Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Dovrosenbaum: I don’t think sisterhoods or women’s leagues exist in the 21st century, at least not in Frum communities. I have never heard of one.
There is N’shei but they don’t usually do much except get together once in a while in order to have a social life because people need a break and a social life. There is nothing wrong with that, but you can get together to learn for the same price.
Kapusta – “Actually, speaking of Rav Chaim, I think the Rebbitzin a”h worked as a bookkeeper and enjoyed math and on walks (on Shabbos?), Rav Chaim would discuss things which included math.”
Kapusta, that is correct, and according to her biography, there was a particular Tosfos which involved math which he used to discuss with her.
Additionally, she spent several hours learning every day.
It is a Mitzvah for girls to learn if they can and even a chiyuv to learn certain (a lot of) things. According to Rav Avigdor Miller, the difference between men and women is that she has more excuses not to learn. But she should certainly learn as much as she can, and it is definitely praiseworthy.
dovrosenbaum:If she can’t learn because she has to take care of the kids or cook, that is one thing, but it is not a Mitzvah to davka come up with other things to do in order to avoid learning.
5. Is it something that is usually used for fun/recreation?
“You have no idea what poor is! I had to leave my house and live with my family because I couldn’t afford the rent.”
been there, done that.
How can you say that I don’t know what poor is? You don’t even know me!
JF2 -It’s in the Torah Shebichtav, so they do know it.
Also, people don’t buy Chevron in order to live there – they buy an apartment that is located in Chevron, but they don’t buy Chevron itself. Chevron itself belongs to all of Am Yisrael. The government is just our agent (and some would claim they aren’t even that). That’s why when Jews have been kicked out of places like Gush Katif, some refused to go at first – if they didn’t own it, it would have been gezel to refuse to leave. But they did own it, because Eretz Yisrael belongs to all of Am Yisrael – given to us by Hashem, and no government can change that fact even if they think they can.
The only other way you use Chevron is by going to Mearas Hamachpeila or burying your dead there.
So maybe I am right – Avraham Avinu had to buy Mearas Hamachpeila in order to use Chevron – i.e. to bury his dead in Mearas Hamachpeila- but we don’t pay to use Chevron – by visiting Meoras Hamachpeila (which is what most people do in Chevron)
Walking around IS using it.
“Correct, you do not need to pay to walk around but people do buy it to use it. Ah, I see, you were answering that people don’t NEED to buy it top use it. Oh boy, so much gets lost in the written word.”
Now I really lost you – what’s the difference between buying it to use it and needing to buy it to use it?
A non-Yeshivish friend of mine once quoted that story to me to “prove” that in the Yeshivish world, girls’ learning is discouraged. Actually, I think that the story proves the opposite: My impression was that these girls were learning in a Bais Yaakov Seminary where apparently girls learning is considered super-important, and that’s why Rav Shach felt it was necessary to remind them of other priorities.
In terms of the Rav Shach story, the way I heard it was that they came to him with a question about the Ramban, which is not an appropriate thing to come to a Gadol Hador about – you can ask your teacher, not Rav Shach!
He then served them some cake, asked them if they liked it, and asked them if they know how to make it.
If you tell over the story a certain way, it can sound like he was being very charif, and as JF2 pointed out, that is not usually the best way to deal with people.
However, it is possible to tell over the story in such a way that you stress the fact that he spoke in an adin fashion, and he was just trying to remind them that as important as it is to learn Ramban, it is also important to know how to make cake, and even though right now they are in school and being made to feel like their only purpose in life is to learn Ramban, they have to remember, that one day, there will be more important things for them to know.
When girls are in school, they are made to feel like the only thing that matters is knowing Ramban, so perhaps he wanted to give them some perspective.
I think this is a story that has been seriously taken out of context. The problem with stories is that the message is in the telling, and the telling tells you more about the person telling the story than the person whom it is about.
Even if the facts are exactly the same, the way a story is told can give it a very different meaning. And even the facts are usually completely twisted. For example, I heard it was some kind of cake and it was Rav Shach.
Actually, Rav Chaim Kanievsky Shlita doesn’t even speak to girls – he won’t even read a girl’s handwriting. Only on rare exceptional occasions has he spoken to girls, and that was only with his wife’s request.
Therefore, I don’t think the story has any truth to it.
Who is he? Is he Rav Nosson Tzvi Zatsal’s brother?
So Sparky, 1. Is it alive?
That doesn’t mean you are wrong, that just led me away from guessing property. It was a great choice.
Thanks!! I probably shouldn’t have added those words, but I don’t think it “possuls” things. If you really feel it possuls things, we can just say that the answer should have been Mearos Hamachpeila, in which case Picture Perfect is still the winner, but it means that he/she got it on the 20th question so he is really the winner!
You did a great job too, and came very close!
“Correct, my post got lost, I was saying that the answer is yes, people still buy property in Chevron, thereby owning land there.”
As I pointed out before, there is a difference between “land in Chevron” and the city of Chevron. I don’t have to pay money to walk around Chevron.
29- “That last post was written a few posts ago.”
I had been referring to the fact that this post:
“You could argue that Chevron is not Meoros HaMachpila so we never bought it. I wrote that because I was thinking of the fact that I once heard someone say that there are 3 places that are clearly ours and those 3 places are davka places that the Arabs claim are not ours.
One of those places was Meoras Hamachpeila. It is clearly ours because it says in the Torah that Avraham Avinu paid for it.
Again, that is Meoras Hamachpeila, not Chevron, but I was thinking of the fact that Chevron is contested territory and that’s the proof that it is ours.
In any case, this is a “yes” or “no” game, so any additional information is just an extra clue. The correct answer was still “no” because we are not buying it now.”
was written before I saw this: Yes, but we weren’t talking about maaras hamachpeila…
All I was trying to say was that I answered your question before I saw it!
Sparkly – I asked if it’s living, not if you can see it.
So, 1. Can you see it?
Whoops! Correction – I meant: 1. Is it alive?
29 – I pointed out that I may have been wrong for saying, “but it was bought once” (although I’m not 100% sure that I’m wrong, because our claim to Chevron may be based on our buying MH).
But even if I’m wrong, it’s irrelevant because in any case, the answer to the question, “Do people buy it?” was no, and that is what I said!
Joseph: “I specifically made clear it isn’t the fact that they violate Torah laws, that they are aware are Torah prohibitions, that makes them apikorsum. Many people, out of weakness or otherwise, regularly violate Torah laws. They are not apikorsum as they do not deny the Torah prohibition’s binding nature, even when they’re violating it.
What makes them apikorsum is the fact that they know something is a Torah law and, yet, they declare that they reject the applicability of said Torah law. Even if they never violate said Torah law they are, nevertheless, apikorsum.”
Well-said!!
Sparkly – I asked if it’s living, not if you can see it.
So, 1. Can you see it?
JF2- “Joseph, you are being deliberately obtuse”
That was uncalled for! And inaccurate. I think that Joseph was actually saying the same thing as me but in different words.
JF- “(Too many commenters here have been saying things like “well, we can’t judge them, and they may be tinok shenishba, but nevertheless, they’re apikorsim!” which seems very backwards to me– I don’t see how a person could be both)”
Rav Moshe Feinstein in Igros Moshe says that you can be both. I don’t have a sefer on me now, but you can look it up. I think it’s in a Tshuva about saying Amen to the bracha of someone conservative or reform.
The reason why you have trouble seeing how someone can be an apikorus and a tinok shenishba is the same reason that you think it is better to be reform or conservative than unaffiliated.
The reason for both of these things is that you don’t realize that having Emuna is a Mitzva, and lack of Emuna is an Aveira. So while it’s true that it’s better to keep some Mitzvos than not to keep any, it is better to keep the Mitzvos of having the right Emuna than to disregard that Mitzva and keep others.
Also, you can keep the Mitzvos that C and R people keep without being c or r. That is what people in Israel do.
This also explains how it’s possible to be a tinok shenishba and an apikorus at the same time. This is because an apikorus is someone who is “oveir” on a particular Mitzvah (the Mitzvos of having Emuna). Just like someone can be a Tinok Shenishba and a Mechalel Shabbos at the same time, he can be a Tinok Shenishba and an apikorus at the same time.
Sparkly – I don’t know if you saw – I asked you if it’s living
29 – I posted my last post before I saw yours…
You could argue that Chevron is not Meoros HaMachpila so we never bought it. I wrote that because I was thinking of the fact that I once heard someone say that there are 3 places that are clearly ours and those 3 places are davka places that the Arabs claim are not ours.
One of those places was Meoras Hamachpeila. It is clearly ours because it says in the Torah that Avraham Avinu paid for it.
Again, that is Meoras Hamachpeila, not Chevron, but I was thinking of the fact that Chevron is contested territory and that’s the proof that it is ours.
In any case, this is a “yes” or “no” game, so any additional information is just an extra clue. The correct answer was still “no” because we are not buying it now.
29- We bought Meoros Hamachpeila when Avraham Avinu paid Ephron Hachiti. Now we are not buying it anymore.
Most OTD people are NOT atheist. I have worked with many young people who were at-risk or off-the-derech. Most Jews nowadays do not stop being Frum for theological reasons. They usually stop being Frum for emotional/psychological reasons. Many of them want to be Frum, and want to resolve their issues so that they can go back to being Frum. Two different girls who were off the Derech told me that they really wanted to go back to being Frum one day, but they felt that they had to work out their issues first. One of them did go back to being Frum (I am not in touch with the other one so I don’t know).
I know a social worker who worked with young people who were at-risk or Off the Derech. The social worker herself was not Frum (she was Conservative), but she got many of these people to return to Frumkeit. Basically, she helped them with their emotional issues, and once those were resolved, they returned to Yiddishkeit.
The reason for their going off the derech was obviously because of their emotional issues. That’s why as soon as those were taken care of, they came back.
1. Is it living?
Zahavas dad – the Jewish concept of Emunah is different than the goyish one. They believe that faith runs counter to logic as in “having a leap of faith.” Many converts say that when they asked questions to their priests, they were not given answers, and they were just told to have faith.
Emunah is connected to the word “Emes”. Emunah means “knowing”, not just believing. Emunah is based on logic, not a suspension of logic.
Regarding the atheists, as you wrote: We have Faith not logic. You have to prove a positive, not a negative. “Prove to me I wont win the Lottery tommorrow” . You cant prove such a thing. However I can prove to you that I won the lottery, if I show you a winning lottery ticket
That is EXACTLY my point. Since you can’t prove a negative, the atheist can’t prove that G-d doesn’t exist, and therefore he can’t say that he knows for sure that G-d doesn’t exist.
On the other hand, we can say that we know that G-d exists since it is a positive, and as you wrote, one can prove a positive.
Yeah!!! We finally have a winner!!!! Yasher Koach to Picture Perfect!!!
And you were only on question 22, so that’s not bad!!
And I think that I chose a hard one (I was trying to)
“”I don’t think there is any doubt that an employer is ??? ?? ??.”
Really?
Who do you work for?”
I don’t know whether or not “libo gas ba” applies to every employer, but a person definitely has to take more precautions with something that is a regular situation as opposed to a one-time thing. This is partly because you have a different relationship with them, whether or not it falls into the category of “libo gas ba”.
“LU -“I prefer to avoid it, so I would rather go a roundabout way and pay a bit more.”
Well, of course, but not e/o can afford it like you!!!”
Actually, I’m one of the poorest people around!! It only comes out to app. $34 more and if someone can pay for an airplane ticket and a bus, they can also usually find the extra $34. It generally comes down to a matter of priorities. Someone who can’t pay the extra $34 probably wouldn’t be able to pay for the ticket and the $12 for the bus either, so they wouldn’t be doing this in the first place.
You can also do what I did which was to go from JFK in NY. I took the Frum Lakewood bus to Brooklyn which is app. $16 (I forgot the exact amount) and then a Frum car service to JFK. There are also goyish car services which are cheaper. I forget the amounts offhand – I think the goyish one was $25 or $30 and the Frum one was $50. I can try to find out for you and get you the numbers as well if you are interested. Either way, it’s much cheaper than a car service to Newark.
The total shouldn’t be more than app. $46. And it’s easier to get flights from JFK anyhow.
If you can’t afford to do it that way,the NJ transit isn’t terrible if you’re used to goyish transportation. I prefer to avoid it, so I would rather go a roundabout way and pay a bit more. For me, I feel it’s an issue of “yesh derech achrita”. One should always avoid an inappropriate atmosphere if possible. And I don’t mind going through Brooklyn and paying a bit more. The busride is very comfortable and relaxing.
Zahavasdad – it has to do with logic. Since it’s impossible to prove that G-d doesn’t exist, some say that it’s impossible for someone to “know 100%” that G-d doesn’t exist (kaviyachol).
Since G-d does exist, it’s impossible for someone to “know” that he doesn’t.
“She’s on a computer, let her do a search for Orthodox Rabbi in her town.
It’s not that difficult, no matter what you say!”
Terrible things have happened to people who did just that! Definitely not advisable!
Also, not all Rabbanim are so accessible – you have to know which ones are and at what hours. Some Rabbanim have their wives screen their calls and that can be awkward and annoying. Not all Rabbanim are reliable. Some Rabbanim are reliable for straight halacha questions but not issues involving hashkafa. Some Rabbanim are not the personable type. Some Rabbanim are impatient and don’t have time or patience to listen to a teenager’s stories. You can’t just pick up the phone and call a Rav – you have to know who to call.
Tachlis – Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky is a Gadol and very accessible and patient, and his number can be found on-line. He is reachable both at home and in his Yeshiva.
Health: “She’s on a computer, let her do a search for Orthodox Rabbi in her town.”
That is NOT a good way to look for a Rav!!!
On the other hand, if you have to take a car service within Lakewood anyhow, you might want to consider taking a car service from Newark.
“thanks so much. how would that compare to nj transit in regard to price?”
Were you asking me? It’s hard to tell which posts are in response to which.
I think NJ Transit is around $12.50, but I’m not 100% sure. It’s definitely much cheaper than a car service. The problem with NJ Transit is that if you are not used to taking goyish transportation, it can be very uncomfortable. I took NJ Transit to Newark once and there were people who were using nibul peh, and a guy who started up with me and made me very nervous. I think it’s not usually so bad though, especially if you are used to goyish transportation. So if you can’t afford a car service, definitely take the bus.
There are also Frum car services from Newark to Lakewood. I think it’s around $90, but I’m not sure.
For within Lakewood, there is an excellent Frum Car Service called Lakeway. It is is usually $8-12 depending where you are going. They also do long-distance, so they probably do Newark-Lakewood as well.
There are also Frum car services from Newark to Lakewood. I think it’s around $90, but I’m not sure.
Health – you are right in theory, but l’maaseh, it’s not always so easy to know how to find someone especially for girls.
Apushatayid, they might not be the best people to ask. Chances are that they are not since she didn’t ask them.
apushatayid: How did you know that? That joke was made up by a student of mine years ago.
Did you figure out the answer or have you heard the joke before?
We still don’t have the answer. Any guesses? Who’s going to get it?
You wouldn’t be paying for the city, only the rights to the specific piece of land. You can walk around Yerushalayim for free.
JF2: Our Torah is not their Torah. The Torah that they have doesn’t forbid homosexual activity (not, as you said, homosexuality– not even our Torah forbids that).”
If it’s true, that’s exactly the point – that’s what makes them apikorsum – the fact that they have a different Torah (again, no one is blaming them)
Jf2 – It seemed to me that some of the comments on this thread seemed to lend some support to the c and r movements. It may have been inadvertent, but we have to be exceedingly careful about making such comments especially in such a public forum.
Again, we always have to differentiate between the people and the beliefs, as well as between the people and their actions. The people are wonderful and it is great that they are doing what they can, but the movements are seriously problematic and it would be better if they didn’t exist. It would also be better if the people did not belong to these movements although on their part, they obviously don’t realize that, and they are simply trying to do the right thing.
JF2- Chalilah, no one said that their Mitzvos are worth nothing!!! I am the first person to say that every Mitzvah that every Jew does is worth an unbelievable unimaginable amount!!!!
All I said is that the Mitzvos of having the basic beliefs that every Jew is required to have are a thousand times more important!!! Therefore, it’s a thousand times more important to keep those Mitzvos, and it’s better to be a Jew who keeps the Mitzvos of having the right Emuna but doesn’t keep the practical Mitzvos than to be a Jew who keeps practical Mitzvos but doesn’t have the right Emunah.
Therefore, it is better to be a Chiloni Jew or an OTD Jew and “not keep anything” but have the right Emuna than to be a conservative or reform Jew.
The reason for that is that the Chiloni and OTD Jew mentioned above are keeping some Mitzvos – they are keeping the Mitzvos of not denying that Torah is M’Sinai and not denying that every Mitzvah is from Hashem. And those are the most important Mitzvos!!!!!
qualification: there may be people who call themselves conservative or reform but don’t have conservative or reform beliefs. In that case, they are not c or r and I am not referring to them necessarily. At the same time, the fact that they identify with C or R may still put them in that category to some extent.
Qualification 2: I am not judging the C and R people for being C or R. They are Tinok shenishba who are trying to do the best they can, but were unfortunately led astray by those who started the c and r movements. But the fact still remains that they are apikorsum al pi halacha, inadvertant as it may be (see Igros Moshe where he discusses this).
Qualification 3: There may be Chiloni or OTD Jews who have apikorsish beliefs as well. I was referring to those who don’t. At the same time, at least they don’t belong to a movement that advocates those beliefs. It is much worse to belong to a movement that advocates those beliefs.