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Doomsday- U are the most knowledgeable on ywn so let me ask u ive been searching but I’m sure u know the answer. Recently they are saying (drs quoting cdc, Wikipedia etc ) that measles kills 1 in 1,000. Ive heard from humphries that death rate bef vaccine was roughly 2 in a million. Where is each side getting their facts and how can it be proven??
Really would appreciate a response
Thank uDoomsday- your information is all correct. But save yourself the stress of this debate. It’ll get nowhere. Sometimes in person u can actually show someone the truth, but the rest of this group has never read “dissolving illusions” or “millers review of critical vaccine studies” so they really dont know what the actual states and what the credentials are of the Drs writing these things. Stress stress stress. Not worth it. Just log out
2cents-
I know this conversation will go nowhere with u and im not trying to convince u not to,vaccinate, but to keep quoting what we all know from cdc, Wikipedia etc is meaningless. And to,quote the percentage of Drs who are anti vaccine is senseless because u dont know that many more are. It arent public about it for fear of being “wakefielded”…
To quote how ridiculous Dr Humphries is for what she says about polio and smallpox just proves my point. Hurray for Wikipedia that u came up with all that on your own (clap clap).
Maybe after you spend the necessary few hours reading her books and/or listening to her lectures, you’ll underrstand why she feels that. She is a double board certified MD after all, and has spent the last decade researching vaccines. Left her job, all the $ and prestige to pursue the truth. She is way more qualified than u to come to any vaccine conclusions. So many comments on ywn are about ppl like you shouting at the vaccine educated, “where are your medical credentials….??” And why do all of u think that u can comment against these brilliant Drs without any credentials yourself??
Pathetic how brainwashed u all are
DoneIts also helpful to know that educated vaxxers dont base their entire belief on Wakefield (or Jenny McCarthy for that matter), although providers think this. We are educated by science and real data. We listen to Drs who know all the facts. Some of them include Dr Suzanne Humphries, Dr Sherri Tempenney, Dr Toni Bark… And scientists such as Dr Yehuda Scoenfeld, Dr Chris Exley, Dr Chistopher Shaw, Dr Gerardi, Dr Theresa Deitcher… These scientists are not anti or pro vaccine. They are pro science and that’s it. They are the ones working in the labs with aluminum or fetal stem cells and they know what they see happen to to brains or cells when these objects are injected etc. They have published their findings on these matters and the fact that they relate to vaccines is a side note. They are simply experts in their respective fields. Thats what science is.
2cents
I don’t know why u keep referring to “proven fraudalent study”. Nothing was ever proven fraudulent about his study! Not in Any court…ever! He lost his license forr thr medical misconduct I mentioned above, not because of fraud in his actual findings. The others retracted but never said why. We can assume they were either bribed or threatened and didnt wany to be “wakefielded” next. Remember that those involved in incriminating Wakefield had ties to pharma.2cents
I didn’t say MMR contains aluminum. Its 2 Sep issues. Mmr can cause autism and so can aluminum in other vaccines. This is from published studies. Not my own hypotheses. Thompson is not fake news. No one even denies it. The CDC doesnt deny it. They promoted him and he’s quiet now. Still works there. Watch the Congressional hearing. All real.Yserbius123-
Fact: vaccines definitely did contain and do contain mercury. Yes its in the form of thimerisol which is 50% mercury but difference does that make as to the exact chemistry name of it? And like I wrote in the previous post, the studies were done to prove their harm. Even by our very own cdc. So based on what evidence do u say that its not harmful? If u find that out, I could win that 100k.
Andy Wakefield was not a fear mongerer. He was the top pediatric GI at the time in the UK and did a study to test a correlation between autism and IBD, essentially a gut-brain connection, which he did find. He did mention in the study thatthe mothers stated that the onset of their childs symptoms began after the MMR and so he recommends that we get the single shots until more research is done. And BOOM he got slammed and smeared for daring to question the vaccines. No, he didnt falsify data. His study was sound, as was his other 150 some papers he had published beforehand. He had 12 other brilliant Drs/scientists peer review this study and come to the same conclusion about the gut brain connection. UC Davis just recently redid his study and came to the exact same conclusion. Once again, solid study. Only reason he lost his license was for failure to obtain permission from the ethics committee to draw blood from normal children to use as a comparison. He didnt Really have to given the nature of this study but they argued he should have. Keep in mind, there was never a proper court case here. This was just the general medical counsel rulings. Subsequently, much corruption has been dug up on this case given the ties that brian deer had with the pharmaceutical companies at the time, amd given the fact that the government was currentlu being sued by over 5,000 families for mmr injuries and Desparately needed this possible connection to go away quickly. Also important to note, that professor John W Smith who worked on the study alongside Andy and lost his license for the same reason, recently tried his case in a real court and was reinstated. The judge called the GMC out on this terrible ruling. Once again, a headline (fraud Dr license revoked…) Vs Real facts!
Thats what I’m trying to,say folks. This can go on all day. U need to research if u want to truly understand. Stop quoting headlines and Wikipedia and learn the real facts please. U can still continue to vaccinate like I do (although on a safer schedule). But at least u will understand your neighbor/relative\friend… Who doesn’t.Continued:
Another example of headline vs science..
CDC claims that mercury in vaccines dont cause autism and that they removed it just out of extreme caution. Once removed, the autism rate kept climbing so the theory is that mercury couldnt be causing it.
Science: the cdc actually did do a study (verstraeten, 2000) that showed that infants exposed to mercury vaccines were twice as likely to develop a speech disorder, 5x more likely to,develop a sleep disorder, and 7.6x more likely to develop autism. Well… They never published that study so Drs dont see it unless they look for it. Why didn’t autism rates go down after they removed it? 1. Thats when they started recommending mercury containing flu shots to pregnant women and children 2. Mercury wasnt completely removed from all vaccines. Most still use it in the production of ingredients so its still in there in trace amounts which is still highly neurotoxin, 3. There is increased aluminum in the vaccine schedule which is similarly neurotoxin to mercury.
In General, Drs will tell u that ethyl mercury in vaccines is not toxic, and methyl mercury that we eat in fish etc is much worse for us and thats totally fine. Science? Not one study, i repeat, NOT ONE study showing that ethyl mercury injected is safe! So how do Drs make that claim? CDC said so. Robert Kennedy even pledged 100k to anyone who can find a safety study regarding injected ethyl mercury. Nothing. Nada. But there are over 100 published studies showing their dangers, and around 20 linking it directly to autism. Real studies, real scientists.
So so many of these examples of unsubstantiated claims vs solid science.
Trust me, i was once one of those. I even had a talk with my pediatrician to prove to those antivaxxers that drs really do know all this and they know the studies etc. Heres how some of the conversation went:
Me: how do u know vaccines are safe?
Dr: vaccines are very safe….20 minute drasha about how they are always making them safer and improving them….
Me: but what abt the ingredients? You’re not concerned abt whats in there? Like aluminum…
Dr: aluminum?? They wouldnt put that in vaccines. (Goes to Google and checks). Hmmm, Actually there is aluminum in there…. (Looks a bit confused. I’m getting nervous now)
Me: what do say about Dr William Thompson from cdc recently saying that their huge 2004 study disproving a link bet mmr and autism was fraudulent as they DID find a link amd were told to cut out anything in the study that showed the link. Dt T kept a copy of the original study and has asked Congress to subppena him but nothing happened yet…
Dr: I never heard of that. Its probably fake news. I would have heard of that if it really happened. We get emails like this all the time if there was a concern…
Me: but it did happen.. I watched the hearing online…
On and on….
I left really nervous that drs possibly arent told all the vaccine truths, and researched on my own.
Research doesnt Wikipedia, Google or the like. It means hearing from board certified MDs what the real studies and real scientists have to say. Unbelievable! I’m not suggesting that anyone stop vaccinating. Just understand where the other side is coming from. Really not pashutMy kids are all vaccinated but I know people who choose not to. I used to think they were crazy and would argue with them about how negligent they were. Until I listened, and i researched…. And I see now that all “provax” is basically based on following Drs (aka “the experts”) and majority. The so called anti vax are really all just ex vaxxers who want safer vaccines. They are not murderers or dumb people. They are actually quite intelligent and knowledgeable. Many are actually real MDs who know how to read science. As much as I hate to admit this, the science against vaccines is way more solid than the provax science. The provax is a lot of headlines and fear mongering with little science to back up their claims. For example, the claim for dtap to protect babies from pertussis. The claim: if everyone in contact with baby gets dtap then it’ll protect baby until baby can get vaxxed. Actual science? Shows that dtap doesnt protect against exposure AT ALL. All it does is lessen or remove symptoms of the actual vaccinee. So, grandma or babysitter or even pediatrician who had dtap, may have asymptomatic pertussis right now while holding your baby but is just as contagious as if they were coughing up a storm. Only difference is, they dont know it! And thats why scientists think there is a rise in pertussis today. Theres No science on the other side that disproves this.. This is legit published study done recently on baboons. Just headlines and fear. No science. And so the saga goes with many vaccine topics.
So, just sayin…. To all those yelling and screaming, there is alot to know on the other side to understand it fairly. If U havent researched the other side (dissolving illusions by Dr Humpries, MD, Neil Millers review of critical vaccine studies..) Then there is no discussion.