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So why bother posting ?
It sounds like you actually have the ability to explain normal, yeshivish hashkofos (people, i’m using this phrase for TOI only, kay?) to the rest of the people here. Instead you often come across sort of…well…whatever. 🙂
In Lakewood, I always get thanks from women when holding open a door for them. Despite looking like a yeshivishe guy.
(Just felt like injecting something positive in this thread)
Toi – are you just trying to shock, or just never have patience to type (or explain yourself) ?
We all understand, I hope, that marriage is meant to help us grow in our midos, actually try to change our ways that disturb others, and manage to put others before our own, natural ways/tendencies/wants etc.
1)I don’t clean – I HELP to clean.
2)My wife is not my boss to give me permission to do anything – we make decisions together about topics that affect us mutually.
Of course, this whole topic begs another question:
Why do we bother dating and picking a spouse if they will be (hopefully) hormonal and “not themselves” for most (pregnancy, nursing, periods) of the next twenty years ?! 🙂
Juuuust a minute! I don’t want to be grouped with Health on this one! I think his comments are nuts.
a mamin – excuse me, that’s a very stupid assumption. Explaining the difficulty in a situation in no way implies that I did not come through. I feel very confident saying that my wife found me EXTREMELY supportive throughout her pregnancies (and late miscarriage, and journey getting pregnant. But thats a different story.)
oomis – Despite agreeing with the facts, I don’t see the basis for comparing the two and deciding on the more difficult. The physical hardships of the woman in no way diminish the emotional toll it takes on the husband.
All the women here can go read all their comments on the threads about marriage, and the emotional support they think its all about (G-d forbid to have any expectations in any other realm). Now picture your husband taking a siesta from his eomtional duties for several MONTHS. Why can’t you understand that months of the lack of the usual interaction with your spouse, coupled with the need to be an especially attentive spouse from your end (and lets not mention the difficulty of the women’s usual lack of interest in certain areas during these times, ‘cuz ther’s no way you’ll understand THAT), is very difficult ?
It’s very simple. Most of us are not angels, and to be by and large on the giving end, with minimal receiving, emotionally, socially, etc. is a huge task.
Are you guys honestly doing this AGAIN ? Some of your comments are so similar, I think you’re just pasting them from other threads!
Well, then don’t trust many of the suggestions you’ve gotten so far…
Here’s an idea i’ve heard:
G-d def. doesn’t trust me with 500 million. But he might trust me with five – so i’ll play the regular lotto.
I live in a (small) house, in the past have lived in a large apartment. I really don’t understand why Pesach cleaning is such a huge undertaking. A couple of hours, a few times a week, for 2-3 weeks, wife and husband (both of whom have full schedules doing whatever they do) chipping in, and the job gets done. No spring cleaning, rearranging house, but THOROUGH Pesach cleaning.
Why does everyone understand the poor hormonal wife, who’s going through so much, and not the poor husband-of-a-hormonal-wife, who has to put up with her ?! Seriously, its tough for her, so she needs his support. So now that his usual support has gone on siesta for nine months, what does he become, a malach ?
I don’t think men should be telling women how to cope with their difficulties during this time, nor should the women here be giving advice to the men how to deal with it.
I don’t want to comment on individual places, but bear in mind that most places that are much less yeshivish, even if “shtark”, do not compare in level. Exceptions are few and far between.
Sam2 – Let’s say it like this: Most people who eat certain types of matztah based on minhag or halachah, not on preferences, eat hand matzah.
I think parents are def. more involved being “actively mechanech” the older kids. Now it depends what they’re doing.
With some parents that’s great, with some some its horrific.
That’s right Best bubby! Anyone who doesn’t do things your way is just despicable! Everyone has to deal like you, Oh holy Superwoman!
Your holier-than-thou attitude is really nauseous
The Shidduch question can be debated.
The learning is not debatable – it is the best thing possible. I have yet to meet a guy who doesn’t admit, even if he didn’t like it, that it wasn’t the best thing for his learning.
And if you never sat through it (and continued learning in BMG after the chasunah) don’t comment on this.
147 – His main point, as he wrote in his book, is that the relationship is more delicate, not having the comfort of 20+ years of history. Therefore don’t take the liberties you would with a child, whom you assume will understand you, be forgiving etc.
Do’t remember exact seforim, but I remember tshuvos about lotteries, not directly about this but with they were working with the assumption of a chance per ticket.
It’s not really an “agency”, its a woman named Chani (an Israeli) in Westgate. Can’t tell you more besides the number. I’ll try again: 987-6060
a) I agree with your reasoning, but there happen to be chashuve poskim who argue.
b) Come on – He was mevatel and bodeik, he’s not oveir anything.
farrocks – I suppose it is possible to feel that. But in the majority of cases, I believe the normal emotions are that your child is your child, and no one else is, and the same for a parent. And the forced expectation (either by MIL or DIL) for it to be different can cause many problems.
There are those who argue.
One possible reason is that since many are not nohaig to sell real chometz, you clearly did mean to include it in your sale.
You did not say what your wife feels,or at least your impression of her feelings.
If she feels she is building the relationship at her pace, you have a communication issue – explaining to MIL to give her time.
If she’s not interested in the type of relationship MIL wants, you have a different issue. Bigger one.
PBA – you have to know when you can say devorim sheb’kedusha in front of a woman.
CShapiro – I tried.
Mods – the number for a cleaning agency ? Is that a problem ?
Ha, I bet no one here ever saw an infant crawl across a busy street, like I saw once in Israel – door was open, kid crawled out – and was not missed til returned (by yours truly, whose taxi almost killed him)!
And if you would have happened c”v to be the case where the opposite happened, who would be here telling that story ?
No prob. Just didn’t want anyone thinking that I was saying one thing, when I was saying the opposite!
Interestingly, some poskim say that today we should not burn chometz found on Pesach, as we write in the sale “and all chometz found in my reshus” – we would be stealing from the goy!
RT – hello, do I really have to point out that I was trying very hard to be sarcastic ? Making basically your points ?
I personally heard from a certain adam gadol (at this point would rather not say who), that shidduchim are different than every thing, and there’s no derech hateva involved at all. He was specifically responding my assertion that a certain girl was having a hard time due to lack of money.
Don’t understand, don’t know the source – but it was certainly a chizuk for the girl in question!
arfws – To be honest, after that thread I doubted you’d go ahead with it. I am humbled to think of the courage you have. Hatzlacha Rabba!
Gatesheader – a common issue. Would make a great thread.
About the last point – I in no way meant it in regard to your situation. I was pointing out a fascinating idea – that at root, we never change our midos, but our way of using them.
In the case of physical pain, for sure that’s also included in His intent. So your point is that when its not clear, and depends on my emotions, I do my best to avoid it.
I would think that depends on the situation. In the case of the plane, I would agree. There is no need to feel frustration, if anything it comes from a bad midah, so work on it. My intent there was not to frustration, but to the problems you may have because of missing it.
In a case where its a normal human emotion – such as the sickness or loss of someone you care for – I would say He expects you to have the pain, and is part of His intention. Serious problems in life, perhaps including yours, is hard to know. Everyone has to know for themselves. I would be very wary, though, of denial.
NOMTW – sorry, by the way, for hijacking the thread.
I obviously did not mean that. Avram said that it used to be a sakana, and now is quite safe. To which I replied that the Halacha stating tht it is a situation of Sakana remains in place, yes obviously for all situations, point being you have to do your best, not say “today its a safe enough procedure”.
So now we have studies quoted that its safer, and more dangerous, at home. Therefore, as usual, I don’t believe it ’til I see it. Sources for these studies, please.
oomis – without getting involved in the PN issue –
Why do we demand that shadchanim be l’shem shamayim ? Do you demand of the plumber that he charge less for poor girls ? Shadchanim need to make money, so its natural to focus on shidduchim that can make them money. They can use their position to help others, including the poor – just like any other professional.
As an aside – as you said, the reaction depends on one’s personality and circumstances. Therefore one’s emotions are controllable – by adjusting your viewpoint, you react differently. This is basically how all our inner growth is possible.
MP – The original point was that you said you’re happy because of someone’s turned off, you just don’t have to sift through them. To me, that sounds like making the situation positive, not DEALING with it positively. It’s a problematic situation, but you believe its for the good. That’s the difference.
And again – FOR THE EVENTUAL good. Which does not have to be in this world either. Seeing it as good, is not like “finding the silver lining” – that may help you deal, but its not totally facing the situation. It means its good for me to have this problem – period. Like missing the plane is good – not because it might blow up, but because I’m supposed to be inconvenienced.
That’s the reason I’m making a big deal about the terminology. If the plane will blow up, missing it is GOOD. If nothing like that will happen, then it was BAD. But it is FOR MY GOOD, that this BAD thing happens – because it was for some reason good for me to have some bad in my life.
Avram – The Halacha remains that it is Sakanos Nefashos
CShapiro – What’s the big deal ? As I posted earlier, there’s an agency. My cleaning lady left us this week. So I called the agency – she’s at work right now. She takes the standard $9, and you pat the agency an extra $2. And if you keep her after Pesach, you pay the agency a small regular fee, not per hour.
A relative told me – I want to give birth the way my grandmother did. So I asked: with the same mortality rate ?
Sam2 – 100%. But its the olam we live in, and He knows that, so while we should see (or believe) that there’s good in every situation, He also sent the pain involved, and we should not attempt to deny it. That’s all.
Ok,I read your piece (the OP, not comments.
Hatzlachah in all your endeavors!
oomis – no one questioned the heter of “oseik b’milachto”. lets not get hysterical.
And are there really no women to help women pick…ahem…certain items ? Must she discuss it with a man ?
PBA – Along those lines, I know of a pool where many frum women swim, with male lifeguards. One of these men once told someone that the lifegurds fight for the “all women’s” shift.
CS – the term nanny conjured up a different image, if that’s what you meant kol hakovod.
Miritcka – I’m sure you mean this sincerely. And I understand perfectly that this is a common financial situation.
I know many people like you. I know a women who literally spends days crying after their maternity leave is up.
I know women – yes, not only one or two – who are fully supported , or husbands do very well, and they have full time jobs. Pursuing careers. Uh huh, a little mental stimulation, right ?
The point is priorities. I know women who took less attractive jobs, because it meant better hours, or less commute, and yes – they tightened their belts and made do with less. I understand that everyone has a different standard of needs/wants etc, but I know many people in such situations where I see a lifestyle which has plenty of room for trimmings.
Our personal chesed is sorely lacking the enthusiasm our communal chesed gets. Going out of your way to help one particular individual doesn’t at all give you the feeling that the above-mentioned organizations do, and so it clashes harder with our middos. As the language used in the OP concerns an inner dimension (very apropos of the Mashgiach Z”L), I would think in that direction.
147 – And interestingly enough, people still do aveiros daily. Hmn, I guess we don’t have enough Yiras Shamayim. Oh wait, we’re humans, right? So that’s our life’s work! ok, thanks.
Toi – that is the essence of R’ Yisroel’s mussar – making things touch the “adam atzmo”.
Using vows as a way to break bad habits/aveiros on Yiddishkeit is something to be used extremely cautiously, and discouraged by most…um…Gedolim.
Of course good and bad means aqccording to human perception. But tnat’s part of the plan.
I asked you why we’re required to make different brochos.
You only grow from a situation if you take it to heart. If it doesn’t bother you, and you just go on,knowing that its all for the best, then it won’t affect or change you. You just Have Emunah, and ignore what Hashem thows your way, ‘cuz you’re “above it”.
Let me stress that my intention is to feel the pain, “while” believing its all for the best. That’s called “mevorecl aal ha’rah – b’simchah”.
You don’t have to take anything I say. Just start doing some learning, and see what you find.
I hear, was asking for a source. I seem to remember a machlokes if there’s any room/need for teshuva for a misasek. Gotta check it up.
It’s not weird that there are no such gezeiros, life couldn’t function. And what would be with the mitzvah of “Sheshes yomim ta’avod” (lashon tzi’vui) ?
I am showing you Halachic sources, which you are ignoring. ok.
Once again – the ostrich also thinks he has it good.