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“Someone from Lakewood “IHR HATORAH” (in her words) wants something posted on the Web”
I don’t see a problem with that. She knows people are online anyhow, and those are the very people she wants to send this message to. And if you are going to be watching something online, this is pretty harmless.
Whether or not we agree with her, she does sound sincere. I give her credit for standing up for her views.
And I can hear her point, although if I still lived in Lakewood, I would be very happy about a mall personally. When the first pizza place was going to open in Lakewood, Rebbetzin Rischel Kotler, a”h was very upset about it and put a stop to it.
So she’s not coming from nowhere, whether others agree with her views or not.
Jewish source – that is true, but it doesn’t sound like this guy is too rigid or is unhappy. Not using internet is not being rigid if not using internet makes you happier. I think that LB thinks that it is rigid because for her it would be, but that doesn’t mean it is for him.
Personally, I am much happier and feel much free’er and connected to Hashem when I am in a house or room where there is no internet.
When someone is closed off from any secular things, they are actually much free’er and more open and less rigid, because they are more open to Torah and Avodas Hashem.
But that is only the case if it is real.
How do mashgichim give hashgachos for these cruises if they are treif?
I thought xianity was not avoda zara for a goy, but I’m not 100% sure. Also, there’s a difference between different types of xianity. Catolicism is very different than Protestantism. Even within Protestantism, there are different types. I know a giyoris who used to be a minister. She told me that in her religious they didn’t believe that yushka was a god.
But again, I’m not sure what the halacha is for a goy regarding avoda zara.
And I didn’t realize about the live shrimp. (gross!)
LB- I see my life as being 100% to serve Hashem and so do many people I know. There are plenty of girls like that in the world, so that shouldn’t stop him from getting married. It sounds like he is just going out with the wrong type of girls.
I’m not sure if “living one’s life 100% to serve Hashem” necessarily equals “no internet use”, although they probably go together most of the time.
I definitely don’t think that “living one’s life 100% to serve Hashem” has to mean not recognizing that there are grey areas in life.
One grey area might be that while a particular person may be living his/her life 100% to serve Hashem, he/she feels that he/she needs to use Internet.
In any event, for this guy, living his life 100% to serve Hashem means not using Internet, and I don’t think he should compromise on that.
Sometimes a person may have to recognize that their spouse could be different than them is some ways and that is okay. But internet use is something that affects the whole household, so if that is important to him, I don’t think he should compromise on it.
I’m assuming that you are talking about girls who want to have internet in the house. But if you are referring to a girl who has the same basic goals in life as him, but does use internet now as a single girl but is willing to give it up when she gets married, then that is different. Likewise, if she uses it at work to some extent but is careful and again, is willing not to have it in the home.
In general, the extent to which someone should compromise on religious matters depends on so many factors – his age, how long he has been dating, whether it is reasonable to expect that he will find what he has been looking for, etc. It is a very individual decision involving many factors so I don’t know if anyone could really advise you regarding what someone else should do.
I am wondering why he is having a hard time finding girls who don’t use internet? Is he in the wrong circles? Are the shadchanim not getting what he is looking for? Is he possuling any girl who ever uses internet (as opposed to girls who insist on having it in the home)?
“By the same token, its probably forbidden to go to almost any hotel, especially a resort hotel.
You might pass the pool area or see someone coming from pool”
Okay, so if hotels are the same as cruise ships, then they are assur too. That doesn’t mean that cruise ships are mutter.
Tachlis, for those of you who have been to both and would know – are hotels as bad as cruise ships?
“So I found the full PDF of this online “How to Get Deeper Into Torah Without Going Off the Deep End,” by Friedman the Tutor.”
Yes. It’s really good! Definitely something you should read.
“Also, it may not be the wallet of a yid.”
We are supposed to be mechalel Shabbos to save a goy’s life too. But I don’t know about safek pikuach nefesh (when it’s a real safek pikuach nefesh, unlike this case).
My first two dates were horrible. After that, I was fine. Meaning, I wasn’t uncomfortable, and I had no problem sitting there making conversation. But it was kind of like the same way that I would have no problem sitting and making conversation with a wall.
“lilmod ulelamaid,
Thank you. That’s who it is”
Cool. He’s a very special, sincere Talmid Chacham.
I was under the impression that anyone can write whatever they want on Wikipedia. Is that true? If so, it would mean that Wikipedia is no more autoritative than the posts by anonymous posters in the CR.
I would have thought that a kosher cruise meant the whole ship. It sounds like that’s not the case. Is that correct?
So basically, a kosher cruise just means that there is a kosher dining room and some of the entertainment is kosher. Is that what it is?
Doesn’t he technically already keep the 7 Mitzvos b’nei Noach? I know one of them is not to kill, but he hasn’t actually killed any Jews; he just supports those that do.
I think that in order for something to be considered “safek pikuach nefesh” on Shabbos, there has to be a reasonable level of “safek”. Otherwise, just about anything would be allowed on Shabbos.
I was once at a Shabbos Seudah where this was being discussed. The question was “what is the level of safek that would constitute a “safek pikuach nefesh halachically?” I don’t know the answer to that question, but there is no way that your situation would constitute a “safek pikuach nefesh” since there is absolutely no reason to assume that the person in question would need medical care on Shabbos or that he has necessary documents in his wallet (and this is even without Joseph’s post that he wouldn’t need it anyhow).
Is that you, Joseph?
Letakein Girl – so which Rav Feivelson were you talking about?
Bais Yaakov Liberal – how’s the seminary search going? I think you said that today is your last day in Israel. Did you have a chance to look into any of the schools I recommended? I hope so. Hatzlacha!
ZD – I think that originally there was a takana that no one could listen to music anywhere (chasunas, etc may have been an exception), but the Poskim allow it since we are too emotionally weak nowadays and couldn’t survive without music. I believe Rav Moshe Feinstein has a teshuva about it.
There is a separate takana about live music in Yerushalayim even at a chasuna. As far as I know everyone holds by it, but there are different opinions regarding the details (what exactly counts as part of Yerushalayim? Can you have a one-man band? etc.)
M – unfortunately, what you are writing about is all too true. I’m still trying to recover from the shock of recent revelations.
I am not sure that I agree that the teachers should focus less on connecting. I do think it’s very important, but there has to be more of a sense of boundaries. This is true for women teachers as well as men teachers.
The seminaries need to focus on establishing a healthy atmosphere and hiring teachers who are emotionally healthy and have a good sense of boundaries. There should also be some kind of therapist on staff, and the teachers should have some psychology training. I think the schools have been working on some of these issues in recent years.
There are men teachers who teach in seminaries and are good at connecting to their students but have a good sense of boundaries and healthy relationships.
It is true that such people are in the minority. And the charisma issue is a very real issue in the seminary world. That is why they should only hire men teachers who are older and have a good sense of boundaries. And the women teachers should be the main ones who are there for the students to connect with.
“What’s interesting is that if this was true: No music or singing or playing allowed at all, how would anyone know what music was?”
There are a lot of goyim in the world. Also Jews who are tinok shenishba or off the derech. Even if we weren’t allowed to listen to music, you couldn’t help hearing it on the busses and in the stores and coming from your goyish neighbors’ houses.
Also, I think it was always allowed at chasunas, etc.
And, I think you can miss something even if you don’t know what you are missing. Like we are missing something because we don’t have the Bais HaMikdash even if we don’t realize what it is that we are missing. People turn to drugs and alcohol and other such things because they are missing something in their lives (love, Torah, connection to others and to Hashem) and they never had it so they don’t know what it is that they are missing, but they know they are missing something.
Of course all Jews should do Teshuva, but if a Rav gives mussar about a specific issue, he is talking about that issue and anyone who needs to do teshuva in that area.
LB- I think they weren’t moderated yet when you wrote yours. That is why I wanted to make sure you saw them
LB- regarding Kiddush Hashem issues, read my above posts (which you didn’t see before you wrote your last one) if you didn’t already.
In terms of leniencies for shaking hands, it is not so simple. I think that most Rabbis says that most people should not do so, but you should ask your own sheilah since it is the type of thing that may depend on the person and the circumstance.
Geordie – that was good! I never would have chapped! Of course, it probably helps to be a boy.
“I don’t think it has anything to do with Rabi Yochanan ben Zakai’s deal with the Romans.”
I think it was one of the decrees made in order to remember the Churban. Like not wearing all your jewelry at once, and leaving a part of your wall unplastered, etc.
LF – nice!
LB – it is very rare to hear of anyone nowadays who doesn’t listen to music at all. That is why you never heard of it. I think I may know one Rav who doesn’t listen to music at all, but I’m not even sure about him.
The halacha is different for Simchas. I don’t think anyone says you can’t have music at a chasuna. It’s only in Yerushalayim that there may be a problem with having a band at a chasuna. Some people deliberately make weddings outside Yerushalayim to avoid the problem, some say the problem is only in certain parts of Yerushalayim and I think some might say it depends on the size of the band.
Your Rav or Rebbetzin won’t be offended if you ask. Just about everyone today listens to music and there are reasons why it’s allowed, so no one would feel bad about it. They are not doing anything wrong, so there is no reason for them to feel bad. But it is very sweet and sensitive of you to ask!
LB- My understanding is that while technically all music should be forbidden year round, the poskim today allow it since most people are not capable of never listening to music plus listening to Jewish music can bring people to Dveykus (closeness) to Hashem. I believe Rav Moshe Feinstein may have a teshuva to this effect.
My understanding also is that the reason we don’t listen to music during the 3 weeks is because we really aren’t supposed to listen to music year round, but we are not holding by that, but at least during the 3 weeks, we shouldn’t listen to music.
Personally, I have a hard time not listening to music even during the 3 weeks and sefira, so I asked a sheilah and I was told that I am allowed to. I do try to avoid it during the 9 days at least if I can. I also try to stick to Acapella. I think there are Rabbanim who differentiate between acapella and regular music and there are Rabbanim who differentiate between live music and not-live music.
But, as Geordie said, you should ask your own sheilah to someone who knows you.
lesschumras: “The weather wasn’t warm enough for bathing suits, especially if you didn’t go to the swimming pool on the top deck.”
That’s a smart way to avoid shmira ainayim issues – go in the winter!
“While it was once common in certain seminaries to have male teachers/talmeidi chachamim, I would not be surprised if this model is not changing.”
Unfortunately, over the past year, I think it has become more obvious to the oilam that it can be a big problem.
I personally am happy to have had men teachers since I think I learned a lot from them, but I think it’s better to at least make sure to only hire men teachers who are older and who have a good sense of boundaries. And there should also be a lot of women teachers so they can be the ones that girls talk to.
“Avi K.,
For one ,a Talmid from Bet Shemesh in his book on the parshiyot
His first name is Avishai”
Are you talking about Rav Avishai David?
“And I’m not really angry at my ex!”
Wow! That’s amazing!
LB- In your example above, I would agree with the moderator that it probably shouldn’t be so complicated to say “I’m so sorry, but I can’t take the picture for you.”. There may be many reasons why someone can’t take a picture, and I don’t think anyone will ask for an explanation.
When it comes to these types of issues, I think that people often think they are more complicated than they really are. One big issue that people often have is the “shaking hands with members of the opposite gender” issue. People always ask, “what do you do if someone of the opposite gender wants to shake hands with you? Won’t they be offended if you don’t?”
Personally, I have rarely found this to be a problem. I simply tell them that I can’t shake their hands for religious reasons and they are usually fine with that. The only time it is a problem is when I am with other religious family members who do shake hands with not-religious relatives who then may think that I am rude for not shaking hands with them. But I think if anyone is causing a chilul Hashem in that case, it is the ones who shake hands and make the ones who don’t look bad. If no one did, then no one think badly of it.
Lightbrite – there is a very common misconception regarding the halachic definition of the terms Kiddush Hashem and Chillul Hashem.
A lot of people think that anything that causes not-religious Jews to think well of Religious Jews or non-Jews to think well of Jews is by definition a Kiddush Hashem, and that anything that causes not-religious Jews to think badly of Religious Jews or non-Jews to think badly of Jews is be definition a Chillul Hashem.
However, that is not correct according to Halacha. If someone is doing the wrong thing, even if looks good to others, it is a Chillul Hashem. Likewise, if someone does the right thing, even if makes others look down on him, it is actually a Kiddush Hashem and not a Chilul Hashem.
Of course, if someone can do the right thing in a pleasant, polite way that doesn’t look bad, then that is the better choice and a bigger Kiddush Hashem. But if it is not possible, then the biggest Kiddush Hashem is to do the right thing anyhow.
There may be some cases where one is supposed to “compromise” for the sake of a Kiddush Hashem, but that is generally only in a case where you are not actually doing something forbidden. Maybe you are giving up on a chumra, for example, because it will offend someone. Or in some cases, you may be allowed to follow a leniency in order not to offend someone. Those are the types of things that can come up when dealing with not-Religious family members or others, and one should ask a sheilah in those cases.
“Joseph, unless you’ve person send on a cruise,you can’t declare something treif based on hearsay.”
I think he was just responding to what Meno and Ct Lawyter said. He originally asked the question without making any assumptions.
“Shmiras ynayim is a problem anywhere”
1. It is worse in some places than in others and a person is OBLIGATED according to halacha to avoid the worse places if he can.
2. There are places in the world (albeit not too many) where one can avoid shmiras ainayim issues (such as your home, the Beis Medrash, etc.). From what I understand of the halacha, one is not allowed to go ANYWHERE where there are shmiras ainayim issues unless he has to.
Granted, the exact definition of “unless he has to” is probably somewhat subjective, and I’m sure there are many people who need occasional vacations, but you should still think very carefully about your vacation options, and see if you can find an option that won’t present shmiras ainayim issues (or the minimal possible).
Lightbrite –
1. I don’t think there are too many jobs that present conflicts with practicing Yiddishkeit.
2. Even if there are some jobs like that, there are enough non-Jews and not-yet-observant and not-so- observant Jews (unfortunately) that there is no reason for someone who wants to be fully observant to feel that they must perform those particular jobs.
3. When all of Am Yisrael does Teshuva, B’Ezras Hashem soon, and there are no longer any not-Frum Jews in Israel then: A) We will probably still have enough goyim in Israel to perform those jobs, and B) Once everyone is Frum, there probably won’t be any conflicts anymore. The only reason there would be a conflict is if the employers and other workers aren’t religious and therefore create conflicts.
4. As far as I know, the Rabbanim don’t tell the chilonim not to go to the army. The main reason the army is a problem is because it’s a bad environment because the people running it and most of the people there aren’t Frum, so it’s a bad environment for Frum people. But the chilonim are already not Frum so it’s not a bad environment for them. Of course, we would love for them to become Frum, but as long as they are not, it’s not a problem for them to be in the army per se’.
5. The ideal of course is for all of Am Yisrael to do teshuva. I’m not sure what you are asking when you distinguish between the Chilonim and Klal Yisrael? The Chilonim are part of (actually the biggest part of) Am Yisrael! Who do you mean by “Klal Yisrael”? The Frum people?
So Meno, did you find what I was talking about yet?
“Pro Jews, you should read what lilmod ulelameid wrote again.”
Ditto. I was davka trying to be sensitive to your feelings, because I was concerned that you might be insulted by my writing +1 to RebYid, and I didn’t want you to think I was chas v’shalom putting you down by writing +1 to RebYid.
I’m so sorry you took what I wrote the wrong way, and I appreciate your telling me so. I was trying to tell you that I think it’s beautiful that you are so sensitive to Divrei Kedusha. I didn’t think there was anything offensive about that and I feel so bad that you were offended by it. I really meant what I wrote – I really do think it’s beautiful that you are so sensitive to Divrei Kedusha, and it reminded me of a story with a certain Gadol (was it R’ Akiva Eiger?) who got upset because he thought someone was being a leitz.
I hope you are moichel me for offending you. I really didn’t mean to. I’m still not sure why you are offended though, so if you could tell me, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
Also, never saw that amount of money.
Dunno. Never built a ferris wheel, so I have no idea what it costs.
The man who is sick should do what he is able to do. If he really can’t daven, then he is “annus” – someone who was unable to do the Mitzvah. But if he can at least daven the minimum that is required, he should do so. I would assume that in that situation, most men wouldn’t go to shul, but would daven 3 times a day. And they probably only do the basics and skip the parts that are not absolutely required. (how much they would skip would depend on how sick they are and what they feel they can do).
Before someone takes a job or enters a field that does not allow for davening, he should ask a sheilah as to whether or not he is permitted to take that job.
If being an athlete, pilot, or truck driver means not davening, I would guess that most Rabbanim would tell most people to find a different job.
For a doctor, I would imagine there would be leniencies since he is involved in pikuach nefesh (saving lives).
Ubiquitin – I don’t like pizza.
“Learn to burp the baby. So he/she won’t vomit!”
The “baby” is two years old now, bli ayin hora. I assume it’s not a problem anymore.
I never needed a break from being Frum. Of course when it comes to those areas of Yiddishkeit that I am still working on and not so strong in and don’t come as naturally to me, there will be times when I am tired either physically or emotionally and don’t have the strength to fight my nature.
For example, when I am exhausted or stressed, I may be less careful about not speaking about things that one is not allowed to talk about on Shabbos. But it’s not like I would make a conscious decision that this week I am taking a break from not talking about forbidden things on Shabbos. It just happens because I don’t have the energy to be as careful as useful.
Your situation is different because you are still “becoming bt”, so most things are not second – nature to yet. But this is a good reminder as to why you need to take things slowly, one step at a time. You don’t want to go too far too fast and then going backwards because you took on too much at once. You should take things on as you are ready for them so that you don’t end up feeling you need a “vacation” from being Frum.
There is a really good booklet, put out by Midreshet Rachayl, called, “How to get deeper into Torah without going off the deep end”. Have you ever seen it? I think you should read it if you have a chance.
BG- thank you. I appreciate your saying that. It does make me feel better. I still feel there are better and worse ways to do things. And I wish I could have done things in a better way. L’maaseh, I did ask mechila from most of these people at some point, and most of them are married anyhow so probably dont need my mechila.
But thank you.
ZD – I’m not sure that I agree with that. At least not in this context. It was a choice to start Chassidus. No one forced the Baal Shem Tov to start Chassidus. It was a choice to start the Mizrachi movement. They weren’t forced to.
The Nazis killed the Yidden in Europe and destroyed the Yeshivas there. We didn’t do that.
In any case, it was a sociological change and not a hashkafic change.
GAW- I would be interested in knowing how you define “Charedi’ism”. I don’t think you have said anything in this thread about your own definition.
I thought I saw in another thread that you wrote that you would consider R’ Hershel Schachter to be Chareidi. If so, I would have thought that you must be defining “Chareidi” the same way as I am. If you are not defining Chareidi the same as I am, how are you defining it (and how does it include R’ Schachter?)
“Where is the money going to?”
A lot of it probably goes to all the workers who presumably have to spend a lot of time on this and probably get paid well. And a lot of it probably goes for the materials that Ferris Wheels are made with (whatever they are). There are probably also a lot of things that you need to use when you are constructing something (besides the materials themselves), and they probably cost a lot.