Forum Replies Created
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happygirlygirl – 🙂
Happygirlygirl: I just realized that you have no idea who I am, so you are probably thinking, “why should I care what LU has to say on the topic?” I realize that you don’t know who I am and I am reluctant to reveal my identity or even give over too many facts about myself, but I will just tell you that I have been teaching halacha and hashkafa in seminaries for many years, so I am reasonably qualified to answer a question like this.
But again, I will try to speak to a Rav about it when I have a chance.
Sam2 – perhaps. But either way, that wasn’t what we were talking about, as I pointed out (or at least not what I was talking about).
Happygirlygirl- That’s a very good question, and I am very impressed by the fact that you are asking it! I have never heard of any Rav assuring makeup, and my impression is that in fact, it is considered very important nowadays for girls to look good and feel good about their appearance and that nowadays, makeup is considered acceptable. The question is: How can this be so if we have those psukim in (it’s either Yeshayahu or Yirmiyahu – I believe it’s in a Rashi there) seemingly stating otherwise?
There seem to be two distinctions:
1. The reason why you are wearing makeup. Are you wearing the makeup for not lishma reasons (to attract boys not for marriage purposes) or are you wearing the makeup because you want to feel good about yourself and/or for shidduch/tachlis purposes (which would also include wearing makeup while not on dates in order that people will set you up)
2. It has to do with the type and/or amount of makeup worn. If you are wearing makeup in such a way that you really stick out, then maybe it’s a problem, but if your makeup is more or less natural and meant to enhance your features, then it should be fine.
It is important to remember that extremes in either direction are not good, and it is a Torah value to be happy and feel good about oneself.
I understand that you want to know what Daas Torah is on the topic. I believe that what I wrote is according to Daas Torah, but when I have a chance, I will try to verify for you if I can.
TOL: I would like to express my sympathy to you for what you went through and more importantly my admiration for your having the strength to come out and move on and become the articulate person that you clearly are. I can’t even imagine what you went through. AS hard as my life seems to be, I don’t think there is a comparison. Gehenom does sound like an accurate term.
Thinking Out Loud: Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience. Obviously, it is much more meaningful to hear from someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about.
What I understand from your words is that non-clinical depression can be helped by all the ideas people posted, but that clinical depression is not helped by them. If I understand you correctly, true clinical depression is not helped at all by these things (although it’s possible that these things could have helped before it got to that point)
What I still don’t understand is: if that is the case, then what does help real clinical depression? Is it only medication or are there other options?
It also seems to me that the fact that someone is taking medication does not necessarily mean that that person has the type of depression that you describe and could not necessarily have been helped in any way. I am saying that based on the fact that it has become exceedingly common nowadays to take medication. In fact, I have heard that app. 1/4 or 1/3 of all people in the Western world are on medication for depression (although I would guess that the numbers are different in the Yeshivish world). I can’t imagine that all those people went through what you want through and that it would have been completely impossible for anything else to have helped. Would you call what those people have clinical depression?
Tachlis, it sounds like none of the posters were referring to the real kind of clinical depression that you were describing. Amongst other things, it sounds like someone in that state would not have been capable of posting. Therefore, all the advice given was worthwhile advice.
Bentzion, if either of the Rebbeim you quoted is YOUR Rebbe, then I agree with Nechomah 100%. Emunas Chachamim is not something to take lightly, whether you agree with what they say or not!!
On the other hand, if those are not your Rabbanim, you should ask a qualified Rav or find out what other Gedolim say.
Comlink-x happygirlygirl, sadgirlygirl was nystatetrooper before that.
Right on Sparkly & Happygirlygirl!! I think that is the Torah’s attitude! I say “sheasani kirtzono” every morning with lots of kavana & feel really bad for those who don’t get this!
Happygirlygirl, why not? Maybe they will feel peer pressured to reveal the secret. I don’t know – I was always taught not to tell secrets in public.
by the way, I just looked it up, and it’s hair dyeing not hair dying. Dying without the e has to do with being dead. But maybe that’s what you meant – that her hair will die if there’s a tornado.
Comlink – well then it made sense that I liked R’ Yisrael Salanter’s quote better than Winston Churchill’s.
I know, but I think we’re all paranoid. Actually, I do think it has to do with specific posters, but probably more than one. I am positive it must have to do with editing. Maybe we should play 20 questions to figure it out.
ps: just want to add: if in general you find that a certain “type” is more likely to work for you, you should certainly give “kadima” to that type.
One thing that I have found both from my own experience as well as friends’ is that often people say they want someone extroverted or introverted and that is not really what they mean. Really they may be referring to a certain quality that is important to them that they associate with extroversion or introversion. For example, I always said that I wanted someone extroverted and then I realized that I meant someone with good social skills and self-confidence. I have a friend who wants someone introverted because she associates introversion with social skills and self-confidence.
It may be kidai for you to think about whether or not it’s the extroversion/introversion factor that’s important to you or something else. For example, maybe what you really mean is that you want someone who is a good listener.
It is also important to remember that people often end up with someone different than what they thought, so on the one hand, you should pay attention to your instincts and feelings, but at the same time, try not to be too rigid. Try to hear what the specific girl is about and don’t just label her as extroverted.
In terms of whether it’s better to marry someone similar or different, it can go either way, so there is no rule. It depends what you are comfortable with and what works for you.
Just my opinion.
Hatzlacha in finding your zivug b’karov!
Comlink-x, yeah, that’s what we meant – the second link. I’m dying to know what this secret is about and whether or not it’s about me in any way. I think a lot of posters feel the same way. I think it may have something to do with editing posts but I’m not sure what exactly.
Sparkly – true. I think his plan was always to stop smoking once he got married; he just felt it was something he needed to do while he was single. It’s definitely better than other things singles do like not being shomer negiah & not keeping hilchos tznius, etc.
Okay, I just read through most of this thread & I have a few comments. I don’t have time for all of them now, but I will start.
1. Some posters were trying to equate movies with smoking by saying that movies are also addictive, and then an argument started regarding whether or not movies are addictive. The thing is: whether or not movies are addictive is irrelevant to the argument regarding whether or not movies are as bad as smoking. What renders smoking a problem (acc. to most people who consider it a problem) IS the addiction factor. If someone smoked as a one-time thing most people would agree that they have not harmed themselves directly by the one-time smoking. The main problem with smoking is that people get addicted and it is rarely a one-time thing.
However, with movies, addiction is NOT the main problem. Even if it’s impossible to get addicted to movies, the problem with movies is that if you watched a movie one time (assuming for a moment that there is no such thing as a completely kosher movie, and if there is, that is not what we are talking about), it has affected you for life in both this world and the next. So whether or not it’s addictive is not particularly relevant to this discussion.
Tachlis, I don’t think movies can be considered addictive in the way that smoking is, but I think they are much worse.
Absan – I was referring to someone I know who does know English but, by her own admission, can’t spell. So I guess I wasn’t referring to you if you don’t know english.
I have a friend whose husband was an older single boy until he married her. He smoked until he got married (she didn’t find out until right before they got engaged or she probably would never have ended up going out with him or marrying him). When he mentioned that he used to smoke, I was shocked because he is a really serious Ben Torah and very straight and shtark. He explained that as an older single boy (maybe even just as a bochur even w/o the older part), he needed an outlet. He needed to do something that felt “rebellious” but was not actually assur (at least not in the way that movies, hanging out with girls, etc. are), so that’s why he smoked. My impression is that is why a lot of bochurim smoke.
Until I heard that, I was very judgmental of people who smoke. But once he said that I could hear the logic in it. Personally, I still would probably be very reluctant to go out with someone who smokes, but I think that is an emotional reaction. The fact is that I would understand (to some degree) if an older single boy felt a need to watch movies occasionally, and smoking is certainly no worse (probably better).
It is also important to keep in mind that even if smoking is assur, I think that only applies to smoking an amount that would lead to addiction. I know a Talmid Chacham who smokes once a week because he said that doesn’t lead to addiction.
It is also important to remember that “hevei dan es kol haadam l’kaf zchus” applies to those who smoke as well. Tisha B’Av just ended and it’s almost Yom Kippur. Let’s try to judge favorably – maybe those people who are smoking would be doing something worse if not smoking.
Absan: “So l.u do u know me?”
Huh?
Sparkly – is it possible that there was a reason why the cashier was supposed to give you the amount he gave you? They probably know what the rules are and have reasons for what they do. What was the situation, and why did he claim to be giving you the amount he gave you?
Sparkly – me. She thought I was a boy
Happygirlygirl – lol 🙂
I’m also dying of curiosity about that! I feel like someone is telling secrets in public.
Happygirlygirl please stay!!! I don’t feel that way – I want you to stay!! And I’m sure there are others who feel the same way. You are one of my favorite posters!
Thanks Absan!
Good for you Sparkly!
Happygirlygirl – beautiful poem for a 13 year old! I am impressed.
Regarding the supermarket maaseh – if the girls didn’t do anything wrong they won’t be punished. But when someone does something wrong, they are punished. If a girl dresses untzniusly, she is responsible for causing others to do an aveira.
That being said, it’s also important to remember that there is another reason for being tznius. If girls realized how demeaning it is to dress untzniusly, they wouldn’t do it. If the girls realized how the boys think, they wouldn’t dress that way. Everyone should listen to Rav Orlofsky’s tape on platonic relationships. It’s about negiah, but I think the things he says apply to tznius as well.
good point about boys being tznius as well. But it’s still primarily a Mitzvah that belongs to us. Go us!!
Sparkly, I wasn’t trying to imply that you are a quitter, chas v’shalom!!!
That comment wasn’t referring to you at all. I was referring to another thread in which Happygirlygirl wrote that there are people who call her a quitter. Based on what she wrote here, I think that is crazy!!!!!
Very True!!!
Meno: “I’m pretty sure there was a thread started a few days ago complaining that the mods delete too much”
And therefore?
All the more reason why I felt it necessary to state my opinion on the matter.
The way in which Am Yisrael is the best is in the fact that we have the most potential. That is why we daven ‘bzchus avos’. We have POTENTIAL as the children of the Avos. It’s not because of what we did but because of what Hashem has given us and t/f what we can do.
p.s. to my above post: There are two reasons why I think it’s good to have different ages together:
1. The younger chevra can learn things and get chizuk from the older chevra.
2. The older chevra can work on their middos especially the middah of not looking down on others. Based on some of the above posts…
I know they weren’t meant that way, but I think that there may be posters who could possibly have been offended by some of the comments in this thread.
I understand some of the issues raised, but at the same I think that it’s good in some ways to have different age groups in the same threads. I think that people are really able to help each other in a way that wouldn’t be possible otherwise. From what I have seen, the Coffee Room has been the catalyst for a lot of really important things in that way.
Also, age does not necessarily = maturity, and it would be very difficult to split people up by maturity levels.
Another point is that some of the so-called adult topics mentioned do not apply to all adults regardless of age since some people are unmarried and/or childless. It can be very insulting to be excluded from things just because of your marital status. The Coffee Room should be one place where no one is excluded based on age or marital status.
Just my opinion. Take it or leave it. I see the other side, but wanted to present this one.
All the psychology classes I took were full of evolution and kefira – I’m not saying that means it’s assur to go to college if you need to, but it’s not something to take lightly and it should only be done if necessary. Personally, I am very grateful that I didn’t go to a secular college when I was younger and am only going now when I’m older, so it’s much less problematic, although still an issue.
It is a problem when people just assume that it’s totally fine to go to college instead of realizing that it’s b’dieved, and much thought has to go into it before deciding to go, and even once one decides to go, they must put a lot of thought into what they will study and where and how.
If you do go to college, it’s very important to maintain a kesher with a Rav and make sure you have a strong learning schedule (whether you are male or female) and a good support system. It’s also preferable to have a few steady years of learning Torah under your belt before you start college.
Sparkly – that would be most people’s reactions. That’s why it’s so amazing that Happygirlygirl was able to overcome the natural reaction and go back to the school. Truly Amazing! And she is definitely not a quitter!
If someone dreams about spiders, it has a lot of significance. It probably means that he is scared of spiders. Alternatively, he may have seen a spider that day, although it’s still unlikely that he would have dreamed about it unless he was scared.
I don’t know why someone would dream that he is a spider. Maybe you were watching Spiderman? Or maybe it’s your way of dealing with your fear of spiders?
Shopping – let me know if you are able to find them and post on them.
if you go to yahoo groups you can probably find them. There are at least one or two for Beit Shemesh/Ramat Beit Shemesh. You can try googling Ramat Beit Shemesh yahoo groups. I don’t know if you have to live in Beit Shemesh in order to become a member. It could be you don’t, and if you do, maybe you could find someone to post for you.
There’s also one in Kew Gardens Hill (try googling KGHshuls yahoo groups), and one in the FiveTowns, one in Teaneck, I think one in Monsey, one in Neve Yaakov.
Wolfish – if it’s a realistic fear, the rest of the world does have to accommodate. Likewise, if redheads really were dangerous, they would have to be kept off the streets.