Joseph

Rav Moshe’s father was a Koidenover Chosid in his youth.

“Because they are very large communities, the percentage growth in the Five Towns, Far Rockaway, Teaneck or West Hempstead might be smaller than Lakewood, but not the gross numbers”

The gross numbers as well as the percent of frum growth in Lakewood far exceeds the combined total of frum growth in the places you cited.

DaMoshe, in relative terms, the frum growth in Lakewood is many multiple times the frum growth in all the areas you cited combined.

Perhaps the not-rich oilem can expand into a non-Jewish Brooklyn neighborhood until there’s a critical mass of frumkeit.

The way I see it there are three categories:

1) understand Rava ?????? and accept it ?????

2) understand Rava not ?????? and accept it ?????

3) don’t accept Rava ?????

Within category two there can be huge range regarding how much you have to drink. My original point in this thread was that the vast majority of rishonim/acharonim fall into categories two and three.

Why are you grouping categories two and three together when it would be more logical to group categories one and two together?

I also think that when it comes to anyone who just quoted Rava’s lashon, we can’t know what there exact position is. The most we can know is that they brought down Rava’s statement ????? so they are not in category three. But we don’t know how they understood Rava’s statement.

Why would they unclearly quote Rava’s lashon verbatim without further elucidation if they didn’t mean it in the simple sense?

Oh good. Now I can tell everyone that they shouldn’t get drunk because…

Ah! This is the problem – that people arguing against Purim drunkenness are often coming with an agenda as their starting point. They want to assur drunkenness on Purim and then go looking for shittos for fit that goal. And many even get upset at you merely for pointing out all the many valid shittos insisting on the halachic requirement to get drunk and all the real examples of contemporary and historic vintage of great and regular yiddden appropriately fulfilling this halacha by getting drunk on Purim.

BTW, it was worth starting this thread if for nothing else than to have you cite Rav Menashe Klein zt’l.

Ah Freilichen Shushan Purim un ah Gutte Erev Shabbos! (-:

My posek didn’t invoke any points about majority/minority. That inconsequential side-point was my own commentary that could have been better worded to avoid your consistently making more out of it than it is.

????? ??? ?????

??”? – only ??”?. (Acknowledging, though, ?”? – ??? ???? ?????).

Is it enough to mix up gematrias/stanzas/greatness of salvations etc.? I don’t know.

IOW, the shittas may require more drinks than just DUI.

P.S. This is “PUI”, so I’ll have to double-check this post later.

Majority/minority of published teshuvos/positions is irrelevant. Additionally, you haven’t addressed the last sentence in my first paragraph.

For purposes of this discussion, let’s say the shittos requiring you to be drunk enough to be considered driving under the influence of alcohol (had the person c’v been driving. Remember: there’s no chiyuv to drive – you can give the shaloch manos to your neighbor; the chiyuv is to get drunk.)

PAA: Many seforim and sh”ut and writings of Geonim, Rishonim and Achronim have been long lost to the ages. (Sefer burnings, church confiscations, stam lost, censors, etc.) So starting to count beans and trying to figure out a “majority” is meaningless and pointless. (Not to mention you can even miss some of what is known.) Additionally, certain poskim/Rishonim/Achronim carry more weight than others and/or have been accepted by Klal Yisroel or portions thereof over others.

The fact of the matter is that a chiyuv to get drunk on Purim (even putting aside the question of how drunk) has long long been accepted as the normative l’chatchila default widely accepted psak halacha in Klal Yisroel. In the new age of the last decade and a bit longer there’s been a strong push against getting drunk but even looking at current, recent and not long ago history you will find contemporary and historic examples of both laymen and gedolei yisroel getting plastered on Purim as the norm.

Well, then, I’ll use you as my Purim Rov!

Freilichen Purim!!

All he told me is that I must get drunk.