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coffee addict: “Does this mean you aren’t tocho k’baro?
I’m actually happy now that people here (except for Joe of course ;)) can’t put on a show in the CR it shows emes”
good point! His whole point was that he’s complaining about a lack of truth!
“edited!” lol! Was the post really edited by the moderators? if so, why?
Abba_S: Thanks for the info, but single girls with white or gray hair don’t really have a choice in the matter.
Uh, Sparkly, so any explanation as to why you decided it’s okay for you to be the one to choose after you told me that I can’t because I already had a turn?
Shkoyach Little Froggie!!!
Kol Hakavod Mods!!!
Hillel and Shamai didn’t criticize each other’s grammar.
Sparkly – I had you in mind when I wrote my post because I know there was someone who insulted you.
Sadgirlygirl – I have heard that reading Chovos Halevavos Shaar Habitachon can be very helpful for depression. The first time I read it, I found it to be a real eye-opener, and I think it can be very helpful, although you might need other things as well. You can find it in english.
I also find that developing a good support system and social life as well as getting fresh air and sunshine and taking walks (in the fresh air and sunshine) can be very helpful. Getting enough sleep is CRUCIAL! I believe that I read that when people complained to Rav Avigdor Miller about depression, he said that the first thing you need to do is to make sure to get 8 hours of sleep a night and that will cure most problems.
Getting enough to eat also helps. And a little bit of chocolate doesn’t hurt either!
Basically, the most important thing is to take care of oneself through sleep, rest, eating properly, exercise, fresh air and sunshine, social life and Ruchnius.
Hatzlacha Rabba! Please keep us updated on how it goes and what helped (if you want to)
“To paraphrase from the Satmar Rebbe, Reb Yoelish,
If he/she is not a frum Jew and says that he/she is “only” anti-Zionist, then you know that professor is an anti-Semite.”
nishtdayngesheft, that’s a good one!
Sparkly – you were the one who said that the same person can’t go twice, and that’s why you didn’t let me go again when it should have been my turn, since I have gotten the answer right 3 times!
Whatever, if you want to go, it’s fine, it’s just funny that you decided that I can’t go and then you just decided that you are!
Sparkly – Many people don’t realize this but not being shomer negiah is one of the biggest aveiros around, much bigger than being mechalel Shabbos or eating Trafe. It is one of the few things that it is better to be killed than be oveir on. Not being tznius is also one of the biggest aveiros because you are sending to people to Gehinnom which is the greatest act of cruelty a person can perform.
That being said, it’s great that people keep whatever they can, and every Mitzvah has tremenous schar. If someone feels that it is too hard for him to be shomer negiah, it is great that he is still keeping what he can, as long as he doesn’t deny the Torah and doesn’t say that according to the Torah you don’t have to be shomer negiah.
Sparkly, I think that if someone asks for forgiveness, you should forgive them without their doing something for you. I think that is the halacha too. Unless there is something that they did that needs undoing.
Mashiach Agent, you wrote that it is upsetting when the mods don’t let posts go through. That is what Coffee was referring to, I believe.
In any case, bottom line is that there are people who get insulted, and there is no toeles to posting other people’s insults. I am talking about things like Reuven criticizing Shimon’s grammar. If Shimon finds it offensive, it should not be posted. If Reuven is upset that his post criticizing Shimon’s grammar was not posed, then Shimon is the one who has issues.
yitaynignwut: That may be (I can’t look it up right now) but one should still ask a sheilah and not make assumptions. We don’t necessarily posken by the Shulchan Aruch (especially Ashkenazim), and I am pretty sure that someone I know had to take the dye out of her hair before going to the Mikvah.
Mashiach Agent – You are you even if you use a fake name, and it makes just as much sense to be insulted as it does when using your real name. For that matter, if s.o. is on a high enough level, he won’t be insulted in “real life” either since even in real life “all the world is a stage and we are all poor actors.” (or s/t like that – I’m not sure I got the quote just right). However, we are human and have feeling and it is normal and healthy to feel insulted when s.o. insults you, and that is why we have halachos guarding people’s feelings.
If you can’t understand that, I think that you need help, and I think you should stop working as a psychologist because I am very worried about your clients.
Even if you can’t understand why someone would be hurt, the fact is that they are, so don’t do something that hurts them!!!
Gofish – while I agree with you to some extent, there are different definitions of MO, which makes things confusing (and one of the reasons why I am very anti-labels as a general rule!). Sparkly has made it clear from some of her other posts that her definition of MO involves being on a lower level religiously, and possibly, not following halacha.
Sparkly – my point was that if you can’t forgive her, then don’t push yourself. If you are mad at her, drop the friendship – it’s not good for you or for her, and stop pushing yourself to forgive her if you feel you can’t. You are not obligated to halachically and it is not good for you to feel pressured to if you can’t.
That’s just my opinion.
Sparkly – apparently that’s also what gofish thought you meant.
Gofish – read Sparkly’s last comment. Apparently she didn’t mean what you (and I) thought she meant. It is confusing with multiple conversations going on at once. In any case, what you wrote is completely true and important.
Mashiach Agent – another point: This is not what I had in mind, but it is also extremely important. Sometimes people write things that are insulting to other Coffee Room members (and un-called for). That is a problem even if no one knows anyone else’s identity, since the person can still feel very hurt.
Mashiach Agent – good question. I was referring to posts that malign Am Yisrael or the Frum World as a whole or groups within Am Yisrael. I have seen many posts that are guilty of one of the above and did make it past the moderators. I also know of times when such things were posted and then deleted by the moderators, so that is what I was referring to.
Sparkly – my pleasure!
Sparkly – I know the guys in college like you. You had said something about stumbling blocks, so I thought you were talking about the goyish boys in college who like you.
Right,but we weren’t just talking about dying your hair -we were talking about changing the color. There is a difference between dying to the natural color and dying to a different color. But again, it may depend on your circles.
I still would suggest going slowly – but that’s just my opinion.
A few other things that can be helpful:
1. Remembering that whatever happens is from Hashem and is good and nothing anyone can does can change that. Even if it seems like someone else harmed you, they can’t do anything to you. Whatever happened to you was from Hashem and not from them.
2. Try to figure out where they were coming from and why they may have done what they did. In other words, try to be “dan l’kaf zchus.”
Whether or not, the above 2 things are shayich for you depends on you and on the situation. If you feel that you can’t think that way and pushing yourself makes things worse, then don’t. I know that sometimes I need to work more on acknowledging my feelings and not on focusing on the above 2 things, and trying too hard just makes things worse. But if you are able to do them, then it’s kidai.
Sparkly – I can totally relate to you, because this is something that has always been a big issue for me. I have a VERY hard time forgiving people who are not sorry and do not apologize to me, especially if I have tried speaking to them and let them know that I am hurt and am waiting for their apology.
I have always felt very guilty about not forgiving people and I have wasted a lot of time and energy trying to force myself to forgive people. I have also done what you are doing and continued to be “friends” with people I hated because I felt like I had to.
I spoke to a Rav at one point about it and he told me that according to Halacha I am not required to forgive someone who does not apologize. I felt much better once he said that.
What has helped for me is the following:
1. Trying not to feel guilty about the fact that it is hard for me to forgive people.
2. Acknowledging and accepting my feelings.
3. Not trying to push myself to forgive people if I really feel I can’t.
4. Making sure that they are aware that I am upset with them and that I would want to continue being friends with them but can only do so if they apologize to me.
5. If they still refuse to apologize to me, I discontinue the relationship, and wait things out.
6. Sometimes, I do eventually reach a place where I feel that I no longer need an apology and can be friends with them without it. However, I try hard to be honest with myself and only recontinue friendships if I really feel I am “holding” by it and I am ready to let go and I am not just pretending.
Sparkly – I don’t know. I don’t think there’s a halachic issue. I think it’s the type of thing that some people might disapprove of. Personally, I think that if you don’t have grey hair and you are stam dying your hair from brunette to blond, it might not be a good idea, because it could give people a wrong impression of you.
On the other hand, if you have grey hair and have to dye your hair anyhow, it’s kind of like “why not just dye it the color you want?” but still, it could look funny to others. I would suggest going slowly – like maybe, the first time you dye your hair, make it a bit lighter than usual, and each time, make it a bit lighter, but I wouldn’t go from total brunette to total blonde.
However, that is just my opinion. I don’t think there are halachic problems, and if you think that in your circles, people won’t talk about you or have the wrong impression of you, do what you want.
Gofish – while I think some of what you wrote is beautiful, I do have to make a couple of important corrections:
1. Everything is in the Torah – there is nothing but Torah. Jewish religious zeal always makes one a kinder, sensitive person. If it doesn’t, it not true religious zeal.
2. Writing “whose zeal and religious sensitivities don’t override their humanity” implies that there are two truths – the truth of Torah and the truth of humanity and we can’t let the first override the second. As I wrote above, everything is in the Torah- we don’t need humanistic values – if they are part of the Torah, they don’t need to be mentioned separately, and if they are not, then they are not a good thing.
3.”I respect those who can peel away the chitzonios and find the pnimiyus within Yiddishkeit.”
We should NOT be peeling away the chitzonius. We need both the Chitzonius and the pnimius. They are supposed to go together! I think that you meant to say that we have to be careful not to get so caught up in the chitzonius that we forget about the pnimius, or forget that the main point of the chitzonius is to bring us to the pnimius.
However, we also have to make sure that we don’t get so caught up in the pnimius that we forget about the chitzonius. That was the philosophy of the early Reform movement as well as of the Yidden who came to the US and wanted to just be Jews-at-heart. This is NOT our philosophy!!! We believe you need both. They must go together and can NOT be separated!!!
“I respect every person in the world who uses their struggles and challenges to make the world a better place.”
I wholeheartedly agree, but it must be done according to Torah!!
Gofish: “Sparkly – as in your own feelings?”
Sparkly: “gofish-yes”
Sparkly, are you talking about the boys in college or about the comments someone posted about your writing?
Mashiach Agent, Halachically, there is a very big difference between something said privately by one person to another person, and something said in a (VERY) public forum. When it comes to hilchos Lashon Hara, if someone is speaking to you privately because he wants help with a situation, most or all of the time you should let him speak so that you can help him. This is true even if you are not a practicing psychologist, and kal v’chomer, if you are.
When it comes to a public forum where everything that is written can be read by EVERYONE in the world FOREVER, you have to be exceedingly careful about hilchos Lashon Hara!!! Toeles is not generally relevant here- if someone needs to say something that is ordinarily LH for the same of toeles, it can not be done here. They must find a PERSON (as in a SINGLE person -not a group- and as in a real person whom you know something about). There are halachos regarding the type of person it must be:
1. It has to be a single person.
2.It has to be someone objective who will not be “mekabel” (accept) what you are saying as fact.
3.It has to be someone whom speaking to will be helpful.
4.It has to be someone who will not add to your LH, but instead help you to feel better about the person or group in question, and not lead you to have more hatred or negative feelings towards them.
These conditions can almost never apply in a VERY public forum.
Also, it is important to remember that all Jews have a portion in Olam Haba, no matter how bad they are, with a few exceptions. One exception is a BAAL LOSHON HARA! Until the advent of Internet, few people fell in the category of Baalei Loshon Hara. Unfortunately, with the advent of the internet, it has become exceedingly easy to be a baal loshon hara!! With one inappropriate sentence recorded online forever for the ENTIRE world to hear, one can easily become a baal loshon hara and be in danger of losing his Portion in the World-to-Come forever!!!!
Olam Haba is guaranteed to all of us!!! Why would anyone want to lose it??
As for the moderators, it is THEIR responsibility to make sure that no Loshon Hara is posted, since it is their site!! They can not be too careful!!! All of our Olam Habas are at stake!! Not to mention that we don’t want to push off Mashiach anymore!!!
If she’s in shidduchim, she’s not going to the Mikveh, so it’s not a problem.
If she’s married, she should ask a sheilah.
“what should you say when a guy asks you to high five because you did the best on the test? This really happened to me. the guy tried high fiving and he was like please high five me and i was like shocked and didnt know what to do… so in the end i just said it had to do with religion… anything i should do when this probably will happen again?”
You did the right thing Sparkly! That is what I always do. I very politely say something like, “I’m sorry, but I don’t shake hands with men for religious reasons.” They almost always understand and respect me for it. And if there are some that don’t – that’s their problem, not mine!
It’s important to realize that a lot of people define the terms Kiddush Hashem & Chillul Hashem incorrectly. Some people think that if you are following Halacha and others look down at you for it, it is a Chillul HAshem. Nothing could be further from the truth!! It is actually a tremendous Kiddush Hashem. Whether something is a Kiddush Hashem or Chilul Hashem is not dependent on others’ reactions. When you are doing the right thing it called a Kiddush Hashem and when you are doing the wrong things it is called a Chilul Hashem.
So even if they dislike you for it (which is unlikely), it is a tremendous Kiddush Hashem!! And besides, you don’t really want to have anything to do with s.o. who would dislike you for sticking to your principles!
Since it is still Tisha B’Av for most people here and they shouldn’t be posting, I think we should wait till Tisha B’Av is over in the East Coast, which is presumably where most CR posters live.
Thanks for the explanation Sparkly. Now that you mention it, I think I have seen pictures before.
showjoe – you did choose a good one!
Sparkly – I wasn’t talking to you! I was talking to someone else – but it looks like her/his comment was taken out!
I respect all of the kids-at-risk whether they are OTD or not, for trying their best to survive and thrive despite the difficult lives they have, and in most or many cases for trying to keep whatever Mitzvos they can. I respect EVERYONE who has a difficult life but keeps trying to survive and hold on and do the best they can.
Sparkly – that was a good one!
It is time for truth – your comment about sadgirlygirl was completely inappropriate and baseless. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her opening post. She was in no way “over” on being dan l’kaf zchus! She even says that she assumes the doctor is a yarei Shamayim.
She was simply taking the precautions that every Frum girl is supposed to take! Being overly trusting is not the Jewish way! We are supposed to take precautions and make “gedarim”! I think that Sadgirlygirl is to be greatly commended for listening to her instincts and being brave enough to quit her job when she felt there could be a problem!! And all those who have criticized her owe her a major apology!!
PS: I think we have to make a new rule that you can only choose something that you are reasonable sure that everyone else has heard of.
ok, fast is over now. One of the first things I did was to log on and find out the answer.
A few comments:
1. I am NOT a boy.
2. 29- You’re a girl? I was sure you were a boy!
3. What in the world is the Grim Reaper?? (I guess that proves I’m not a boy!)
4. Do you realize that this is the first round I’ve lost? I guess that’s because until now people chose things that I’m davka
very familiar with such as coffee, babies and college – all things that are very much part of my life!
5. I assume YOU are a boy, showjoe, based on your choice?
Joseph – thanks for the compliment!
It has to do with different mentalities and societal norms. I have the feeling that to an Israeli Yerushalmi Chassid I may look modern even though I am very tznius imho. My hair is longer than your typical Israeli Chassidish girl’s is, and there could be undefinable style differences – things that I may not even be able to say what they are.
Basically, the fact that I don’t look like an Israeli Chassidish girl (since I’m not one) may make me look modern to them. It’s the same way that if I see a girl or guy dressed in a way that is typically considered “modern” then even if they are technically tznius, I may automatically think of them as more modern than someone who is dressed more “yeshivish” and while I may assume they are makpid on halacha, I might not assume that they are makpid on things that are not strictly halacha but that Yeshivish people are makpid on.
I was talking about Orthodox Rabbis
“lilmod ulelamaid – I agree.”
Thanks Sparkly!
My point was that everyone can find something nice to say that is clearly not anti-Torah and not controversial.
I do have to leave for Shabbos already, but meanwhile, I’ll start:
1. One year when I was in Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet (the Chassidish part of Ramat Beit Shemesh) for Pesach, I decided that I wanted to go to Shul the night of Leil Haseder. So I went outside to look for a Shul with a women’s section. I asked some little Chassidish boys for help and they went out of their way to help me. I think they even walked me to the Shul. When I got to the Shul, the women’s section was locked, but some Chassidish men saw me, and went all the way around the shul to get the key and unlock the door just for me (I was the only woman in shul that night)!
ok, I just don’t see how anything else can come close!!! I have a feeling that when we find out the answer, there may be some chilukei daos on how the questions were answered!
Guys, it’s Erev Tisha B’Av!!! Let’s turn this thread into a contest to see who can find the most positive things to say about Am Yisrael!!! (while being careful not to give validity to anything that might be anti-Torah)
29- I think for question 20 you should ask if it’s pokeman. I didn’t want to ask because it’s really your question. But actually, I think Sparkly asked it in any case.
Shopping – that’s a man walking between 2 women or 2 dogs and one more (maybe pigs?) Each one is for a different reason obviously.
There is an inyan of a woman not walking between 2 men and I think some may hold it’s assur gamur but I think there are other opinions and I think most posken that it’s not mamash assur.
It could be that these men held it was assur gamur. That would make sense, since they probably thought that I was much more modern than them so it seems unlikely that they would have assumed that I’m makpid on something that they don’t consider to be assur.
“And technically, I think Pokemon would be hard to fit in a trunk because it doesn’t exist. But it’s “size” would allow for it.”
I thought of that also after I made my comment.
And maybe he wasn’t sure if it’s man-made because it’s computer-made? Although I still thinks that makes it man-made.
Mod 29 -sorry if I messed you up by adding an unnecessary question but I do think there are things that may have been ruled out by 19 that weren’t ruled out by 17, so I’m not sure if it’s fair not to count it.
In any case, I have to leave for Shabbos soon so I hope we get the answer by then, cuz otherwise I’ll have to wait till after Tisha B’Av for the answer!!