Lilmod Ulelamaid

Don’t sit in his seat.

LB – now I see the post that you are referring to. But I hadn’t seen it before! Either I missed it, or the mods had deleted it and then put it back to provide context for your post (they have been known to do that in the past).

I thought you meant that something I said was LH and I was trying to figure out why. I thought maybe you meant because I was prying too much, but I thought it was a bit extreme to consider that LH (especially since the only people it concerns are the moderators who can choose what to allow through, and Randomex, who can choose if he wishes to respond or not).

When I said the benefit is a possibility, I meant that it’s a possibility in the sense that you don’t know if you personally would necessarily get the flu or polio, etc if you didn’t take the vaccination. Of course, that reasoning doesn’t apply so well to the chicken pox but it definitely applies to the flu (which is what I had mainly been talking about) and to most other things.

And I wasn’t trying to imply in any way that one shouldn’t take the polio vaccine. I was just making very theoretical comments about the reasoning involved in these decisions. My comments were meant purely academically.

Additionally, I hadn’t even been thinking of polio at all – I was thinking of the more recent vaccinations, the ones that were not around yet when I was a kid, and are for things that are either less serious or less wide-spread (such as flu or chicken pox). I had assumed that people who are anti-vaccination are against the more recent ones (such as flu and chicken pox) whose necessity, benefit, and possible risks might not be as clear-cut yet. Are they against all vaccinations including polio and whatever the standard ones are that we all got as kids (those of us born in the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s)?

chicken

iceberg

DY: “LU, throw it out as soon as you get to a trash can.”

The point is that there are tekufas when I am constantly sneezing and blowing my nose, and I need to have my bag on me all the time to throw the tissues out in and I need to carry it around with me. So it’s not so practical to talk about throwing it out as soon as I get to a garbage can:

1. Then I won’t have my bag anymore.

2. It’s not necessarily practical to look for a garbage can every time I get up.

Really, what I need is that everyone whose house I am ever in and every building that I am ever in should have a garbage can every few feet and next to every chair or couch in the house or building.

Or they should just start making girls’ clothes with pockets.

Futurepotus – +1!

blubluh: “LU: I think the +1 shows agreement or appreciation.”

I know that; I just wasn’t sure why.

Maybe the 1 is referring to the person who is writing +1 and he is saying that there is an additional person who agrees with whatever the original person wrote? According to what you wrote about FB that would make sense.

If that is the case, I guess it doesn’t make too much sense when I write + 1,000! oh, well.

antonym

triplet

Hey you stole my idea 🙂

Good Shabbos and Gut Chodesh to you and to everyone else in the CR!!! 🙂

lesschumras – because it’s most of the year. Probably allergies most of the time and not a cold though, but I don’t always know how to tell the difference. I call it it a cold when it’s winter and allergies if it’s spring or summer. Anyhow, I’m not being confined to my house every time I have a cold!!!

And btw, I don’t shake people’s hands, cold or no cold.

I might be wrong, but I thought that there might be a machlokes on rice cakes.

When you speak to a Rav, you are supposed to use third person. I’ve never been a Yeshiva Bochur though, so I don’t know what Yeshiva Bochurim do.

Actually, I’m not even sure what most non-Yeshiva Bochurim do.

LB – lol.

Where does this whole +1 thing come from? I never heard of it before the CR. What does it mean exactly?

LB – It occurred to me after I wrote it that most people probably have no problem holding on to hangers for 6 years. My problem is that I don’t think I ever lived in the same place for 6 years and hangers are a hard thing to move around with you!

JA – in case you miss my previous post, please let me know if you feel comfortable asking your mechaneches to speak to Chasy Silverstein about arranging a mentor for you? Thanks.

I think it’s a PC. Someone told me about adblocker. You get it online, it’s free and it’s not too hard to figure out how to download. I did it myself, and I’m not very technological. I don’t know why everyone wouldn’t get it.

It’s the only filter I have right now. I should get something else, but I haven’t figured out yet what or how. This was great because it was free and easy and because I didn’t have to worry that it might block something that I don’t want blocked. Also, ads are the biggest problem and the main thing I would want blocked anyhow. But it’s not really enough.

“He was quoting himself.”

I don’t see what difference that makes.

DY: “but the bottom line is that he is NOT saying it’s okay to violate Hashem’s commands for your own needs. He’s just not realizing that that’s what it sounds like.”

I’m not completely convinced. Again, he wasn’t just talking about the molesting case. He gave other examples. And this topic has also come up in the past, and he implied the same thing.

Maybe he really thinks that according to halacha, it is always mutar to speak badly online about people who were oiver on bein adam l’chaveiro because there could be some benefit to it. Which is not the same as saying that one doesn’t have to follow halacha, but it is also pretty bad. There are many, many, conditions necessary before you run to ruin peoples’ reputations. And he very clearly stated that you don’t have to ask a sheilah.

Maybe he was only talking about cases in which it’s obvious that it’s the right thing to do. But then he should say so. And it’s still a bit shvach because you always have to find out exactly what you are allowed to say. And you certainly should ask before you say something online.

I also still feel that an apology to Yekke2 might be necessary.

You are probably right that he didn’t completely realize what he was saying. I think that happens a lot in the CR. But I still feel a retraction is necessary.

I’m not sure to what extent one can say that someone is not responsible for their words if they don’t understand what their words mean. I have been wondering a lot about that since I’m in the CR. There is definitely some room to be “dan l’kaf zchus” that people don’t understand what they are saying and perhaps can’t always be held responsible, but it still seems to me that they have a responsibility to retract once it has been explained.

Bottom line – I don’t know what can and can’t be expected of anyone else. But I definitely think my responsibility is to respond to certain types of comments regardless.

I do think that it’s great that you are so “dan l’kaf zchus”. Maybe I need to work on that. And it does seem like ZD is a very nice person, so it is probably true that he doesn’t really mean what he is saying.

ZD – I apologize if I came acros too harshly. You probably really didn’t realize what your words meant, and I apologize for not being dan l’kaf zchus enough. At the same time, I did feel a need to stand up for both the Torah and Yekke2 when I felt they were being attacked. But I apologize if it was too strong.

LB, sorry it passed already without my being apologized to, and I already said the tefilas zaka.

What’s a MAC?

As someone who has really bad allergies in the spring/summer and is prone to bad colds in the winter – if you sneeze every few seconds, it is impossible to throw the tissue in the garbage each time.

And women’s clothes are usually not made with pockets, for some odd reason. And no, I don’t leave tissues on the table, but I do have a hard time trying to figure out what to do with them, and I haven’t come up with a really good solution yet.

I try to carry a plastic bag around to put them in, but I am always concerned about muktzah issues on Shabbos Sometiems, I try to keep the tissue box in the same bag, but if I take it out to get a tissue, then I have a problem. So sometimes, I try to put one or two clean tissues in the bag, but the problem is that if they are in the same bag as the dirty tissues they aren’t really useable, so they are really garbage too, so I don’t know if it helps.

DY, it’s really nice of you to be “dan l’kaf zchus” but I don’t know. He still continued with his false claims against Yekke2 after that. And if that was his point and he really wants to take back his original statement, I think he should make it clearer.

And he still said this AFTER the post you quoted:

A cry against Chillul Hashem in the CR

He is very clearly calling it an aveirah (yet still saying that one should do it).

Additionally, as you yourself pointed out previously, the fact that the guy is “a known molester” does not mean that a sheilah does not need to be asked. You have to know what you are allowed to say and to whom. It is also not clear what the definition of “known molester” is here. In the original context we were talking about people who were rumored to be molesters but were not in fact molesters. And again, molesters was just one example he gave.

Also, the context of the discussion was about posting information about people online who reportedly were oiver on aveiros (molesting was just one example) without asking a sheilah, and just assuming that it is always a good thing to do (if it was an aveira bein adam l’chaveiro) because someone might possibly be helped by it.

That is a terrible thing to say!!! You can really be ruining peoples’ lives. Sometimes, there are things that must be said, but many times it is absolutely forbidden to say something! In order to be allowed, there are many factors that must be present. And I highly doubt that anyone would say it’s okay to post online anyone who has cheated on their taxes!!!! (which was one example he gave).

So if ZD really wants to take back what he said, he would have to make it clear that he did not mean that one can publicly denounce anyone without first clarifying the halacha. (how one clarifies the halacha is another subject and we can start a new thread on that).

“I am not moichel”

I guess we are even then, because there are many things that I am not moichel you for.

LB -sorry, but you are missing the point here. ZD was not the one having his buttons pushed. A false accusation was made against Yekke2 and he had to be defended.

“I don’t get this thread. I think it’s staging a situation so you can say that Hey, he did say not to listen to halacha.”

No one staged a situation besides ZD. He made up the situation in a previous thread as part of a discussion about listening to halacha in order to show that there are situations in which he doesn’t think that one should listen to halacha.

That statement of his was kefira (whether or not it was intentional) and therefore Yekke2 felt it necessary to say something in order to stand up for Hashem and the Torah’s honor. Hashem and the Torah had been debased by the statement that a person can know better than what Hashem says in the Torah. That is what the discussion is about.

I think that some of us (such as DY and myself) were hoping that ZD would say, “no, of course that is not what I meant at all” and would take back his statement and explain what he meant. We gave him several opportunities to do so.

I am still hoping that that will happen eventually. But as long as attacks are made on either the Torah or other posters, it is necessary to defend them.

LB – thank you so much for getting the point and explaining it so well. I had decided not to respond to SYAG since I have learned during my time in the CR that it is not kidai to “feed the trolls” and Chazal say that one should not say something to someone who won’t listen.

But then I got nervous that JA might end up getting the wrong message and losing the message that I had put so much effort into getting across, and it occurred to me that in a way I was being selfish by focusing on the schar I was getting and not thinking about the effect on JA. But I still wasn’t sure how to respond in a way that would get the point across.

Thank you for doing it so well.

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