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I don’t have time to read all this right now – might try to later.
From your description, it doesn’t sound like there is a reason to.
I think the only way to get to a maskana is by asking people with family members who are retarded what they think.
I can hear both sides of the issue, but I think that they are really the only ones whose opinions count.
I didn’t have a chance to read this thread yet – just the op. To tell you the truth, I don’t know if it would have occurred to me until a few years ago that it’s offensive to use the word this way.
But I have a friend whose daughter is retarded, and she told me once that one of her kids was really upset because of something that happened in school. I don’t remember the details but I think it had to do with one kid calling another kid retarded (except that it was in Israel so he used the hebrew word), and my friend’s kid (and my friend too) both thought it was very offensive.
I did point out to my friend that you can’t really blame the kid since it wouldn’t occur to a kid who doesn’t have a retarded sibling (and isn’t aware that his classmate does) that there was anything offensive about it. She agreed with me, but still found it upsetting.
I realized as I am writing this that I might have the situation wrong. It is possible that what happened was that he told his friend that he belongs in _____School and he named the school that my friend’s daughter is in (not knowing about my friend’s daughter).
In any case, I could hear why someone would not think it’s a problem to use the R word, but I could also hear why someone would. I want to ask my friend what she thinks.
Thank you for clarifying DY. I was a bit bothered by the use of the term and was debating if I should say something. I decided not to because it’s not a clear-cut halachic issue, but I was concerned that there are people who could be offended. So I’m glad you clarified.
Sources for halachos in my previous post:
1. Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim, Siman 4, Seif 13: If you are up all night it’s a safek if you have to wash.
Rema (that’s who Ashkenazim go by) there says that you must wash but w/o a bracha.
Mishna Brurah (whom Ashkenazim generally go by l’maaseh) says that it is a safek if you make a bracha. L’maaseh, he says that you should use the bathroom so that you will definitely be able to say a bracha.
2. Siman 4, Seif 3, S.A & M.B there.
3. I don’t have a source off-hand.
4. Siman 4, Seif 6 & 7, SA & MB. If you can, it’s better l’chatchila to use a kli, koach gavra and a r’viis of water. But if you can’t, you are still yotzei (fulfilled your obligation) w/o it. I made a mistke before about the koach gavra. I was thinking of the fact that the water has to be poured and you can’t just dip your hands in something.
Abba S – +1 except:
1.If you stay up all night, you have to wash (halacha l’maaseh at least). The question is on the bracha.
2. you are supposed to wash before you use the bathroom because your hands may have ruach ra’ah on them. It is correct that you should say the bracha only after using the bathroom.
3. Most poskim say that you are allowed to wash in the bathroom because today’s bathrooms aren’t real bathrooms. On a plane where there is no other option, it is certainly fine.
4. It is better to use a cup, but if you don’t have one it is okay as long as it’s koach gavra and 3 times over each hand.
DY – sorry, I just realized that post wasn’t from you.
real one: Chulent meat
Chill and meet
So who changed the title? The mods?
“I don’t know about chareidi schools, but the ulpana my kids attended was not free – I think it was about $1,000 a year per kid.”
From what I have heard, that is peanuts compared to the cost of most MO high schools in the US! Of course that’s not the same as free, but if you’re comparing to the costs in the US, it is way cheaper.
Did your kids dorm?
Can you start a new one for me, PBA?
sure. I remember having a big problem on a flight to EY once. I had a window seat next to a super-annoying not-Jewish older lady whom I had to keep asking to move everytime I had to use the b.r, so I really tried to limit the amount of times I got up.
I was quite offended when she made a comment about how often I used the ladies’ room on the flight! I thought 3 times for a 10 hour trip was pretty good!
Anyhow, I was super-uncomfortable asking her to move so I could wash negelvasser, so I wasn’t sure what to do, and I didn’t know the halachos at the time, so I think I really messed up both with washing negelvasser and brachos.
The point is that it is good you are asking someone even if the CR isn’t the best choice, because once you are on the flight you might not have anyone to ask, and there are a lot of sheilahs that come up on planes.
Golfer – thanks but Avrum gets the credit really. I hadn’t thought of it – I was just adding to his comment.
I was really impressed by your first one though – that was really good!
Who’s Pelosi and Reid?
I’m really disappointed. I started reading through the thread thinking there was going to be a new mad libs to play at the end 🙁
Who wants to make up a new one for me?
“Rabosei, nevarach”
APY -lol.
Avrum in MD – I was under the impression that a spout is okay for negelvasser (since m’ikar hadin, you don’t even need a kli). Or do you mean l’chatchila it’s still better not to have a spout if you have another choice?
DY, Regarding your second to last post – You said that you think the main reason for divorce (in the cases you know of) was that at least one did not want it to work. Why do you think that one of them didn’t want it to work? Do you think that:
1. That’s just life. Sometimes people end up married to people who are not right for them and there’s nothing that anyone can do about it because there was is way to know beforehand.
2. Someone had a serious problem that there was no way to know beforehand.
3. Someone had a serious problem that could have been known beforehand.
4. They weren’t a good shidduch, maybe one of them didn’t really like the other one enough to be marrying them, but felt pressurred to get married and this could have been prevented if they either had gone out longer or there had been less pressure put on them or they had used more common sense before getting engaged.
5. The marriage could have worked out if both had been willing to make it work.
or 6. You have no idea. How could you possibly know?
DY +1
“Lilmod, which godol was that?”
He’s on this list:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/addresses-of-current-gedolim-1#post-448793
DY – do you still agree with yourself?
Wow, Happygirlygirl! That is wonderful news! You should be zoche to build a bayis neeman b’Yisrael!
okay, so I can’t ask you his name or anything about him, but I can ask you the most important questions:
1. How many times did you go out?
2. Was it a beshow?
3. Did you go out or have sit-ins?
4. Where did you go – hotel lobby or someplace fun?
j/k – you don’t have to answer any of those questions. I am curious to know if it was a b’show because I think you had spoken about that.
Golfer – good one!
“Is Dating Other Posters Tznius”
lol.
LF & Person1 – lol.
It depends. Not always.
“Chelsea Piers is a sports arena where they have bowling and some other sporting activities. The other place I haven’t heard of.”
Thanks for answering. Sounds like fun – too bad it’s in the US and I can’t go there.
Avrum in MD – while there is a lot of truth to what you’re saying, the question is how to get to that point (of being married) and different people need different things.
Big Golem:
“So let’s assume that it is in fact true. Does fewer divorces automatically mean happier marriages?”
no not necessarily. I was commenting on Joseph’s comment. He specified both – happier marriages and fewer divorces. My understanding was that he was listing both as two different things, both of which SEEM to be found more often in the Yeshivish world (not that one is necessarily proof of the other). When I agreed with him, that is what I was agreeing with.
“lilmod ulelamaid- I don’t think anyone has numbers to back it up. It’s an assumption we all make because it’s something we want to believe is true. The frummer we are = the more restrictive the dating is = less divorce.”
I wasn’t basing it on that. I was mainly basing it on what I see. Additionally, I do think that people who are more “Yeshivish” the way I define the term would be more likely to have better marriages (in general). I wasn’t saying that this is because the way they date is more restrictive. I was simply saying that I don’t think it makes sense to attribute the rise in divorce to the Yeshivish method of dating (which doesn’t mean that it’s impossible that there can be improvements made in it). My main point was really this last one – that was the context of my statements.
I deliberately didn’t say his name because I didn’t think it would be right to quote him by name in such a public forum without permission. But he’s someone whom you (and I think everyone) would accept.
LB – for negelvasser, you can use any kind of kli (vessel) (or even turning on and off a faucet if you don’t have a kli (vessel)).
Washing for bread is more complicated. But it doesn’t have to have any handles in any case.
“Do you have to wash if you sleep in kollel? On Shabbos during the d’var Torah?”
Hope you don’t sleep for half an hour in kollel.
The halachos of washing for bread are more complicated. I believe there may be a problem of using a water bottle or paper cup (although I’m not sure). For waking up from sleeping, a water bottle or disposable cup are fine.
“Do you have to wash if you didn’t sleep in a bed?”
I don’t know for sure, but I think if it’s “sheina kavua” you probably do. But I just realized that she did say “nap”, so I don’t know. I was told that it’s not clear that I have to wash if I sleep on a bus, but I don’t think I was told that I definitely don’t.
I was concerned that it might be a problem to wash outside because you’re not supposed to wash on the ground, and I was told that since it wasn’t clear that I have to wash at all, I didn’t have to worry about it (taking into account that I try to find a place at the edge of the sidewalk where people aren’t likely to be walking).
In any case if it’s nighttime, and it’s the only sleep you’re getting even if you are calling it a nap, I wonder if it would be different.
In any case, you would have to wash negelvasser at alos hashachar regardless of where and how much you slept.
Nesiah Tova!
Person1 :”* Personally I don’t really find dating to be fun, unless you get married at the end.”
+ 1,000! Torture would probably be a better word.
Person1 +1! For your entire post, but especially the first paragraph. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Especially if people see that the regular way of dating hasn’t worked, then they may need to do something different.
And by different, I mean going to the zoo or playing a board game and going out more than 4 times if they need to.
And btw, what are Dave & Busters and Chelsea Piers?
Benignuman – first of all, I am impressed by your saying that you don’t mean to pick on me. I think that’s a first for the Coffee Room (and it’s not like you then went to say anything particularly offensive.)
I think you missed my point somewhere. I had been somewhat offended by a comment someone had made criticizing the way I date. I thought that was somewhat hypocritical (amongst other things). There is a lot less “schok and kalus rosh” on my dates than there is in the CR. You yourself said that you wouldn’t consider Yeshivish dating to be “schok and kalus rosh”.
And I have been told that I should date in more casual ways than I do by people who are more qualified to be giving aitza than the people here are.
One of the Gedolei Hador told me that I should be going to singles’ events. He said he was at a chasuna once and he had 20 boys lining up on one side of the mechitza and 20 girls lining up on other to get brachos for him, and he was like, “Why are you talking to me? You should be talking to each other.”
In terms of halacha, my understanding of the halacha is that it is a halacha (not a chumra) that men and women are not allowed to talk to each other more than necessary. The reason that it is what I call a “grey area of halacha” is that there is no clear definition of “more than necessary”, since this would very much depend on the individual and his/her situation. For example, I feel that personally, for me, posting in the CR is something necessary right now. And for me, it may be necessary to go out more than 4 times even though it might not be for someone else. And I may need to do something other than sit in a hotel lobby on a date. I don’t really know yet and I guess I won’t know till I meet my zivug, IY”H. But if it turns out that I need to do so, then I have a chiyuv to do so even if it’s not how I’m used to doing things.
It was Yomtov time when the poster publicized going to the Kosel. I think it was Erev Y”K. There were so many people there then – I think my friend even mentioned that her son tried going that day and turned back because it was impossible to get there.
With the whole world there, it’s not really a safety risk. It’s like your telling me that you are going to EY today. There are probably less people on planes flying to EY today than there were at the Kosel that day.
You see sometimes I really can tell what people are thinking even when it really is an assumption (as it was in this case) 🙂
Must be the Binah Yeseirah (LF, are you listening?).
Snooper, how’s it going? Did you come up with something? Did any of the ideas here help? I’m curious to know what you ended up doing.
Shkoyach again on trying to go off of movies!I’m sure it must be super-hard. Hope you’ve been successful. If you haven’t been, remember the ikar is that you are trying and every bit of effort will be greatly rewarded, IYH in both this world and the Next!
Big Golem – did you figure out what to do yet?
btw, I’m very impressed that you put so much thought into your dates.
Boruch Hashem! Thanks for letting us know!
Welcome to the CR! Meet RebYidd.
I guess because you said “any will do”, so the moderators were like, “ok, which subtitle should we choose? Eeny, meeny, miny, mo…”
correct
APY +1
Avrum in MD – +1! Thank you very much for sticking up for me! Sorry I didn’t comment earlier. I was actually busy writing a long post to LC that got deleted when my Internet decided to crash just as I tried posting it.
BigGolem – that’s why I added the words imho. I knew someone would ask that question. 🙂
No, I don’t have numbers to back it up. It is just my opinion, and I mentioned it only because I was responding to Joseph’s statement and pointing out that even though I agree with him on that, I don’t see it as a contradiction to my statement. And there was no need for me to have statistics in order to make that point.
I think the comment about not taking Joseph seriously was a bit offensive. I see no reason not to take his comments in this thread seriously. You may disagree (as I do to some extent), but there it is no reason not to take him seriously. I think that his comments were meant seriously and were l’sheim Shamayim out of a sincere concern for tznius.
I was considering repeating it but did not think it was appropriate to do so. ZD knows what he said, and I don’t think it’s right to repeat it (either to him or to the Poseik it was said about).
btw, if you dothink that people should apologize for errors that result in people being corrected or criticized unfairly, wouldn’t that mean that you owe me an apology for your last few posts?
I do appreciate the relatively polite tone of your posts, and I understand that the mistake was inadvertant. I wasn’t going to say anything about an apology, since I really am not interested in getting into an argument. I am only mentioning it since you mentioned it.
That particular comment (of mine) was referring to a comment that ZD made in a previous post. I do not want to repeat his comment.
Avrum in MD – saying “IF it’s assur, then it’s assur” does not imply that it is in fact assur. I made it very clear that I have no idea if it is in fact assur.
Kosher phones don’t even have texting or data. I actually have no idea what data is. Is that internet?