Lilmod Ulelamaid

What are hotcakes? And why do they sell so well?

And aren’t caramel sufganiyot better – shouldn’t the expression be “The hotcakes were so good; they sold like caramel sufganiyot”?

A newly married girl I know asked her new husband to promise her that he won’t take a second wife when Mashiach comes.

As soon as she told me, she was really embarrassed that she told me.

Ubiquitin: “MEno

Even if rare for an individual collectively it isnt rare.”

Now that is a logical response to Meno’s (and to some extent my) argument.

However, you then went on to talk about learning CPR. That wasn’t the original argument. We had been talking about what people who l’maaseh don’t know CPR should do, not about whether or not someone should learn CPR. My point (and I think Meno’s as well) was that if someone does not know CPR, the first thing they should know is to call 911/hatzalah/101 in Israel.

We had not been talking about whether or not everyone should learn CPR. However, regarding CPR, that’s also not so simple. I have had a few CPR courses along the way (high school requirement, college requirement, etc). At least I think they were CPR – I’m not sure – I couldn’t follow at all, and I learned nothing from the course, except that now I am more likely to panic in an emergency because I will feel like there is something I am supposed to be doing and I won’t know what.

Letakein girl – if you google Rabbi Feivelson, the first two entries refer to the same person. It looks like it may be the Rav you are referring to.

He sounds like someone very chashuve, talmid of Rav Aharon Kotler, zatsal, born in Radin and had some kind of connection to the Chofetz Chaim, zatsal, learned in Kollel Chazon Ish for many years, I think he might be a Rosh Yeshiva in Tzfast now.

Does that sound like the Rav you are looking for?

Health – I already explained to you what Meno meant, and your response did not relate to what I said. I am sorry that you are having a hard time understanding. I will explain it one more time, and then, I apologize but I will not be able to explain again.

According to Meno, this is a rare occurrence (and t/f there is no reason that anyone has to learn it). Your response to him was to acknowledge that it is a rare occurrence, but to say that people have to learn it anyhow because it is life-threatening. So he pointed out that according to that logic (that people have to know what to do in any life-threatening situation even if it occurs rarely), everyone should have to know what to do if a pilot falls dead.

Now you are saying that the reason that people have to know what to do in that situation is that it was not a hypothetical situation, since it really happened. However that was not your argument earlier and that was not the argument that Meno was responding to when he brought up pilots. Your argument at that time was that it doesn’t matter how rare an occurrence it is as it is life-threatening. That is what he was responding to.

edited

WTP – your post reminds me of the time we had an emergency situation. My brother had the flu or something and suddenly had trouble breathing.

My mother panicked and told me to call 911. So I picked up the phone and started dialing 911. My mother was like, “No, I mean the Israeli 911!.” So I’m like, “what is that?” So my mother picks up the phone and calls herself.

As soon as someone answered the phone, she tells him, “??? ??? ??? ????”

I cracked up. My mother got mad at me for laughing during a serious time. I actually did it on purpose – I felt that her panic was not helpful for my brother and his breathing, and that by making a joke, I would lighten the situation. It worked – he started laughing too, which meant he had to have been breathing.

ps: if anyone didn’t get that, the hebrew word for breathing is: ?????

Health, in terms of your question regarding ‘what does Meno’s post about planes have to do with anything’, I cut and pasted the relevant parts of that discussion, so you can see where it fit in:

Meno-“It’s very easy to give instructions for one specific situation, but the reality is that there are a thousand different emergencies one could encounter, and it’s unreasonable for a person to be trained to deal with every single one, and it is unreasonable to expect an untrained person to be able to act properly under that kind of stress.And if you’ll say that a person collapsing on the floor is more common, so everyone should be prepared – I’ve been alive for quite a few years, and I have never seen it happen, so it can’t be that common.”

Health: “I wasn’t talking about more common, but about life threatening!”

Meno: “So by that logic, everyone should learn how to fly an airplane, in case the pilot drops dead mid-flight.”

You said that people need to know what to do in the situation of someone collapsing (even though it’s not common) because it is life threatening. So Meno pointed out that according to that logic, everyone should know what to do for any life threatening situation, such as a pilot falling dead, l”a.

Avram -“This updated guidance seems geared towards encouraging more bystanders, even those untrained, to do something.”

Health: “That’s exactly the point! “Untrained”

It’s beyond me, some of the posts in this topic!”

Health, we tried explaining to you.. In any case, without reexplaining everything again, the bottom line is as follows:

You may have some valid points and you may in fact be giving over valuable information. The problem is that you are doing it by way of bashing someone else (the writers and editors of the newspaper quoted).

You are assuming that their shitah must be wrong and yours must be right even though you have not given any proofs to that effect. And even though, we in the CR have given you many arguments as to why their shita makes the most sense.

You want to bring a different shita, feel free to bring a different shita, but don’t bash those that presented the other shita and don’t ignore the arguments of those who agree with it and keep insisting that they are wrong.

Thank you for listening.

It’s all about what you’re used to. When you get used to it, it’s not a big deal. And you usually don’t need an hour nowadays, but that might depend where you live.

But speaking of water temperature, it is much easier to do the dishes here on winter Friday nights – the water is not freezing like it is in the States!

Really, I think it comes down to how much do we appreciate the opportunity to live in EY? If we realized what a zchus it was…Moshe Rabeinu was chalishing for the opportunity to live in EY, with or without hot water. I know you’re not Moshe Rabeinu, and I am not trying to make you feel guilty, I am just trying to put things in perspective.

LU -“If you have a reason why you think that Meno’s argument is not a valid argument, please state it. But to keep repeating your initial assertion is not a response.”

Health: “What does a pilot losing his ability to fly have to do with this topic?

There is absolutely no correlation!”

I actually made that comment in response to a different point. I wrote my post before that post of Meno’s was posted. My comment was a continuation of the post I wrote it in.

Regarding your saying, “What does a pilot…”, Meno answered you already. If I have time, maybe I will try to explain again.

LB – what happened was that the shadchan called me up and told me she had a shidduch for me. She told me that she thought he was matim for me for 2 reasons:

1. His age (he was about 10 years older than me)

2. Even though he thinks that he’s Chareidi, he obviously isn’t because he works.

So I said to her, “I’m not sure that working makes someone not Chareidi, but if your basis for the shidduch is that he is not Chareidi, that’s not a good basis because I am Chareidi.”

So she asked me, “Where are you living now?”

Since I had previously been living in at home in a not-Chareidi neighborhood, I thought that she was going to tell me that I’m not chareidi because of where I live. So I davka told her that I’m not living at home anymore, I am living in ______. Since ________ was a Chareidi neighborhood, I thought that would prove that I’m Chareidi, but instead her response was, “If you don’t live at home, that means you’re not Chareidi”.

This conversation happened many years ago in another lifetime and doesn’t really matter anymore. You are right that if someone is self-confident about the fact that they are Chareidi, these things will be less of a problem. The problem is that at the time, I wasn’t sure what category I fit in, not because I didn’t know who I was, but because I didn’t know what the categories meant.And that made things very hard for me. I don’t recommend moving to Israel if you don’t know what the categories mean and what category you are. I used to be very anti-label, but over the years, I have come to realize that they are necesssary in society today.

Thanks LB. Never would have guessed that one!

You can do what the Reform Jew sitting next to me on a flight to Florida did – he flew separately from his family so that if one plane crashed they wouldn’t all die, and he made sure to sit next to someone who ordered Kosher food so she’d be able to pray for him if the plane crashed!

Okay, so he didn’t actually plan the second part, but when he saw I had ordered kosher food, he told me that he was very happy he was sitting next to me, since I could pray for him if the plane crashed. At some point in the conversation, when I excused myself because I had to say my prayers, he was like, “please, go ahead and pray!” I never met anyone so scared of a plane crash in my life!

DY & Joseph – +1. Additionally, I am sure that Rav Shach, zatsal, himself thought that Chabad does many good things.

Additionally, we aren’t necessarily even talking about agreeing with Rav Shach but about not saying that he was wrong.

Also, as I pointed out by Rav Avigdor Miller, it’s not a question of whether or not you agree with his conclusions; the issue is that you are saying that he did something wrong by giving a reason for a tragedy.

If Rav Shach, zatsal gave a reason for a tragedy, then you cannot say it is wrong to do so (for someone on Rav Shach’s level).

#3 – You won’t be able to do anything because you will also be dead, chas v’shalom, by the time you realize what happened

lol. (I guess that’s the wrong answer since it’s one of the first five)

Abba – I think Golfer’s point (and mine as well) was that we have heard that there might be a problem sticking your hand in the wall, since at some point past the beginning of the wall is an area of Kedusha. Since we don’t exactly where this point is, we have to be choshesh that it can start at some point past the beginning.

I don’t know if there is a basis for this or not and I think Golfer also wasn’t sure.

Baruch Dayan Emes.

Avrum in MD – I think you belong in my thread. (btw, whenever I see your name, I think that you are a doctor.)

“but your comment that your sole purpose is to serve and support your kollel husband are also offensive”

What??? If you read my posts carefully, I made it quite clear that I don’t think that way – that is what I was told!!! And it was clear that I was upset by it!!

I am offended that you called my comments offensive! Please read what I write carefully next time before commenting! Thank you!

LU -“They should call for help right away”

Health: Wrong! They should

Step 1:

Check to see if the scene is safe.

Step 2:

Etc..

Health, you said that already. I think you lost track of the discussion here.

Health:If someone is on the ground, everyone should follow these steps…

Meno: (argument against everyone having to know those steps): You can’t expect everyone to know exactly what to do in every situation.

Health: (response to Meno’s argument): that’s why everyone should learn CPR.

Lilmod: (response to Health’s response to Meno’s argument): That was not what you had been talking about. You were talking about laymen who don’t know CPR (and therefore Meno’s argument that you can’t expect them to know what to do in every situation is a valid argument.)

If you have a reason why you think that Meno’s argument is not a valid argument, please state it. But to keep repeating your initial assertion is not a response.

iacisrmma: I think those that felt it was wrong felt that way because the type of cookies is taken from x-mas, in their opinions. If that is the case, I would imagine that the fact that it is made in the shape of a menorah or dreidel wouldn’t help.

However, I’m not convinced it’s a problem. Personally, I never heard such a thing before.

Of course, the fact that I never heard of it, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not, but the fact that the ONLY place I have heard of it (after living in this world for many years in many places) is online w/o a source does make it suspect.

Also, it is just a type of cookie and I can’t imagine it is only used for x-mas. In fact, this is the first time that I ever heard that it has anything to do with x-mas.

But if anyone has any sources for this idea, I would be open to hearing more about it. Thanks!

I don’t really see the contradiction between RY’s two statements.

The only thing she is doing is calling. She is just making sure first that there is a reason to call. That’s not called “doing something besides call for help”. What if she had mentioned that she had to ask someone for the number first – would that be called “doing something other than calling for help”?

Sechel HaYashar – I have heard that quote before, but I didn’t know the source, or even if there is a source. Thank you for sharing.