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The main issue I was trying to resolve is what I wrote here, mentioned above:
“I think I realize how I am being unclear. Let me clarify: I am NOT saying, in ANY way, that the full theory of evolution is correct and should be taken at face value. I don’t necessarily think that humans and monkeys share a common ancestor. What I am asking is whether it is possible that evolution has SOME basis in fact – that maybe Hashem caused some evolution through history – in humans, from Adam and on through the times of giants, etc…, as well as animals from THEIR ancestors (e.g. dinosaurs – a snake walking on legs sounds a lot like a dinosaur to me) and that subsequently, based on the evidence of evolution in various animals and plants that scientists have found, they expounded the theory of evolution and erroneously generalized it to humans sharing ancestors with monkeys.”
Basically, I was not wondering if we share a common ancestor with monkeys. I was wondering if it is possible to posit the idea that we evolved from Adam, who possibly looked different from we do in some ways, and other animals evolved from THEIR ancestors, who might have been different in various ways from the way THEY are now.This would open the door to what we have now, which is the possibility of scientists misconstruing some credible evidence of evolution taking place intra-species as evidence that humans share ancestors with monkeys, which would be inter-species. It appears that there may be basis to say this. I was not out to prove anything. Simply curious. Thanks.
Regarding time, I am also aware of Dr. Gerald Schroeder’s work, albeit not intimately. However, the idea is certainly intriguing to me. I guess I am more partial to naturalistic explanations for creation, carried out through Hashem’s word, than to the simplistic, fantastical ideas taught to every grade school child that things just magically appeared in an instant. I’m NOT denying that Hashem is capable if doing that if he so chose. But it would certainly help to reconcile the otherwise irreconcilable, yet seemingly credible scientific evidence regarding things such as evolution and age of the world.
Joseph,
I wrote previously “So my question is, could it be that the “animals” that were created before Adam might not have necessarily resembled the animals that we have today, just like it might be fair to say that we might not really resemble what “people” looked like in the times of Adam and subsequently Og, etc…”
Yes, the Torah says the animals were created before Adam. But there was also a nachash (that we define now as snake) walking on legs. Clearly, it is not certain that the animals that were alive then were exactly the same as the animals that are alive now. They might have been. But in the same way that there Adam was different from present day humans, and Moshe was also huge, and there were giants… Let me put it like this: I very much doubt that Adam and his children looked exactly the way we humans do now. Similarly, perhaps the animals that were created before Adam evolved.
I think I realize how I am being unclear. Let me clarify: I am NOT saying, in ANY way, that the full theory of evolution is correct and should be taken at face value. I don’t necessarily think that humans and monkeys share a common ancestor. What I am asking is whether it is possible that evolution has SOME basis in fact – that maybe Hashem caused some evolution through history – in humans, from Adam and on through the times of giants, etc…, as well as animals from THEIR ancestors (e.g. dinosaurs – a snake walking on legs sounds a lot like a dinosaur to me) and that subsequently, based on the evidence of evolution in various animals and plants that scientists have found, they expounded the theory of evolution and erroneously generalized it to humans sharing ancestors with monkeys.
Also – I think it says Adam’s body was fashioned from dust, dirt, clay, etc…no? As far as I know, the Torah does not expressly say how the animals were created. Perhaps Hashem fashioned an animal that shared some characteristics of the body of Adam and that subsequently evolved into present day primates. Again, only questioning the possibility of it.
My question is that we see that the world was an extremely different place when it was created – I think it’s fair to say that Adam could not be called human at least in the way that we are human. For example, I think I recall hearing that he was gigantic. Like 100 amos or something. Also considering the fact that there was a “snake” walking on legs and that there used to be giants who could pick up mountains, and there was huge fruit that the Meraglim brought pack – the world was simply a very, very different place when you go back so long ago.
So my question is, could it be that the “animals” that were created before Adam might not have necessarily resembled the animals that we have today, just like it might be fair to say that we might not really resemble what “people” looked like in the times of Adam and subsequently Og, etc…
My question is not meant to deny Hashem – it is wondering if a case could be made to reconcile some of the scientific evidence that has been found in present times with the little that we know of what the world was like at the dawn of man and whether it is possible that Hashem could have caused some sort of evolutionary process to take place over time that has caused the evidence that scientists have claimed they found presently?
This is a legitimate question that I have always wondered. It is meant for people who have really thought about it to respond and hopefully provide me some answers, civilly and intellectually, without simply screaming “kefirah” and “apikorus” and refusing to talk about it. Any help and/or answers are appreciated.
I have a serious, honest question as long as we’re mentioning evolution and evolutionary history – from what I understand, evolution does NOT claim that humans descend from monkeys. It claims that humans and other primates descend from a common ancestor, which not much is known about. Being that Adam Harishon was clearly not a human in the manner that we know, e.g. he was supposedly huge, etc… and also being that the there was a snake walking on two legs, (possibly evidence of dinosaurs), could it not be that Adam was the common ancestor and Hashem then made various evolutions throughout the whole mysterious course of history to get us to where we are now? I am not so learned when it comes to torah, but I never understood the immediate rejection of some form evolution when it seems to be clear from even the torah and midrashim that people have changed DRASTICALLY throughout time.
P.S. also consider that there used to be giants and Moshe Rabbeinu was 20 amos tall
Popa, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were referring to psychoanalysis, because there is still a small minority that believe in it. Now I see you completely don’t know what you’re talking about, because what you wrote about “talking through one’s emotions and where you are making the illogical step” is exactly what the cognitive part of CBT is. You are mistakenly thinking that CBT is only behavioral therapy, which, yes, for the most part would only treat symptoms and not underlying issues. The whole reason that CBT is so successful is BECAUSE it takes from both the behavioral aspect AND the cognitive aspect of identifying incorrect or irrational thoughts and emotions. It is psychotherapy’s form of “the best of both worlds”. I don’t know why you can’t wrap your head around that – CBT ABSOLUTELY DOES INVOLVE DISCUSSING EMOTIONS AND FEELINGS. IT DOES. IT DOES. IT DOES…maybe now you’ll get it? I can give another capitalized “it does” if that will help you…What do you think the cognitive part of CBT is then?
And saying that you’re talking about “good old psychotherapy” is also ridiculous. There are many, many different forms of psychotherapy. To give another of my analogies, that is like saying to someone with a headache “don’t take tylenol or ibuprofen, take medicine.” It is ridiculous and simply. makes. no. sense. It isn’t saying anything helpful.
Oh and by the way, you avoided the question AGAIN: Please propose a treatment, (not just a name, but what the treatment entails) that you would use. You haven’t given one practical solution at all. Saying “talk through emotions” is the vaguest statement ever. Propose a plan – i.e. I often have anxiety attacks. How would you treat me?
Ok, I simply have to come back back because I see Popa has gone back on is “final word” so I guess I will too. CBT, whether you agree that it is correct or not, IS a form of psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is just any treatment that is psychological in nature. There are many, many different forms of psychotherapy. So the question of going for CBT or psychotherapy is ridiculous and redundant. It’s like saying ” hmm…should I take a pill for my headache or should I take a pill of tylenol for my headache?” The pill of tylenol is a pill. CBT is psychotherapy.
From webster’s dictionary: Psychotherapy – treatment of mental or emotional disorder or of related bodily ills by psychological means
I think what Popa has been ignorantly attempting to refer to is called psychoANALYSIS. Again from websters: Psychoanalysis – a method of analyzing psychic phenomena and treating emotional disorders that involves treatment sessions during which the patient is encouraged to talk freely about personal experiences and especially about early childhood and dreams.
It’s funny that Popa is too dim to even know the term that he has been propagating this entire time. And for everyone else besides for Popa – Psychoanalysis is the least scientific form of psychotherapy. It has very little reliability, very little validity and majority of doctoral psychology programs today no longer teach it and have moved towards CBT. For those just joining the convo, I know this because I am, in fact, in a doctoral psychology program, so I have some credibility.
And I want to address Popa directly again – I think if you go back through all the posts in this thread, you have not offered one specific solution to the original problems. All you have done is bash CBT ignorantly and tlk about “really dealing with emotions”. So I ask you again: Please propose a direct, specific solution for us. We are all dying to read it. So let’s see it.
Popa I have yet to find the psychologist who says that mental illness is purely genetic. In fact, i have never heard of that before…genetics can often play a part. But there can be many other factors as well…not everyone who become mentally ill has family members who are also mentally ill.
I don’t think anyone was ever arguing that depression or other mental illness can not be stimulated by various outside incidents that occur in life. But what we are saying is that those outside incidents spark biological physical change that result in the symptoms of mental illness. Which is why CBT is perfect – It’s cognitive and behavioral. Behavioral therapy treats symptoms such as anxiety while cognitive therapy helps to cut to the core and show the client why their maladaptive thoughts or behaviors are precisely that – maladaptive. And it helps them recognize when the thoughts come and how to avoid their painful results.
I really think you don’t quite understand what exactly CBT is. Or at least you didn’t when you made your ridiculous statement that it’s “narishkeit” and that there are no studies proving it’s efficacy. Maybe now you do. I grow tired of this. My final word is that it is really wrong to discourage someone from getting a treatment that can vastly improve their life. I know the coffee room. I don’t post often, but I know you like to get your kicks by getting a rise out of people. But if you take a deep breath and step back and look at what you are doing, I think, maybe, you can see that you were wrong to just throw out such general, ignorant statements.
CBT does find healthy ways to address the cause. I currently work in the child and family trauma clinic at my university, with a professor who has published numerous articles on PTSD. I can tell you unequivocally that the best way to treat PTSD, which can result from abuse and various other traumatic incidents is the combination of CBT with Exposure therapy (which is really basically a form of behavioral therapy). It is empirical. It is proven to work way more often than not. What do you propose is the best way to go about it? Obviously I would love to treat the causes too and get rid of all molestation and death and grief and traumatic events and…do you see? it’s not very practical to say that. People will be traumatized or depressed and we have methods that are proven to work, that the victims themselves say have helped them. I also think you may be confusing psychologists and psychiatrists. Psychiatrists are medical doctors and really just prescribe pills – for depression, anxiety, etc… Those pills just treat symptoms and often have negative side effects. Psychologists, who use CBT, teach clients how to confront their fears, traumas, and depressive thoughts. That is not just treating symptoms. Anyway, what do you propose?
Well, yes there is always a stimulus. There is also a stimulus to catching any disease – going where the various germs are. And just like the stimulus for any other disease causes (we’re at those words again) BIOLOGICAL and PHYSICAL changes in the body – bacterial or viral cells and organisms to wreak havoc, So too do the stimuli for depression cause (here we go) BIOLOGICAL and PHYSICAL changes through chemical imbalance. But it’s impossible to eliminate the stimuli that cause depression, the same way we can’t really completely prevent ourselves from getting sick. You generally can’t prevent the loss of a family member, or physical or sexual abuse from happening, can you? The stimuli that cause depression – various incidents that can cause grief, will not be eliminated from life, although we’d all love to avoid them. They are part of life. But not everyone gets depression either. Certain people can be biologically more likely to get it. So you treat depression with things that work – therapy or drugs (often both).
And here you go Popa, this is from the same website. I’m not sure how you can keep arguing against this unless you’re either just trying to annoy people (and also prevent someone from getting a treatment that is proven to help) or if you just truly are incapable if comprehending this, in which case you’re off the hook because I can’t blame someone for their level of intelligence given to them by Hashem. But anyway:
“A study published in Archives of Psychiatry found that MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans showed patients with clinical depression had less brain volume in several regions, including the frontal lobe, basal ganglia and hippocampus. They also found that after treatment the hippocampus returned to normal size.
The Stanford School of Medicine says that genes do play a role in causing depression. By studying cases of major depression among identical twins (whose genes are 100% identical) and non-identical twins (whose genes are 50% identical) they found that heritability is a major contributory factor in the risk of developing depression.
An article in Harvard Health Publications explains that depression is not caused simply by the level of one chemical being too low and another too high. Rather, several different chemicals are involved, working both within and outside nerve cells. There are ‘Millions, even billions, of chemical reactions that make up the dynamic system that is responsible for your mood, perceptions, and how you experience life.’
An awful experience can trigger a depressive illness. For example, the loss of a family member, a difficult relationship, physical sexual abuse.”
In other words – depression certainly has physical causes.
Popa I did not prove your point, I proved mine. First, before you feel any effect, there has to be some sort of biological change that will trigger the nerves and therefore make you feel something. First the cut, which is biological and physical, then the pain follows. Likewise with depression, first there would likely be a biological imbalance, and then the effect follows – the symptoms of depression. I also hope you do realize while we are talking about this that clinical depression is very different from simply feeling down about something happening. Clinical depression must go on for a certain amount of time and there are various other things that are looked for. That is why not everyone will become depressed. Some people may have a genetic predisposition to it, again indicating a biological cause.
As to your headache comment – what do you think causes headaches? It’s not lack of tylenol, but it is most certainly some sort of chemical, biological change that occurs. The following is quoted from a September 2013 updated article from medicalnewstoday.com:
“Experts today believe that a change in certain brain chemicals may be the main factors that contribute to tension headaches. These chemicals are the ones that help nerves communicate, such as serotonin, endorphins, and several others. We are not sure why the levels of these chemicals change. We suspect that the fluctuations activate pain pathways to the brain and probably undermine our ability to suppress pain.”
I think I have figured out your problem Popa, and it is something many people don’t know, which is that everything that we feel, all sensation, eventually leads back to the spinal chord and up to the brain, and the brain is ALL PHYSICAL. It is hard to imagine that everything that we feel every day is actually the result of chemicals passing messages back and forth, but it is true. If you can understand that, then I don’t think you would have much of a problem anymore. Again, there are no mysterious “boogie” forces going around our brain. It is all electro-chemical, biological, and therefore PHYSICAL.
rebyidd23 – you are perfectly right. CBT is not fool proof. But unfortunately when it comes to mental illness, nothing is foolproof – even medications can have negative side effects. CBT HAS been shown scientifically to help many, many people with a variety of psychological disorders.
Wow Popa…Ok I’m back because of your foolish comment. Saying depression causes there to be less serotonin (or whichever chemical neurotransmitter is involved; they’re not positive it’s always serotonin) is like saying that having a cut on your arm is CAUSED by feeling pain. Depression consists of the symptoms AFTER there is a biological chemical imbalance. Again in layman’s terms – if your brain is chock full of the chemicals that make you feel happy, you probably will not be feeling depressed because…oh right – you feel happy! Think of anesthesia – they can be doing a surgery with local anesthesia (laughing gas or whatever) where you’re wide awake for the surgery and they can be cutting a part of your body open, but you will feel happy (sort of) and on another planet – because they give you the chemical that can alter what your brain feels. Saying that depression causes a chemical imbalance in your brain makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. Again, that’s like saying feeling pain causes a cut to appear on your arm, instead of the obvious reverse.
Popa, you really are a completely ignorant person. If you knew anything about neuropsychology, you would know that there are MANY psychological disorders that have biological bases, depression included. Depression is most often treated with SSRI’s – Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor. These inhibit the “feel good” neurotransmitter in the brain, serotonin, from being re-absorbed, thus in layman’s terms, leaving more of it out in the brain to help the person feel good. The reason these work is because often people with depression either fail to produce the correct amounts of these neurotransmitters. And of course, CBT has also been shown empirically to help because as the people change their thought patterns (the cognitive part in CBT), they can produce more.
This is all said in layman’s terms for the uneducated people, like Popa. I’m done lecturing here. Popa, please stop shooting your mouth off and discouraging another person, a fellow Jew I might add, from seeking the help that he or his loved ones require. Go find somewhere else to get your kicks.
Hi Popa,
What a great comment – And your position is ignorance. And yet, you can’t even say why. It’s very easy to call stupid and not give an explanation why. People with an intelligence above age 3 are generally able to also explain their point so that they actually have some credibility, which you don’t. Here is the definition of empirical from webster
Now if you educate yourself and learn what empirical studies entail, they follow the scientific method and if efficacy of a treatment is proven, which CBT has been, then one can say with a nice amount of confidence that it is a reliable and valid form of treatment. Go educate yourself, if you’re capable of that.
link removed. next time post will be deleted. read the rules. -127
This Popa Bar Abba guy is utterly and completely wrong. CBT is empirically supported and evidence-based. I am a frum guy in a doctoral program in clinical psychology. The study that this Popa guy quoted does not even appear to have anything to do with CBT. I wonder if he even knows what CBT is. Hey Popa, check this one out-
Andrew C. Butler, Jason E. Chapman, Evan M. Forman, Aaron T. Beck, The empirical status of cognitive-behavioral therapy: A review of meta-analyses, Clinical Psychology Review, Volume 26, Issue 1, January 2006, Pages 17-31
For those that don’t know, the above is a more recent study than the one popa bar abba cited and it was specifically on CBT and proved that it can be very effective for certain disorders. Original Poster – it works and may very likely be able to help you or whoever you know that’s looking into it. Good luck!
After reading some more posts and seeing that vernbal bullying was a major cause for your son’s predicament- I can TOTALLY relate to him. 10 years ago when I was in elementary school, my classmates called me a bum, told me I was going off the derech, took my black hat and hid it, claiming that I wasn’t frum, so I didn’t need it. I would walk into a room and kids would yell out “oh the bum is here” The only crime I was guilty of? wearing bobby pins so I could better keep ON my yarmulka. I did have a tv in my house, but I didn’t talk about that so much. Kids can be vicious. The problem is that they get this stuff from the older siblings and adults around them. A kid isnt born saying that bobby pins mean youre not frum. They hear their parents say it and it becomes engrained in them. It’s really a shame.
I never went completely off, but I had my period in high school when I wanted to distance myself as much as possible from the people who had bothered me for so many prior years. I hung out with girls, went to movies, etc…( I never smoked or drank because I just felt that even from a non-religious standpoint, its damaging, which obviously, it is). Eventually I came back a little more to the right, though not entirely. Sometimes the best antidote is simply time. It is absolutely not true that your son may never come back. I know guys who were very modern orthodox who became very right wing. but nothing will happen overnight, and there probably isn’t much you can do either. I know there wasn’t much my parents did for me. Sometimes, simply the fact that youre a parent will cause the son to disregard what you say. His friend could probably say the exact same thing that he previously ignored from you, and he would listen. Hard as it may be, you really may have to just ride it out, obviously while still being loving and supportive.
I don’t know how much more I have to say on the topic. All I can say right now is that Write or wrong- you came on here looking for help and answers and a way to understand your son. People are giving you that, and for the most part, you just seem to be resisting them all, and explaining YOURself and why what you are doing is perhaps correct, etc…You seem more interested in getting into these philosophical discussions about Judaism then in actually implementing some of the ideas mentioned here, and in the meantime is anything being accomplished? Again, I haven’t read all the posts, but for the last bunch of them, it seems like generally you respond to politely, thank them for their words and then proceed to disagree and mention why your thinking is different. Makes for great discussion, but what is actually being DONE?
ahh never mind. I understand its in addition to citi field.
How does that accomodate more people? Isnt that smaller than citifield?
I agree with far east. Personally, im a single 23 yr old and i know i have no intention of living in a community of, and raising my children god willing in, a strict black and white community. That doesnt mean im not frum or dont want to be. I actually love being a frum jew. I try to follow halacha, be koveia ittim, etc…while also attempting to not judge others, be happy and enjoy the life god gave me. So too may it be with your son. He may never rejoin the black and white community. Things like alcohol, he’ll probably get over. I feel like there are two things going on here: the religious aspect and the regular teenage stuff. I gotta tell you, where i live there are plenty of white and black mesivta kids who ive heard cursing, and who drink and smoke. A lot of that is ”cool teenage stuff” that is unfortunately not isolated to the non- black and white community. That stuff, he’ll probably outgrow, as most of them do after driving their parents nuts for a bunch of years.. The negativity towards the black and white community, he may never outgrow. And I fully understand that it may break your heart at first, and i am sorry if that happens. However, the question is, how will you react if he raises a warm, frum family that is not black and white? Will you be resentful? Or will you accept them?
W.O.W. – whether you agree with the community standards or not is not really the issue. The issue is what message youre actually conveying to your son. If you keep giving the message that hes not living up to the standard set by the community, he’s only going to keep running away from the community, not join it. And he’ll view you as a pushover who cares more about reputation in the community than about him. Again, not saying that is how YOU feel, but it is how you will look to a teenagers eyes.
To use myself as an example again – when the kids in my school used to tell me i wasnt frum and other garbage, did it make me want to be more like them? No! I thought to myself “wow, these people are insane and just plain cruel. I will never be like them, and I will make sure my kids aren’t raised like that either”
You generally cant intimidate someone into being more like you (through threats of “standing out from the community” and such) and make them love and cherish it. Even if they do conform to the “standards”, it will be half-hearted and with a lot of deep-seated resentment. Like I’ve tried to say for my last few posts – the sooner you lose the attitude that he is not living up to community standards and stop conveying that message to him, the better off you all will be.
far east, very well said.
W/O/W – You are correct that I do still have a lot of anger. That is true.
When I wrote restrictions, I meant what zahavasdad just said about chumras. I used college simply as an example of a something that yeshivish people will bash with absolutely no real logic behind it whatsoever.
You said “and a red shirt with jeans is not the acceptable ‘cover’ in our community.” Don’t you see? I simply can’t make it any clearer – it is an attitude like that that will turn off any teenage kid who isn’t a normal “yeshiva” kid. He doesn’t identify with the yeshivish kids and by you probably nagging and constantly telling him how thats an unacceptable cover, you are ONLY DRIVING HIM AWAY!! You simply MUST change you mindset. I hate bashing a whole community, but if that is the community you live in, youre probably in the wrong one or associating with the wrong people. I do get angry because in my opinion, kids are mostly innocent. they get the obnoxious attitude that “anyone who doesnt wear black and white isnt as good of a Jew” from adults like you, who just keep saying it without realizing the possible ramifications that it can have for kids who are slightly different.
Clearly, you “caring for him” by having this misguided attitude is not helping. Thats the same obnoxious attitude that missionaries have when they try to “save your soul”-“oh its for your own good”
Look, again, im trying to help. It truly does bother me when I see similar cases like I had that could be avoided. If youre just going to argue and defend your position which obviously does NOT seem to be working, then theres nothing anyone can do. I can only say that, bli ayin harah, I predict your son will not improve until you stop focusing on externals and communal reputations, and start focusing, truly, on him.
Write or wrong: I havent nearly read through all the posts here, as there are a ton. However, speaking as a young guy in my early 20’s, who went through many ups and downs regarding religion, I can tell you just from your last post that you totally have the wrong attitude, as does you “community”. Its unbelievable to me how a parent could place so much emphasis on the clothing their child wears and how he will fit into the community. Believe me, your son absolutely realizes that. And when a child gets the feeling that a parent cares more about their outward appearance and how they fit into a community than their personal feelings, then that only pushes them further away. You absolutely sound like a fanatic from your last post, and frankly its no surprise to me that your son is going through what he is. What other restrictions have you and your community placed on him? is he not allowed to go to college? Is he conctantly told that the only way to be a good jew is to sit and and learn all day? And another thing- how was he treated in school by his classmates? When i was young, my entire grade called me a “bum” and told me that I was “going off the derech” What was my crime? wearing bobby pins in my yarmulka in order to KEEP IT ON!!!!!!!!!!! How infuriating it is that people will care more about what someone looks like than to notice the practical application of whatever they are doing. I can tell you right now, my very yeshivish elementary school had an extremely negative effect on me. There may be things that your son has not yet told you. eventually, many people do end up coming back, however YOU must change your entire mindset if you would like it to happen sooner, rather than later. STOP worrying about your sons externals and worry about HIM. See HIM. Care for HIM. Not for your reputation in your community.
Oh and another thing. This comes also from personal experience, as well as my college psychology classes. How do you and your husband get along at home? Do you fight a lot? I’m not expecting you to answer here, and its really none of MY business. However when a child see’s that the only things that come with religion are strife and conflict, they will a) HATE it and b) RUN from it. Please listen to me when I say this. It happened to me and I am letting you know the feelings that went through my mind. My parents did not have a good marriage. every shabbos meal was filled with fighting, sarcastic comments, arguments… I despised staying with them for shabbos. Perhaps without you even realizing it, your son is going through the same thing? Every psychology professor will tell you that probably the WORST thing for a child to see in terms of their healthy development is parental conflict. Again, I’m not implying you and your spouse have problems. I have no idea. but perhaps re-examine how your household is typically run.
P.S. I want to reiterate that I did NOT nearly read every post. If something I said is not applicable, just completely disregard it. I am only trying to help.
Maybe as soon as more girls get the message that while not every guy is cut out to sit and learn all day, they can still be great people and wonderful jews, we’ll have an end to the totally started-by-society shidduch crisis.
Trying to figure out if you simply made this title so that more people would come read your post, or if youre really oblivious to what real sholom bayis issues are…
apushatayid- as if no jewish adults get into car accidents? Tragic events happen to many people, of all ages unfortunately, and you can’t shut life down to avoid it. I’m in NO way trying to trivialize that horrific accident, but I guess it must be defined which age group we’re talking about. Are we talking about high school kids? in that case, yes i agree there should probably be some kind of curfew. But when I see bochrim, i think of post-high school, bais medrash aged guys. In that case, I think it is totally ridiculous to try (and believe me, for the most part it wouldn’t work) to force 20 year old young adults who are no longer children to have a curfew. im willing to bet most of the people writing that they should probably dont have chuildren that age or they wouldn’t be writing it. If they do, boy do i feel bad for your kids. While this curfew thing is only a trivial example, it is representative of the overbearing attitude in judaism that makes many young people start to dislike and even hate it.
Hockoftherock, honestly who do you think you are? I think YOU should have a curfew because if you go to sleep late, YOULL be tired and less productive the next day. And if you say you won’t, then who are you to generalize on all bochrim? This is also one of the reasons that so many ”bochrim” are rebellious or go otd. Stop generalizing and holding every single one of them to a higher standard. Just leave them alone already. Stop babying them.
If you have k9, and you have an antivirus, which most computers do, you must make sure that k9filter.exe is in the list of exclusions from being monitored. That is usually where the slowing down of the system comes from.
I dont understand why people think this is loshon harah and are automatically assuming that by asking how syrians are so rich, the poster is implying its a bad thing. Maybe hes just looking for financial advice. A lot of guilty consciences in here. Stop assuming that by him asking that question, hes labeling syrians as “bad people”.
hockoftherock, that may be one of the most ridiculous comments ive ever seen posted on here. Saying that people should intentionally go to a place where they wont enjoy it as much, just so that they dont miss camp during the year? ridiculous…
batseven, you clearly have no idea what can be done with a studio these. They are are capable of imitating the tonal frequencies of real instruments and thus, when they make a sound into a microphone with their mouth, it sounds much like the real instrument. However, it is not real instruments. That is the secret behind AKA Pella too, to an even greater degree than the ybc cd. You can make a claim that it totally defeats the purpose of not listening to instruments. But its a loophole that many use, including myself, because when it comes down to it, there were not any instruments played. Its NOT real music.
Ari Goldwag has the most underrated beautiful voice IMO, probably cuz he lives in israel and doesnt do big concerts. I gained new respect for Ohad after seeing him at the concert this past chol hamoed. The problem with bith of those singers is that on their solo albums, I personally don’t like most of their song choices, especially Ohad. Its frustrating that he has a fantastic voice but mediocre songs, except for a few. Avraham Fried is the same problem for me. I love hearing him live, but on cd’s not as much. Shwekey often has fantastic songs and I would’ve loved to hear some of his songs sung by any of the above people.
Control and tone is very important. I personally feel that in jewish music today (which i do love anyway), there is too much of a focus on getting the people who can hit the highest notes, regardless of if they have pleasant sounding voice and good control over it. There are even kids choirs (i.e. yeshiva boys choir) that have a lot of screaming to hit high notes in which some of the kids are probably damaging their voices (and NO, most of them do NOT get proper voice lessons, so those who think they do-youre wrong). There is a difference between screaming and singing. A very good jewish singer who has exceptional control who DOESNT scream or go crazy high is Ari Goldwag. The guy has a smooth, beautiful voice with excellent control and tone. Again, I do love almost all jewish music, these are just things that I personally wish were a little different. Im NOT bashing jewish music, I listen to it all the time.