Alternatively, one can always bring a fruit platter. Hosts ( especially those on diets, or claiming to be on diets) seem to like it & it doesn’t have to be so expensive. Personally, I’d rather someone bring bourbon, but to each their own….

mosherose – a few questions: How you decide if someone is spending too much time with their wife? How do know how much time he’s spending with her? Do you have surveillance in the home? Is your involvement through Daas Torah or do you make the decsion on your own? What does kol yisroel arivim zeh lazeh allow you to do? As you defend our faith – please explain your methods & procedures. Thanks!

BP Totty – I think both husband & wife need to give it their 100%. Whatever they both do, work, learn, child-rearing, housework, etc. – it needs to be done 100%. They need to put their full kochos into whatever they’re doing.

Ofcourse – that really depends. Different boys give different answers. However, the ones who are realistic, and are looking for the important things in a wife, ususally have an easier time finding what they’re looking for.

charliehall – The Satmar Rebbe, Rav Aron, shlit”a, spoke at a very large BMG event in Lakewood. And – shortly afterwards – Rav Malkiel, shlit”a, spoke at a large siyum in Satmar (in Monroe, I think). This past Elul, the lakewood Tomchei Shabbos couldn’t get reduced priced chickens for their sale to Klai Kodesh (and even planned to cancel the whole sale bacause of that) & Rav Malkiel travelled to Monroe to speak to the Rebbe – who arranged KJ chickens for them at reduced pricing.

Rav Pinchos Lifshitz, Yated editor, a talmid of the Litvisher Yeshiva system, was the trailblazing askan in the Rubashkin saga. He went above & beyond to help & created a huge Achdus amongst Klal Yisroel. That’s a great example of bridging the gap!!!

Well, this week he’s showing similar scary signs – both in the office & by showing up & suddenly interupting his wife at work. He clearly has major issues. So, the saga continues… stay tuned…

any updates?? I didn’t read today’s Mishpacha yet… thanks!

It’s a very well written story. Riva Pomerantz is a great writer & it’s an interesting story. I hope that they don’t cut it off midway, like they did with her last one….

AZ – I agree that the focus of this thread is to prevent the game from continuing.

However, I’d like you to agree as well that there are alternative chairs for the participants to sit on if they haven’t found their chair in the first round. If you agree to that point, then it would be unfair to state that girls will remain single.

You yourself wrote – a individual girl definately has some options, and she can do herself a lot of good by being open to things she may have not previously considered.

So, you agree that the lack of chairs in only in the first round.

That being the case – it’s quite hard to say that there’s a lack of chairs on the whole. It really depends on what round of the game you are talking about & what chairs you are willing to consider….

AZ – you came here looking for solutions, which I’m trying to offer. By focusing only on BMG, you’ve overlooked the solution that I’ve proposed.

Yes, there’s very few boys that remain single in BMG after 7 years.

But…… that’s my point!!!

A girl enters shidduchim only looking for a certain type of boy. As she starts getting older, there are very few of that type boys that remain for her to date.

Thus, as she gets older – she has to broaden her search. That means, now she must start looking for boys who perhaps she wouldn’t have considered earlier in her shidduch search. This may include a boy from a different Yeshiva, a working boy, a divorcee, an almon, a Baal T’sheva, etc., etc. She’s not sacrificing on the important things like middos, etc. She is just looking at ideas that she would have never considered before.

You have reffered to them as “second tier chairs” – which in my humble opinion – is cruel. I’d rather use the term alternative chairs. And, as I wrote – sturdy & solid chairs, just different from the ones that you saw in the first room.

Speak to those who deal with older singles. They focus on different ideas for older singles. They work to come up with shidduchim for older singles that are on target, but ones that the single may have never considered when they began dating.

Those who have made shidduchim for older singles will confirm what I’ve wrote. I assume you haven’t & therefore you may not be able to appreciate what I’ve written.

chaverim – i’d love to know which Gedolim you are reffering to who support what’s being taught in these seminaries. Forget the 20 grand that the parents have to shell out in today’s tough economy. That’s for another thread. My experience with teachers from seminaries has been less than wonderful. I think that most of what’s being taught there would shock most Gedolim!

AZOI.IS – you are right – and what would you put into place to help those girls who are already 23, 24 and on? I don’t know, so I’m not going to answer that question. All I am asking is to prevent having THOUSANDS more 23 & 24 year old single girls.

It’s so simple…. Just bring home the boys from E”Y six months earlier & we’ll see many less older singles!

squeak – I apologize if you feel that I have made some dangerous assumptions about your character. That wasn’t my intention & I hope you are moichel me if you feel slighted. My only intention is to ask that instead of attacking the Yeshiva system, perhaps try to help the thousands of suffering single girls.

It’s a very sad and scary picture out there and by trying to minimize it – you aren’t helping anyone.

squeak – I see that you feel that you are getting nowhere argueing with AZ. That’s fine. You are entitled. But, what do suggest as an alternative to what AZ suggests? Do you have another eitza?? You don’t want to see ” a severe form of sheep-herding (i.e. mass manipulation” – I agree. But we need to help the THOUSANDS of single girls out there. What are you doing to help them?

AZOI.IS – gut gezukt! People are bashing a project that’s helping singles. If you have better ideas – let’s hear them. If not – don’t knock people who are doing something!!

PM – as a Rav, I’m sure you are more aware on sholom bayis issues, and I do hear your point. But, I don’t think – and I may be wrong – that Sholom Bayis is better in a home where the boy started dating at a later age. Boys and girls should be taught Sholom Bayis from when they are very young. If the education begins early, I think that it will help greatly later. I am sure you’ll agree that the age isn’t nearly as important as the education in Sholom Bayis. Therefore, we have to focus on the issue – bringing more boys into Shidduchim. We can do that by bringing them home from E”Y six months younger.

squeak – no, the difference between you & AZ and myself is our familiarity with the shidduch scene. I think that you are l’shaim shomayim, I just think that you lack the facts.

proud tatty – no one is saying to stop Bochurim from learning in E”Y. All AZ is suggesting is to have the boys come back earlier. But, they can go earlier. There’s no reason why a Bochur can’t go to E”Y at 20 & stay for two years. So, I think you are missing the point.

You say that you have spoken with Roshei Yeshivos (ones with Emes Daas Torah). So, can I ask you – what was their solution to help the thousands of single girls?

Bottom line – send boys to E”Y younger & bring them back 6 earlier from E”Y & we will see more marriages and less singles.

SJSinNYC – thank you for admitting that you may be wrong. Most boys I know can date & even get married at 22.5. Perhaps you have met immature Yeshivish boys. The ones I’ve met seem to be exactly the same at 22.5 as they are at 23.

gavra_at_work – you seem to have an agenda about rich and support. While that’s a very valid discussion, the issue here is regarding getting more boys into the Shidduch market. By sidetracking – we will lose focus.

Bottom line – cut out 6 months of boys learning in E”Y & we will see more marriages and less singles.

tzippi – then they can learn here in the US. Does it say anywhere that Torah can’t be learnt outside of Eretz Yisroel? If someone is able to go back – great. But, they can learn here also. Perhaps, the boys can also start going a bit younger.

SJSinNYC – I don’t think you understand my point. Most boys are ready & mature enough to date at 22.5. But, since the accepted route is to wait till 23 to come back, they don’t return till then. If a boy is mature at 23, he was probably already mature enough at 22.5. (And possibly even at 22 or 21.5……..)I’m not rushing anyone. I just don’t see a reason to slow things down when we can saving lives!!

aggadah99 – I have heard just as many broken engagements from older girls. I don’t think that anyone can show numbers on this, but I’d say that it has nothing to do with what age the girls got engaged at.

Of course, parents want what’s best for their children. But….. they also have “negius”….. So, the only answer is to present a Sheilah to Da’as Torah. In a case like this – it has to be someone who both the parents & the child respect.

This really brings proof to the myth of people stuffing their mattresses with cash. Nebach, it must be very uncomfortable to sleep with such a lumpy mattress. I guess the moral of the story is to deposit your cash into the bank…….

AZ mave have an agenda, but he puts much time & effort into helping singles. While you may or may not agree with him, he has done his homework. Fact is that there are much more older girls than guys, no question. His only agenda is helping singles get married.