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flatbusher, and I suppose you are unaware of the lower rate of divorce among young couples in the frum communities that marry young versus the higher rate of divorce in the frum communities that marry later.
Boys may never socialize with a girl who is non-immediate family other than for the purposes, or serious potential thereof, of marriage.
To note, I was speaking generally and not about the OP or another poster and certainly not criticizing or disputing your comment. I should add that even the Choson himself is prohibited from watching his own chasuna video where there are women dancing or dressed inappropriately.
zd: Not every Chumra or Hashkafa is for everyone.
This is a halacha not a chumra or hashkafa.
What if you fight the Yetzer Hora and Lose and get frustrated with the fight.
So don’t fight the Yetzer Hora and instead invite the Yetzer Hora into your home for a l’chaim?
There are plenty of frum people who go to the Movies.
There are plenty of frum people who do aveiros.
If one goes to the Movies at Sheepshead Bay on a Motzei Shabbos in the Winter you will see lots of young frum there (Flatbush types, not Borough park types). Clearly they are all not doing averiahs
Clearly they all are doing aveirahs.
I would agree that R Rated Movies are inappropirate.
All PG-13 rated movies are assur as well. That’s why even the gentiles admit those under 13 shouldn’t see it. And all PG rated movies are assur as well. That’s why even the gentiles admit you need parental permission. And virtually all G rated movies, especially those that aren’t all cartoon animation, are inappropriate as they minimally contain women dressed immodestly according to Jewish law and thus prohibited for men to look at. (That you can see such women in the street anyways is no excuse, since you have a heter to be in the street since you need to go in the street.) And almost all G movies likely have more prohibitions in addition to the immodesty.
I should hope the OP is not seeing the top movie in America today, that is totally inappropriate
You seem to know quite a bit. I don’t know what is popular today nor do I care which you speak of, but how are you so familiar with all the latest inappropriate stuff currently?
flatbusher: would be curious to know if it is indeed there is a psak that is an aveirah to see a movie that has no unclean content, or it’s just you.
Speak to any (at least half legitimate) pulpit rabbi and he’ll be able to relate to you at least half a dozen psaks that it is an aveira.
DY: You mean like chasunah videos?
If the chasunah video has women dancing or dressed inappropriately, men are prohibited from watching it.
Our communities pays taxes and any members of our communities who qualifies for government programs should take advantage of them to the full extent they are available.
What caused you to think of googling kosher windex?
I also have first hand experience, observations and testimonials. Marriage brings out additional maturity.
From Yerushalayim to BP to SI? You should be going up madreigas rather than down. 😉
Middos should be THE focal point.
There’s a difference between being excessive on an issue and being reasonable. The only question is where the line is drawn. But there certainly is a line.
Sometimes a person receives a psak to eat chazir. That doesn’t mean eating chazir or lacking kibud av v’eim is muttar. Nor does it mean that if asked you shouldn’t advise people to refrain from eating chazir or to insure they have kibud av v’eim.
Traffic can turn the most gentle man into a madman.
Report him to the EEOC for workplace discrimination.
They hacked the cloud?
flatbusher: You made your claim first; so provide support for your statement that “some people who are immature when they marry young never grow up.”
Chazal had an idea: pas b’melach tochal.
If the responses on the previous thread where this exact “learner/earner” discussion took place over five years ago is any indication, most responses there define learner/earner as simply spending less years in kollel:
In fact, I didn’t see anyone there define it as being a boy who will both work and learn full-time simultaneously. While that might not prove that definition wrong, it appears in the popular lexicon it simply means less years in kollel coupled with kovea itim.
Okay, boys, so it seems we simply have a differentiation in terminology that may be the cause for all this cross-talking static.
Q: Please define the difference between a working boy and a learner/earner.
A) There’s lots of gray area, but I think the girls looking for a “learner/earner” want someone who spends six-eight hours a day learning at the same level as a typical full time yeshiva/kollel fellow.
B) left yeshiva after mesifta and went to college and then work, while learner earner may be in yeshiva 2-3 years before embarking on path to earn a living
“A” is saying he’s effectively working full-time while almost effectively learning full-time simultaneously. Yeah, this kind of guy represents a tiny portion of guys out there – in shidduchim or not.
“B” is simply saying he’s learning full-time less years than, apparently, a “real” Kollel guy.
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.
Okay. Please define the difference between a working boy and a learner/earner.
Marrying young doesn’t stunt maturity. In fact delaying marriage may do exactly that.
flatbusher: I take it you went to university so I’m a bit surprised at your reading comprehension.
You wrote: “So I am not sure what the original letter in this thread aims to do. It sounds like those who sit around doing nothing and believe thatthey will get the same parnassa as if they actually worked.”
Yet the RY wrote fakert: “The standard of living since I first came to Eretz Yisroel 44 years ago has changed entirely. When I first came, there was a drastic difference between the standard of living in America and in Eretz Yisrael. Here there was no intense pursuit of worldly pleasures and a life of luxury… There is no doubt that if the standard of living were lower, the nisyonos would be lower… The nisyonos that Hashem sends us are due to the fact that we should lower our standard of living.”
How would you define a “learner/earner”? I would think (hope?) *all* frum working boys are learning Torah.
flatbusher: You seem to believe income potential is #1 before even middos.
If the only two guys available to marry your daughter were either a) a guy with tremendous middos tovos but little potential for a good income or b) a guy with not so good middos but with a master’s degree, a terrific job and income potential, who would you think preferable to marry – all other things being equal for the purposes of this discussion. Be honest in responding to the question as defined.
That was funny; haw haw haw. You believe only a small proportion of non-chasidish chareidi bochorim want to start working between right away through less than two years into marriage?
No need to “experience being adult” before marriage. Why should a young man not experience being married as soon as he’s an adult? Marriage paves the way for adulthood.
DY: You already offered your opinion that “there are few learner/earners”; I’m asking you how “few” learner/earners do you perceive there are.
DY: What proportion of shidduch aged boys do you think are serious about learning full-time?
DY: “I actually think there are few learner/earners, but a lot of girls looking for one.”
You think the vast majority of boys in the non-chasidish chareidi communities choose to learn full-time for notably longer than three years post-marriage?
“if a boy is serious about his learning, he likely is planning to learn full time for more than 2-3 years”
How would you define what constitutes being “serious about his learning” (presumably more than just how long he plans to learn full-time) and at minimum how many years would someone serious about his learning likely be learning full-time post-marriage?
What if someone doesn’t have an unlimited landline?
Even if you separate gratitude from respect, as Logicial seemingly suggested, you still must have gratitude for your parents for giving birth to you, feeding you, educating you (directly and/or paying your teachers) and supporting you. You must have both gratitude and respect.
Make it as simple as 123. Otherwise your screen name stretches everyone’s main CR screen whenever you made the last post on any thread.
A. Because the Torah commanded you to.
B. Because it will give you long life.
I don’t have unlimited internet, so, a reminder to all who e-mail me: Keep your e-mails short and directly to the point. No filibustering or useless greetings. This applies tenfold when leaving an attachment.
fny: You think that not going out in a mini-skirt “only” because of lifnei iver!? What source is there that going out like that is not okay?
Kinderlach, context! DM told DZ that he has a mesorah to go to college; and to prove it he said his tatte went to college, his mamme went to college and his zaida went to college. And all I said was that something having been done by your tatte, mamme and zaida is not how we define what is a mesorah. I didn’t come here and say you need a mesorah to go to college if you wanna go to college, like some of your responses to me presumed. Ribbono Shel Olam, please make sure people don’t learn Gemora like this!
DaMoshe: A mesorah doesn’t start with your grandfather. Did your great grandfather and any of your great great grandfathers go to college?
balancehumanbalance: Did you end up marrying him?
Comlink: There’s a ??? ????? ??? every month.
In any event, I’m glad to have revived this long dormant thread and finally have brought about relief and closure for our Jewish sister ‘be good’ through the insightful response by our Jewish brother ‘nishtdayngesheft’.
You’re saying that you own the land but this other guy leased from the State for $20 land that you legally own? This sounds highly dubious.
Lior: What do you think about an expansion of distance (e.g., online, or even through correspondence) courses and accelerated degree programs that allow people to attain a degree without having to go to a campus or take unrelated liberal arts coursework?
I think its a great idea. (As a general rule I’m not a fan of wives working out of the home, but that’s another topic. If they have to work and need to learn a trade, distance courses seem to be a great option.)