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rob: I’m making absolutely no predictions of the future comparitive safety of Israel versus elsewhere. I am simply refuting the farbissine tziyonim who come here spouting that Israel is the “safe haven of last resort”; which is a direct quote from an earlier comment above. They are the ones coming here to spout where it will be safer for Jews in the future. It is the Zionist Israelis who are imitating the prewar German Jews who were very comfortable and saying they were safe and sound where they were and need not worry. And not only with no basis, but in fact with events going in the complete opposite direction of their purported claims. We see Jews in Israel being subjected to more violence and killing than Jews anywhere else in the world Jews live in significant numbers. And this has been the case since the day the State has been founded through today. So to claim that Israel is a future “safe haven of last resort” is foolhardy. There is absolutely no evidence or reason think that the State is a safer place to live than for Jews to live in the U.S., Canada or Australia. Au contraire.
“Safe haven of last resort”? Meanwhile it is the least safe place where Jews live. More anti-Semitic violence and killings occur there than anywhere else Jews live. You can’t be confident that if there’s G-d forbid a future mass killing of Jews that it will not occur in Israel while the Jews elsewhere are safe. Jews in Tel Aviv aren’t safer from a nuke than Jews in Los Angeles and Jews in Haifa aren’t safer from a potential invading murderous army than Jews in Toronto.
I’m flattered that you’d google me.
Like having the most creative usernames, I write very memorable lines. No wonder over four years later random people can quote me.
I knew Yogi. Yogi was a friend of mine. And you, my friend, are no Yogi Berra.
Clairvoyant was one of my favorites.
Good night, Good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow, that I shall say good night till it be morrow.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
You must mean homework.
I’ve been voted as having the most creative usernames.
Pro forma.
In your feminist amos perhaps not.
There’s nothing greater than prayer, repentance and charity. If you “only” stick to doing those three things you’re doing far more than your fair share and are accomplishing much more than most.
Housework is the duty of the housewife. A husband should help sometimes.
FHW: You’re quoting Saint Bernard of Clairvaux.
golfer, no need to get melodramatic. They’re not encouraging the murder of our people. They’re harmless loons.
and don’t feel so comfortable in Israel – that is what Jews did for many years until…
They’re harmless loons and weirdos.
147 is half Yekke and half Oberlander.
If whipping someone into following the Torah would work (and the goyish authorities wouldn’t intervene), then we should utilize that method. In fact, beis din did exactly that when the goyim didn’t stop us.
Sam, anti-Zionists in YU? Are they the Neteurei Karta types, the Norman Finkelstein types or the J-Street types?
You have my written permission, Syag. Please be gentle with me. 🙂
Yes, tens of thousands of Jews live in Turkey today, rob. And need I remind you that Jews in Israel are attacked more frequently than Jews in Turkey? How many years has it been since the Turkish bombings and how many years was it before that the previous one to that occurred. Yet in Israel it is now a daily occurrence and even in “quiet” times attacks against Jews in Israel occur virtually every year. Israel experiences more anti-Jewish violence than virtually anywhere else in the world Jews live.
Did you know that almost 10,000 Jews also live in Iran? Even they experience less anti-Jewish violence than Jews in Israel.
I think you should check out your yichus.
/duck
You need my permission to respond? lol
Where are Jews more afraid to be openly Jewish – Israel or Turkey?
Israel.
Which gov’t is islamist and getting more islamist – Israel or Turkey?
Which government is militantly secular – Israel or Turkey?
There are virtually no jews in Turkey
There have been Jews in Turkey since, at least, the 5th century B.C.E., including tens of thousands of Jews openly living there today as Jews with public shuls. And Turkey has served for thousands of years as a haven from Christian European persecution and expulsion of Jews.
zsdad, why must you be cynical about anything positive the frum community does?
They only hold of the Gaon L’Chumrah on m’doraysa, like Shabbos, but they do not hold of the Gaon L’Chumrah for zman tefila.
As a parent and spouse of French nationals I hereby inform y’all that referring to the food as French Fries is most offensive to Frenchmen not desiring to be associated with such fatty unhealthy heart-attack inducing food.
Why would modern communications systems be abandoned?
gavra, the difference I can see is that if they hold R”T l’halacha and take the Gra as an added chumra, m’ikur hadin they’re only bound to their shitta (i.e. the R”T). As a practical matter they’ll probably always use the Gra as a chumra. But bshas hadchak they might rely on the R”T, without using the Gra’s zman l’chumra, in case of a bona fide emergency as their adherence to the Gra’s zman was only mekabel as a chumra and not as psak halacha. BTW, this same point would apply in reverse for those who accept the Gra l’halacha and take on the R”T l’chumra.
Does anyone consider those who [start and] end Shabbos early to be a Mechallel Shabbos because he doesn’t wait for the R”T’s zman for Shabbos to end? In that case we have lots of non-Shomer Shabbos folks davening in many non-chasidic shuls. There’s another queston for mw13: Are those ending Shabbos before the R”T zman doing the same as those starting Shabbos after the Gra’s zman.
As far those “(but not all)” who don’t even take the Gra l’chumra, and stick only to R”T kipshuta, I’m not sure how’d they’d answer your milah question. But if they rigidly followed the R”T on the zmanim, they’d be halachicly consistent. I think the R”T himself, and his kehila, would have the bris on Shabbos.
R”T is not chopped liver. And at the end of the day, members of kehilos who strictly follow R”T kipshuta, and have a mesora of following the halacha as such going back to their kehilos in Europe, have solid halachic ground to do so. Even if the M”B disagrees.
Mochul loch.
gavra, actually large portions hold R”T’s shitta kipshuta. Of those, most (but not all) use the other (non-R”T) shittas l’chumra on top of R”T. But even those that add the other shittas l’chumra, essentially hold R”T’s zman is their shitta per se.
There is a disagreement between the Rambam and the Raavad regarding someone who, in the course of his Torah learning, makes an honest mistake, misunderstands something he sees in the Torah, and erroneously derives from the Torah a belief that is actually Apikorsus. The Rambam holds this person is an Apikores and the Raavad holds that he is not. Even the Ravad, however, agrees that even though the person himself is not considered an Apikores, his mistaken belief is indeed considered Apikorsus.
mw13, why are you ignoring the question: Do you think the CC held that Rabbeinu Tam and his kehilla were mechallel Shabbos? Because you clearly imply so. A simple yes (or no with an explanation on your discrepancy) shall suffice.
The prohibition that melacha is forbidden after shkiya is undisputed. The machlokes is over when shkiya is. Rabbeinu Tam has a shitta that is held by large portions of Klal Yisroel. The reason “it is a possible prohibition punishable by stoning” (di’ho safek issur skilah) is due to the uncertainty whether Shabbos starts at shkiya or at tzeis. (And since it is uncertain, everyone agrees we must start Shabbos at shkiya, but not all poskim agree when shkiya is.)
Now please address the question posed to you.
well none of those are as offensive as being called an oveid a”z.
Being called a kidnapper is also highly offensive. But if someone is a kidnapper or oveid a”z, calling a spade a spade is only the truth.
Right. The quoted Biur Halacha refers to shkiah without specifying when shkiah is. That’s the contention by the R”T. R”T holds shkiah itself is later, something the CC doesn’t take exception to.
Correct. Do you think the CC held that Rabbeinu Tam and his kehilla were mechallel Shabbos?
CTLawyer, do you on principle not play Chinese Checkers or eat French Fries?
Y123: It is legal for non-profit/religious organizations to make cold calls to numbers on the dnc list.
Some people watch TV. Other people play pool instead. Others play video games. Others play solitare or old maid with a deck of cards. But we have the CR.
mw13, you misunderstood my comment that you quoted. I was not indicating that no rabbonim/poskim disagree with the R”T’s shitta. Rather my point was no serious rabbi holds that someone paskening or holding by the R”T’s zmanim is a shaigets or even has no halachic grounds to stand on.
mw13, there are numerous shittas where many people follow one other than the Chofetz Chaim’s shitta. Is everyone deviating from the CCs shitta on any hlaachic matter by following another widely followed shitta also shkotzim? Has Rabbeinu Tam become chopped liver? The Chofetz Chaim paskens tznius is obligatory from age three. I’m sure your three year old daughter is never C”V seen by anyone other than siblings or parents in short sleeves above the elbow.
“(and he’s not crazy)”
Thou doth protest too much.
If the issue is with the time of day the calls are being received, and not opposition to receiving the calls altogether, it is a legitimate discussion. But other than not making the calls at an unreasonably late hour, how is the fundraiser supposed to know when you are eating supper?
Raising tzedaka is a very Jewish midda.
I’m inviting Avi Weiss, Dov Linzer and Asher Lopitan this year.
It’s a made up issue and the people that ever make any hay of it, besides being excruciating few as Sam said, are only mo zionists angry at Satmar’s shitta on zionism. Sam and no one will be able to name any mainstream, semi-meainstream or even semi-semi-mainstream name that has any issue with Shabbos and Satmar. In fact, the issue has nothing to do with Satmar. The kehilos in Hungary at-large as well as many other places in Eastern Europe had zmanim that Shabbos started and ended later than the common American zman. It not only is a 100% legitimate shitta, but it has nothing to do with Satmar or chasidim in general as it was held by Oberlanders and many other non-chasidic kehilos in Europe. Furthermore, since post-WWII in America Satmar has actually held the earlier zman to start Shabbos (they still use the later zman to end Shabbos) after an agreement between the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Ahron Kotler than the chasidim will start Shabbos later per the then Litvish practice and the Litvish will end Shabbos later per the then Chasidish practice.
Non-profit mosdos making fundraising calls is legal both according to secular law and Jewish law.
I invited a tziyoni last year for the Shabbos Project. Today he is Neteuri Karta.