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Joseph – actually that’s because we’re more aware of our emotions which is why we’re emotionally healthier and more sensitive. That’s also why we make better mothers.
Not saying that men aren’t as good as women and that there’s not a maaleh to being less emotional – women need men to balance them out – if everyone were emotional, the world would be a nuttier place than it already is. I’m just pointing out that it’s not a chisaron that women are more emotional.
I don’t know if you meant your comment in a negative way, but since it can be taken that way, I felt I had to add that.
He probably means guys who wear yarmulkas. Some people think that anyone who wears a yarmulka is chassidish.
RY -there are differences between the two which is the reason you brought that as an example.
btw, that’s generally the reason why people use this type of reasoning when trying to make a point, and it’s the reason why I generally think it’s not a good argument. If someone wants to prove that A) is okay, he will say, “B) is okay so A) must be okay” Obviously, he thinks there is a difference between A) and B), or he could have just said, “A) is okay because A) is okay.
clarification to my above post: I was answering the question literally and not necessarily in context. The reasons I wouldn’t want my seminary/Beis Medrash children doing the above are: 1. I wouldn’t want them online in the first place, and 2. I wouldn’t want them having online discussions with strangers.
I think the gender of the strangers would bother me way less than the fact that they are online and that they are having discussions with strangers. In terms of the gender, it would depend on many factors.
If you have any friends who are parents, you can see how kids from the same family can have very different personalities from the time they are babies. And while nurture starts from the time a kid is born, and even within the same family, the parents may unconsciously relate to different babies differently, it seems likely that some of the differences were there from birth.
I don’t know what percentage is nature and which is nurture, and I’m not sure that its possible for anyone to know. I’m sure that there have been many studies done, but I don’t put that much trust in studies. It’s nearly impossible to do a flawless study.
And I think this topic is one which it would be pretty impossible to prove one way or another. Part of the reason for this is that nature probably contributes greatly to nurture in very subtle ways that we are not even aware of. The two things are very connected and influence each other a lot, and it is hard to know which is influencing the other.
no.
Mazel Tov! Good idea- being involved in fewer machlokeses.
btw, I almost met you during the summer. Since you probably don’t know who I am, you probably don’t know what I mean.
Actually, I was attempting to help her to not have her light blocked.
“To us its that simple if the Torah prohibits you to look at us when we are very not tznius just don’t look. Its that simple how hard can it be”
Huh? Have you ever tried to not look at something? Let alone a lot of somebodies.
I’m a girl, and I understand why men have a hard time not noticing women who are dressed or acting untzniusly, and I have a much harder time understanding why women have a hard time not dressing untzniusly.
It is far easier to not buy a short skirt than it is to not see someone who is wearing one.
Even as a girl (who doesn’t have a yetzer hara to davka look), I would find it much easier to not buy the skirt than to not see someone wearing it!
peanut butter with chocolate – a.k.a. peanut butter cups. There is nothing better in the world! (the physical world, that is)
NO! A little bit of light cancels out a lot of darkness (I’m not sure if I got that quote precise, but it’s something like that).
Daddy’s Girl – STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP!
There you go – that’s 15 more stops!
And not because I don’t love you and want you to stay – simply because it is an addiction, and you may want to stop while you’re ahead.
“LU, I got it from Meno, but whatever.”
In that case, he probably got it from his not-so-Frum-cousin who may have gotten it from a goyish source, so it may be chukas hagoyim to use it…. but, whatever.
“Who says they’re women?”
Who says they’re men?
We all hear how dangerous the internet is and how we all should avoid it as it causes people to stray, and some get divorced.
Is the coffee room any better? It is a place where men and women shmooze and maybe the cause of lifnai evar.
Should men be excluded from this forum as it lacks tznius?
There was a typ in the op, so I edited it. You’re welcome!
For all of those who have a hard time doing something that shows consideration for the male portion of the population – why don’t you instead focus on how dressing unstzniusly hurts the female portion of the population – the wives of said men whose marriages you might be affecting?
Also, if you dress untzniusly, maybe other girls/women who look up to you will follow your example and you will cause them to suffer?
Or if you want to approach it from a positive angle, if you dress tzniusly, maybe other girls/women who look up to you will follow your example and you will be mezakeh them with more zchusim and more Olam Haba?
Maybe you can be the role model who shows others how it’s possible to look great but still be tznius!
Phil – personally, I think that if you have a specific issue with a specific thing that a poster wrote, you should find a way to let them know – politely and also privately, if possible. That’s just my opinion.
Ubiquitin – beautiful! I agree with you. I know people who think that it is a given that you have to tell your children that you agree with all of the school rules. I have never agreed with that approach (although since I’m not a parent yet, I can’t say for sure).
I do think it’s a problem for a parent to make fun of or be overly-critical of the school (or even to state disagreement with the school too often). Someone once told me that she thinks that’s the reason that her kids ended up at-risk or OTD.
But at the same time, I don’t think that you should pretend that you agree with every school policy if you don’t. I think that’s both dishonest and poor chinuch. Your kids should know that they and you are allowed to think and to have different opinions than the school, as long as you make it clear that the school has a right to make these rules and they are obligated to follow them despite their disagreement (as long as following them doesn’t involve breaking halacha).
I think that’s the best chinuch you can give your child- to learn that others aren’t perfect but you still need to respect them, and to learn that there’s nothing wrong with having an opinion.
Also, it’s important for them to understand the difference between a school rule and halacha (especially when it comes to tznius). A school rule is not halacha and you are allowed to disagree with it even though you have to follow it.
Regarding your example with your Rebbe, I tend to agree with WTP. I can’t really say if your father was right or not since it would depend on what exactly you said to your Rebbe and what he said to you and how hurt you were, etc. On the one hand, you needed validation, but on the other hand, it’s important that you realize that you can’t be chutzpadik.
You make an interesting point about parents being in a better position to give over nuances. I never thought about that before, but what you wrote makes sense.
And it would make sense for the parents to see the school as their partner in being mechanech their child in the sense that if they have an issue with something the school does, their job should simply be to fill in the gap as opposed to knocking the school.MrFestaguy &Iacisrmma – I never heard of this job before, but the way that LB described it, I thought it sounded like it involves flying banners that would contain things that are problematic for a Frum Jew most of the time. I don’t know how often the example she gave is likely to occur, but I thought that most of the time there would be other problems.
Again, I don’t know exactly what it’s about, so maybe I’m wrong, but I thought it would be similar to having a job that involves printing advertisements in a goyish magazine. And yes, I don’t think that a Frum Jew should take a job that involves printing advertisements in a goyish magazine. I thought that these banners were advertisements or something similar.
But if I’m wrong, I apologize.
As for the other examples the two of you gave, these things could be a problem there too, and I wouldn’t assume that it’s okay. I would find out how often it is likely to occur and then ask a sheilah about whether or not I should take the job as well as what I should do in such a situation.
DG – thanks so much!! Yum!!!!
spoken like a true seminary graduate!
I also want to add that I think that if the parents really don’t agree with a school policy but pretend that they do, then they are being dishonest and giving the kid a contradictory message (since they are saying one thing but thinking another), and that is much more likely to confuse the kid than if the parents and school have different opinions.
That is my real issue with such a policy. They don’t necessarily have to voice their disagreement -(that would be my approach, but I could hear why some would disagree)- but they shouldn’t lie and say they agree when they don’t.
I think it’s much better to be open.
RY – that’s what happens when you leave knives around! We warned you, didn’t we?!
MAZEL TOV!!!!!
As for me, I do want. Also, I plan to not have internet in my house when I’m married, so that should make it easier.
As for you, you were doing pretty good for a while – you were my inspiration that it’s possible!!! Don’t crack down on me now!
I thought you worked in computers?
What do you mean by “I once flew a plane?” Are you really a pilot or do you mean that you flew on on a plane or that you flew a paper plane?
btw, I checked my above post, and I didn’t write that you CAN’T be a Shomer Shabbos pilot. I wrote that someone told me that it’s hard.
Amen!
Hashem, please bless all Yidden with an emesdik, truly good, sweet year! A bright, zestful beginning, Yeshuos for all! and especially Little Froggie from the Coffee Room! ונרננה ונשמחה בכל ימינו
Mod 100- are you still up?!! It’s late!!! Or did another Mod wake up early?
Sorry, but I’m not a baki in Tehillim or in all the possible mefarshim on that Possuk as well as how the contemporary Gedolim and Manhigim say that it should be applied today. I certainly don’t know how you are interpreting it, so would you mind clarifying for me?
My impression is that most Rabbanim and mechanchim say that one is supposed to grow slowly and take small steps. The main thing is that you are going in the right direction.
As such, it wouldn’t make sense to say that you are now creating a situation in which these people are sinning b’maized as opposed to before when they did not know better. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing and taking small steps.
By the way, you can also ask the same question about your own children. Since most people do lots of aveiros and are oiver on many halachos, isn’t it better to make sure not to educate your children so that they will be tinok shenishba?
The reason why it’s not (even though it might seem like it is) is because you are doing someone the biggest favor when you teach them about Yiddishkeit! In one of Rav Matisyahu Salomon’s sefarim, he raises the question: “Why should we do kiruv?” He brings several possible answers which he rejects. I believe he mentions the fact that they are tinok shenishba, so the reason for teaching them can’t be that they are obligated in the Mitzvos.
The answer that he ends up with is that teaching someone about Torah and Mitzvos is the biggest favor you can do for them.
WTP – I like that!
“What is the reason to get married and have a spouse?”
To get over my CR addiction.
Joseph – I agree with 1,2 & 4, but 3 needs explanation: What kind of a rod? A real one, a verbal one or a potch? And how often are you talking about?
As for 5 – I’m not even going there……
Oh… thanks so much for answering, Mod 100!
lol… I actually had thought that LF wasn’t being accurate in his grammar and had really meant the “as per CR rules and regulations” to refer to the fact that he usually doesn’t use 2 names at one time.
And I figured that he must have broken the rules that one time (although, I was surprised, because it doesn’t seem like his type – but I figured there must have been exceptional circumstances)
My comment was meant as a weak attempt at humor.
So I guess you an apology and two brachos, LF!! What do you want?
good to know about that rule though in case I ever need it.
Don’t worry – I know you said that it’s not frequent, so I won’t try to overuse it, if I ever even use it at all.
I’m assuming you need Mod permission for that, in any event.
Welcome Daddysgirl!!!!
Does it count as though I came? Is there any chocolate or only coffee?
“As far as comparing. Allow me to just quote the Talmud and should answer all:
אין אפוטרופוס לעריות”
Gaon +1!
Iacisrmma & Chabadgal –
1. he was actually referring to a very sharp knife. Yeah, I know I didn’t make that clear – I was trying to make some kind of point.
2. I think the rule that dull knives are more dangerous is only for adults.3. Why is there a chiyuv to use knives on Shabbos? Can’t you just rip the Challah with your hands (as long as your wife doesn’t object)?
” (only in one instance, where I didn’t want to associate with my comment / question (as per CR rules and regulations).”
So according to CR rules and regulations, you are allowed to use 2 names at the same time if it’s because you don’t want to associate with your comment (whatever that means)?
You’re not talking about me, are you? I don’t know think I even know who you are.
It doesn’t sound like a job for an ehrliche Yid in the first place, precisely because of the type of problem you mentioned. And I’m sure there are many other problematic banners that people might want you to fly.
I also wonder if it’s even possible for a Shomer Shabbos Yid to have such a job. I think someone told me that it would be hard to find a job as a Shomer Shabbos pilot. I wonder if this would be the same.
Bottom line: find another job!
To all of my fellow Posters:
Please let me know if I have offended you in any way so that I can have the opportunity to ask mechila.
If you are not comfortable doing so, please accept my apologies and please try to find it in your heart to be moichel me. I am sure that I did not mean to hurt your feelings (if I did do so)
Unlike Joseph, I am not a tzadik (es) and can’t promise to be moichel anyone who hurt me if they don’t make a point of apologizing, although I will try to do so.
Coffee Addict – I apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way. I think I may have written something that upset you when I first joined the CR about a year ago. I don’t remember my exact words, but I do know that since then, I became aware of certain halachos regarding tochacha that I was not aware of at the time, so it’s very possible that I was nechshol in how I phrased things.
If so, I sincerely apologize and I hope you are moichel me.
With best wishes for a Kesiva v’Chasima Tova!
PS: please let me know if you see this.
” it is very easy to misunderstand the exact meaning. In fact, it is almost impossible not to, since there is no such thing as a precise translation.”
“That makes no sense. If that was even remotely true there would be no English translations. They would all be nichshol everyone who reads them. Did the gedolim miss that point when endorsing these volumes? Or was the point to say people who study from the English versions are inferior because they are not REALLY understanding Torah.”
Translations are b’dieved and a horaas sha’ah. If you read the haskamos to halacha sefarim, they are generally written with a lot of reservations. Many halacha sefarim start off by warning the readers not to posken from them, and to look up the sources in the original.
There is nothing wrong with reading a translation or a concise halacha sefer if you understand what its purpose is and is not. I am not familiar with the Sefer you quoted, but it sounds to me as though it is just meant to make people aware of the general halachos.
The people who write these sefarim understand that not everyone will be able to learn the halachos in depth for whatever reason (and there can be many reasons for that), so they want to make sure that people are at least aware of the general principles, so that most of the time they won’t be “nechshol” and so that they will know when to ask.
Again, if you think that there is a problem here, I think it’s a good idea for you to ask a sheilah about it. There are many reasons why I think that is not the case – I mentioned some. However, many of them are things that it is not possible for me to discuss in this forum.
But please keep in mind, as you yourself have mentioned in the past – there are all kinds of Rabbanim in the world, so make sure that you ask the right one. When it comes to Hilchos Loshon Hara, you really need to make sure that you ask someone who is a baki in this particular area and has lots of experience asking sheilahs of this sort.
It is not merely a matter of being a Talmid Chacham and knowing the halachos thoroughly – it also takes a lot of perception and understanding of people. And again, I think that the CCHF can direct you in this matter. (and no, I don’t work for them).
DY – thank you for bringing and explaining the relevant sources!
“Personally, I do not think that I would have made that mistake” can give the impression of arrogance and I don’t think any person should be so confident that they don’t make errors even where they least expect it.”
I apologize if you took my words that way – I hesitated before including them, but felt that it was important in order not to imply anything negative about the author of the book quoted. My point was not that I am incapable of misunderstanding something.
My point was that in this case, I had not understood the words that way when you first quoted it, even before I looked it up (although I did make sure to look it up before commenting). I felt it was important to point that out, so that no one would think that I was implying that the book was written in such a way that it can be easily misunderstood.
I was trying my hardest to phrase things in such a way that they would neither be offensive to you nor imply anything negative about the authors of the book quoted.
I do agree that we are all human and that anyone can misunderstand something no matter how well it’s written. That was actually the point that I was trying to make.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.
DY: “LU, I think the two threads are very similar, and that listing a bunch of posters in a positive way (want to meet, praise, etc.) is likely to cause hurt feelings.”
DY, I hear your point on that. I happen to think that there is a difference between the two threads, although I can see why someone might disagree.
But that wasn’t my main point, and that’s not why I was asking for an apology. I hear your “tzad” although I am not sure if I agree. My point was that I explained why I did not do what you and Ubiquitin accused me of doing, and why under the circumstances, I felt that it was necessary to act as a did (davka in order to prevent people from being hurt).
SYAG – Personally, I don’t see a problem with the translation. But if you do, you might want to call the CCHF and discuss it with them. They are very approachable and I am sure they would be happy to discuss it with you.
When I had an issue with a thread in the CR that contained LH, I called them up and asked them to refer me to a Poseik to ask about it. The Poseik I spoke to was extremely helpful and he had me read through the posts on the thread , and he told me which ones were L’H and which weren’t (both mine and the other person’s). If you are really concerned that there is LH on the thread, you might want to do the same.
“I maintain my objection to lists of posters based on your original point that being left out hurts.”
DY, that wasn’t SYAG’s point – that was yours and Ubiquitin’s point.
DY & Ubiquitin – I ‘m still waiting for you to read my post #1353914 and to apologize for inadvertently falsely accusing me of something that I didn’t do.
Thank you!