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Relax nitpicker, its just the current fad.
PBA – are you serious ? I didn’t know (and never thought about) how the sizes work. But you are so dead on, I’m rolling. Guess Italians don’t eat chulent.
The heimishe stores – you know, label says “made in Italy”, and was really made to spec. in China by the store – always have bigger waists, or at least a lot of room to let out.
I wouldn’t call it silly and irrelevant. I do agree that unfortunately often an otherwise responsible productive guy will be lax in this area, and you therefore won’t get the complete picture from this detail.
R’ Meir (Marcus) Lehman has a GREAT Hagada. I don’t think it’s in print though.
“And no, I’ve never studied those subjects, and no, I don’t know at all how G-d runs the world. None of us do.”
But some of us know what our Chachamim have taught us on the subject. We may never know, without nevua’ah, the meaning of any particular event, but we know things about the “rules”.
So you agree that they’re nisyonos. But the painful reaction is just part of being human, not His intent. And He didn’t realize that when He gave it to you, huh ?
And what’s with the pictures ?
A man may not study a women to enjoy her beauty (“mistakel”).
There are those who differentiate between photographers and the other professions mentioned, because his job is specifically to focus on the women’s face and make sure she looks good.
hershi – very doubtful that lifnei iver is involved, anyone can easily watch anything else.
Yes, the first thing is to prioritize. Do you really need to work full time ? What does the money go for ? Is it worth it ?
Gatesheader – that last point I agree with, you’re def. in a different position than a FB.
1. Yiras Shamayim should require you not to be so confident about it.
yitzy99 – And you think people want to be overweight ? So why don’t they lose weight ? Bingo – it clashes with something inside! Ta’avah, Atzlus,Dimyon, etc. No different than breaking any other midah.
Care to explain yourself ? Why is it a blessing ?
Is everything that happens to you a blessing ? Feels good ?
Ever studied these subjects, or you just let your gut tell you how He runs the world ?
Hey Toi! You mean we can just continue that conversation here?! Here I go…
You could enter a conversation you know nothing about, be outrageous and indignant, and cause it to become explicit enough that it will be closed. Sound familiar ?
RK – true, but that would start after you’ve done your reasonable best. To leave it all up to that…
NOMTW – Hey, I said I liked your post, back off 🙂
You def. SHOULD think about these things – you just need to bear in mind that we can’t always know the answers.
Rule of thumb ? (Ramchal- )Punishments and the like are His business, and we never really know that. There is always another perspective though – what we can take out of it, and grow from. That we need to think about, how to use it to grow, what could this be telling me about my life. “Growing pains”.
RK – true, but that would start after you’ve done your reasonable best. To leave it all up to that…
NOMTW – Hey, I said I liked your post, back off 🙂
You def. SHOULD
MP – guy, girl, makes no difference, just the example is usually used that way (especially on this forum).
“Works for me” – certainly could be, my point was that it’s not realistic. Are you so biased by your own situation that you can’t imagine that there’s someone otherwise compatible for you, who unfortunately is turned off by your situation, and that is causing you difficulty ? And that you are meant to have this difficulty, and grow from it ?
I didn’t ask anything about your personal life. Nor do i care. I was just expressing the idea that this isn’t some theoretical conversation, and has strong implications if you stand by what you wrote.
As I posted earlier from the Chazon Ish, you may not avoid such things excessively, as this has the reverse effect than intended. We are not smarter than the Torah.
Yes, according to Ger the comparison was wrong. But that’s exactly the point – they took something which has inherent value, and turned it into pretzels (and worse).
“because it weeds out the ones that are turned off by it, thereby saving me time and energy for the ones that are okay with it.”
This argument makes no sense. If he’d be ok with it, you wouldn’t want him weeded out!
And if what you really mean that because he’s turned off, that’s an indicator that he’s not for me – well, I really don’t like such arguments.
Just as an example: A child born with major physical/mental handicaps. Or that develops a serious disease. Or if you do, for that matter. What a blessing! Do you wish for it.
Your mistake (mainly) is viwing these areas as things to be avoided, that “happen” to be muttar with your wife. (or as you so wonderfully put it, “obligated” to do. Reminds me of 1984 – “your duty to the party”.)
I’m hoping you’re not married, and will iy”H get a decent shmuz. If you are…..
yitayningwut – in the way he meant it – with an ervah ? yes.
Just as an aside –
1. The argument goes the other way around – with most guys in kolel, how could they give off tuition for that, and survive ?
2. Tuition is substantially cheaper than in NY.
NOMTW wrote a very sensible OP (though a bit clearer in the follow-up post). She simply said “looks are not everything”. That’s a very reasonable, important statement.
Along come a bunch of comments, telling us that “it’s the inside that counts, lasts” etc.
Why stop at looks ? Why do we care about money ? Prestige ? Etc, etc. Let’s aim for a utopian society!
No – we’re humans. We care about these things. And we need to try to keep them in moderation.
We don’t care about looks, who cares if she’s handicapped ? Deaf ? etc. etc. She’s beautiful inside! Yes such people deserve a good shidduch. But the (very normal) reality of the world is that these things cause difficulties.
If a girl doesn’t look good, that’s a nisayon – no different than if she would have any other physical condition. But there’s no excuse for someone in shidduchim not to try to look good.
[For the record: my wife is and always was overweight.I am very happily married.]
PBA – I think I’ve got your posting personality just fine. In this case, I felt that was unnecessarily hurtful.
Yitzchokm – the comparison was fine. There are kosher pretzels, and treife ones. One is muttar and one is assur. There are even times that eating pretzels may be a mitzvah. Same with the hand-holding. (Sam2- – hey, we agree!)
Do you think most people in SA planned on ending up there ? It’s a downward spiral. Make proper s’yugim and you won’t run into problems.
The sugya of “kol hagadol m’chaveiro yitzro gadol mimenu” is very deep. However understood, however, I’ve always assumed that Abaye was pretty normal and resonsible, and he didn’t trust himself with some pretty big, and what you’d consider “abnormal”, nisyonos.
There are plenty of people who aren’t able to get past the filters. If you know that you can’t, or if you really know your kids computer knowledge, it works fine.
Gatesheader – May I please introduce you to a very integral part of yourself ? It’s called your yetzer harah. He’s very gifted at attacking normal, responsible people.
May I please introduce you to a mitzvah called “yiras shamayim” ? It’s about assuming you are more vulnerable to doing the wrong thing than you think.
Let us not think that we lack the kedusha they have. The opposite is usually true.
The Chazon Ish points out that excessive effort to avoid something will lead to the exact same effect as excessive indulgence. Overly avoiding such things leads to obsessive thinking about them, not the reverse. Therefore he says we must not be smarter than the Torah, and realize that the Torah has prescribed for us the perfect middle ground.
Similar situation in Eretz Yisrael, when they have Chol Hamoed and Chutzniks have Yom Tov.
Stay at home dads: why do you celebrate Pesach ? 😉
besalel – I did not enter this debate. I did not give an opinion about a woman who says that being a housewife is not for her. I simply asked that people should be honest about their feelings.
Nechomah did not say anything about women who say they don’t want to stay at home. “Some women need a little break from their kids” is what she said. I hear this all the time, and its garbage. You can take breaks, be stimulated, work a few hours, volunteer etc. Working full time leaves you with precious little time with your kids, its not “a little break”.
If you don’t like taking care of your kids, just say so. Then we can discuss that.
I clearly said that I’m not talking about financial considerations.
I didn’t say there’s something wrong with stimulation.
You said that the choice between staying or working was dependent on the individual, because some can’t stay at home all day etc.
I pointed out that that is a commonly given reason, which I consider a cover-up for their real reason.
I wasn’t trying to express the importance of staying home – simply pointing out that many women don’t like it a bit, and don’t admit to it.
The prices are ridiculous anyway, as diamond prices are artificially controlled by limiting the supply.
Hope you don’t have any gneivas da’as up your sleeve
polls and strict halachah do not mix.
PBA – you post an awful lot about shidduchim for someone not aware that the situation is such that for many girls getting ideas and going out is a major step forward.
I’ve heard many interesting definitions of a “Gadol”, but being in charge of a Yeshiva def. ranks as one of the most superficial ones.
“Dosen’t always work”
To think a segulah must work is missing some pretty basic Emunah that there is Someone running the world making decisions, and you can’t force Him to do anything. Just as Tefilah doesn’t always accomplish what you hoped it would, or any mitzvah you do for a specific zchus.
miritchka – I’ve been in many shuls etc on Sundays, I don’t see them overflowing with those who really wish they could learn more…
OOM – The topic is women working. Nechomah said women need to get out. I questioned why that required them to become “working mothers”. She responded by explaining that they need stimulation, not just a break, and questioned by raising the point. So I explained that I think her post is a typical cop-out reason given for women working, covering up for the simple fact that they don’t feel satisfied in their roles.
Think First – Its not enough to realize the importance. They need to rediscover the inherent satisfaction in the job. And that’s pretty difficult, seeing as they’re prepared for twenty years for anything but.
Aha. I suspected, but didn’t know GAW well enough.
Thank You Toi, precisely my point above. If there’s one argument you want to try to bang into people’s heads here, that should be it.
Wolf – sounds like that’s just a question about what they’re used to/ will be comfortable with. The question was asking for reasons to prefer one system to another.
Freddy (Fried ?) and Tzaddok Katz are up-and-coming in Lkwd.
Change the eating patterns for the whole home. The possible humiliation is a far greater issue than the weight.
The point is that after marriage there is commitment, which is a game changer.
besalel – sefer torah written bi a Min gets burned. No applications – but your rule is wrong.
GAW – excuse my ignorance. “Poe” ?
Wolf – I agree that this affects many yeshivah policies, but this is so taken for granted these days that I don’t think its relevant to this topic. Conformity, yes.
MichaelC – the tefilah to succeed in a robbery is not futile, check the source.
Nechomah – the point is I don’t buy it.
147 – Have you ever stopped and thought why indeed you feel this need to use this label when you refer to him ?