, absolutely definitely positively completely fall within the realm of halacha seforim. the minchas eluzar was not writing for his or our amusement, and he felt that trimming ones beard at all is a serious issur, and that brings it into the arena of modern-day halacha.

just for reference, an issue of minhag for example might be using olive oil to light ner shabbos instead of wax. the reason it is an issue of minhag as opposed to halacha is because it the poskim have clearly been machria that one may suffice to use wax. thus, the issue of olive oil instead of wax can be called an issue of minhagim. the ramifications of this are many, among them might be that if you grew up in a household using olive oil, or you did so yourself, but then you want to change, it may be possible to do so merely by being matir neder (THIS IS NOT A PSAK, I AM NOT A POSEK) however, if you are part of a community that believes that trimming the beard is an issur, it may be much more complicated to change your derech, as you are now changing your halachic mesorah. this doesn’t mean it cant be done. i am just trying to demonstrate what it means when an issue is halachic in nature as opposed to one rooted in minhag.

i cannot discuss halacha midivrei kaballah, as that is another issue entirely, and btw is not given enough respect i think by many, as it in fact is a very serious issue.

^_^ hope i made myself clear!

lovinghalacha

Member

Can something like a platonic relationship exist? Amongst family members (outside of siblings obviously)?

POSTED 1 DAY AGO #

Sam2

Member

Some believe platonic relationships can exist even with non-family. A lot of people think they can’t. Some would be appalled at the idea that cousins of opposite genders can be friends while others would be appalled at the idea that they can’t. It depends on the community and the people.

how interesting. here’s a little tidbit for you. when the torah was given at har sinai, one of the psukim mentions the word bechi, which means crying. the meforshim explain (there are other explanations given) that even though the simcha was so great, many marriages had to be dissolved because of the issurei haarayos that were given at matan torah! can you imagine? all those forbidden relationships existed!

now, maybe you will say, yes but surely it wasn’t commonplace!

well then. some meforshim further explain that in fact it’s puzzling, why DID the torah assur the arayos? (obviously genetics isn’t the answer, as people had been doing it for many generations. indeed, most of the early generations of klal yisroel married blood relatives. it would seem that the genetics issue must have come about at a later time (or perhaps are a result of the issur? but thats a little mystical. not my style.). in any case, it isn’t the answer the rishonim give, so it is a moot point.) some take the question even further and ask (read carefully) that indeed this would seem to contradict logic, as the most sensible person for you to marry would be a close relation, SUCH AS A BROTHER MARRYING A SISTER! the reasons are obvious – they are from the same family, so they would be familiar with each others habits which would facilitate the developement of the relationship, in derech of avodas hashem they would have similar haskafic outlooks, and there are many other “minor” reasons it would be beneficial as well (inheritance, etc.) in addition, close family would be the natural first place to look, even outside the brother-sister relationship. meaning, one would naturally pair together a boy with his aunt if his sister wasn’t an option, for the same reasons mentioned above.

now isn’t that fascinating? (puts a whole new spin on why touching derech chiba is, according to (i believe most if not all) poskim, strictly forbidden outside of your mother and father.

the answer the rishonim give is that since people are biased, it could possibly happen that there would be a non-related girl who would really be better suited as an ezer kinegdo, but a man might still rather take his sister, because this way he can avoid a lengthy search for the right person (what about zivug? good question, i dont know, clearly the rishonim were dealing with the question in terms of our hishtadlus), and he already has a relationship with his sister so it’s much easier (or vica versa for girls). THUS hashem insured that we would always enter into a search for the “right” zivug, resulting in the appropriate level of hishtadlus leading up to marriage.

now that doesn’t sound platonic to me.

halacha, incidentally, reflects this to a degree. without parents in the house, it is assur for a brother and sister to live together for more than a week or two (the exact time frame is debated by poskim).

A BROTHER AND SISTER???? can you imagine? well halacha can.

just my two cents ^_^

“When you talk about people “who wouldn’t touch their beards” i.e. not even to shorten with a scissors, that is not a Halachic issue, but one based on Minhag and Kabballah.”

this is far from the truth. (and this is coming from someone who trims his beard and used to shave clean). i do not have the wherewithal to have a scholarly discourse about this, i am simply lacking in knowledge. however, there are QUITE a few major poskim who take issue with jews who do not grow beards.

of special interest in the minchas eluzar, the munkatch rebbe in pre-world war 1 europe, who wrote a lengthy teshuva on the subject, quoting and rebuffing many other poskim who in his time had come out with the “revolutionary” psak that maybe it was ok to not have a beard. he writes in an addendum that he later recieved letters from several of those poskim who surrendered to his superior reasoning, and one who explicitly stated that he (the writer of the letter) wished he had never published his original learning, as he now realized the topic was of far greater importance than that which he orginally ascribed it. i dont know which teshuva it is, i read it (quoted in its entirety) in a sefer about the subject of whether it was ok to cut off one’s beard.

there are also writings from the chofetz chaim on this subject, in which he discusses the matter in far stronger terms than “minhag” or “kabbala”, indeed he writes about the “detestable habit” of those who do not keep their beard.

it is interesting to note that in the opening lines of the minchas elazars teshuva, he remarks how upsetting it is that there are those in society who try to talk about the growing of beards as though it is just a matter of minhag or kabbalah……..

well i do in fact shave my beard. but you should be careful how you talk about it, it DEFINITELY IS a matter of halacha.

maybe popa, but tell me this, if was frustrated and annoyed, should she post here, or in her private diary?

hahaha health you may have missed my point. my point was, who cares if you believe it? hopefully the person who it was supposed to affect believes it, and hopefully it affected them the point i was trying to make was this:

we may never know what really happened in that morgue. but that doctor, who was a sane, rational, and very smart human being really honestly truly truly believed that a dead man came back to life to give him a message from his zeide, and you know what he did with that experience? he went up to the break room and had a laugh. even if it was his neshama talking, a message from hashem it was either way. turns out it wasnt wasted because 10 yrs later it eventually helped nurture a decision to go to arachim, but the bottom line is he did nothing after a man came back from the dead to speak to him (again; thats what he believed)

whether or not a fish spoke is a non-issue. the result, however, is not. we do not have to believe a fish spoke or did not speak, because it will affect us very little whether we view it skeptically or not. are you going to move to yerushalayim and never speak divrei bitul again for the rest of your life if you allow yourself to believe it might have happened? BUT! what about the person who claims it happened to them? did they change as a result?

the rest is just inconsequential.

did you try yam hatorah in far rockaway?

wow ANOTHER anonymous debate! who is taking this seriously, by show of hands?

just fyi, i am involved in arachim, and had the fascinating experience of hearing the following story from a VERY well respected senior arachim lecturer (sorry i dont like to write peoples names on the net)

he met a doctor at a seminar. @ the end of the seminar, the doctor (whose name he told to me, this was a private conversation.) emotionally stated that hearing the proofs of yiddishkeit so rationally presented had changed his life forever. later the lecturer asked him (im shorthanding this), tell me what inspired you to come? he replied, i have been a doctor for many yrs now, but always i had in mind to learn more about my religion one day, because of two reasons, and if not for both, i doubt i would be here. one is people know i am jewish, and sometimes i realize how sad it is that my christian friends, even the most dissasociated ones, have at least a basic idea of their religion, while i had no idea what mine was about.

(posters note:READY FOR IT? HERE IT COMES. anything in parentheses is me talking)

the second reason, is that way back when i was a resident, i was on morgue duty one night (or wherever it is they keep dead bodies in a hospital before being transported out) my duties included making sure people who had died of certain causes were really completely dead by administering increasingly higher electric shocks to the point where a human being could not possibly survive (you can google this for more info). one night an old jewish man was wheeled into the hospital, he had died naturally from a heart attack. he was sent down to me, and i thought about how he reminded me of my grampa, with his long beard and sidelocks. anyways, i administered the regular testing process, and when it was definitively determined that this man was absolutely and completely dead i turned around to get the papers to start the paperwork. i was alone down there, since in the hospital i was in they dont usually station more than one person at a time down there unless needed. when i turned back to the body he was staring straight at me and sitting up! i was more frightened than i had ever been in my life! he looked straight at me, and using my full hebrew name (ploni ben ploni) which NO ONE KNEW & i hadnt heard since my gramps made me have a barmitzvah, he said to me:

DO YOU PUT ON TEFILLIN? my gramps had bought me a pair for my barmitzvah, but after he died, i never used them again, it had only been to humor him anyway. DO YOU SAY KADDISH FOR YOUR FATHER? he had recently died. i mutely shook my head no. the dead mans burning eyes looked straight into mine and he shouted YOUR ZEIDY PLONI BEN PLONI (he used his full hebrew name) IS VERY SAD BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIONS! PUT ON TEFILLIN! SAY KADDISH FOR YOUR FATHER! HE ASKED ME TO GIVE YOU THIS MESSAGE! then the man collapsed, completely lifeless, back on the table.

i was so shaken i could not move for a long time. eventually i went to the break room, where some of the other doctors saw me. concerned, they asked what happened. when i told them, they all looked at each other, and then burst out laughing. one of them informed me that it wasnt uncommon for people to have “experiences” while working alone with the dead, usually because they were tired at the end of a shift of working only with dead bodies. we all had a great laugh together about it. but i knew what had happened there was very very real. and so i resolved to one day do something about it, if only for my zeidy.

well thats the story, and fyi the lecturer when he told it to me said he asked the man questions about details in the morgue room and other things, until he himself was satisfied that this actually happened. he is a BIG skeptic and hates all things mystical, but he told me that he completely believed that this doctor, a top notch professional who had an excellent reputation (and still does) had really had that experience.

the lecturer then went to say “the amazing thing was, that was only ONE OF THE TWO reasons he went to the seminar.”

so do strange things really happen? probably. but really, all thats important is how it affects you.

good night!