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Health: some more examples of my friends’ mesiras nefesh/non-materialism: never buying clothes anywhere but Deja New, kids either wear hand-me-downs or clothes from Deja New, never ever going out to eat even for a bagel or picking up an iced coffee, dinner every night is either pasta or tuna patties that you have to say “ha’adama” on because they contain way more potatoes than tuna (I’m not exaggerating. They do have fleishiks one night a week, but it’s usually hot dogs), rarely buying a new sheitel and when she does, she gets a second-hand one for really cheap.
Health- shkoyach! Thanks for asking so nicely. I would rather not answer that question since I do not want to give too much personal information online. I will just say that it was several years, and it was long enough to meet and get to know many people. Since I’m a single girl, I spent a lot of time in people’s houses and really getting to know them.
The people that I know in Lakewood are incredibly non-materialistic in addition to being very hard-working!!!! I always considered myself to be extremely non-materialistic, but I really don’t think that I could live the way they do. I certainly could not work as hard. I really don’t think that I could have done what these people do – gotten married at 19 or 20 to a guy who was planning to (and did) spend the rest of his life learning, and raised 10 or so kids while supporting the family nearly single-handedly and living on very little. The people that I know don’t go on vacations (unless you count a weekend by their parents during bein hazmanim).
One lady I know felt that two of her kids really needed to go to camp during the summer. These were her two teenage girls who work INCREDIBLY hard all year since she is a working mother with a bunch of kids, and she can’t afford any cleaning help. Since she felt that these 2 girls NEEDED to go to camp, she took on an extra job and made herself crazy working crazy-hard in order to be able to pay for it. She does not send any of her other girls to camp, and she is not sending her daughter to seminary in Eretz Yisrael. She is sending her to a very inexpensive seminary in the US even though it is COMPLETELY not the right school for her daughter and her daughter is not excited about it at all and would love to go to Eretz Yisrael and would gain a ton from it! This is despite all the pressure from yours truly to try to convince her to send her daughter to EY, because she says she simply can’t afford it!
Sparkly: “besides for the fact out of the 2 guys im MUCH more likely going to end up with the one who DOES want me to cover my hair.”
He does sound like he’s probably more your type from what I know about you.
Sparkly – I don’t know why you are saying Motzi Shem Ra on yourself. From other things you have posted, you clearly are working hard on shmiras ainayim. You asked for suggestions of “kosher” books to read, and you mentioned being bothered by the fact that a librarian gave you a book with a treif picture. I was very impressed by that! You obviously are trying to work on it. My impression of you in general is that you are someone who does try to work on herself especially when it comes to tznius matters.
Working on oneself doesn’t mean being perfect tomorrow. It means trying to do what one can and continually finding small steps one can take to improve.
I.M. Shluffin: “Climbing Mt. Everest would work fine, but it’s hard to find kosher restaurants up there. So you have to know your priorities.”
Restaurants are more important than shmiras ainayim?!! I think you may want to reconsider your priorities.
I can think of other reasons for not climbing Mt. Everest, but I don’t think that’s one of them.
btw, if you’re sleeping, you shouldn’t have too much of a problem with shmiras ainayim, I.M. Shluffin!
Daas Yachid:
“Once we’re minding their business, I figured I’d take the next step.
Really, it’s wonderful that you brought up this issue. The more we are reminded, and the more we can discuss ideas to prevent it, the less likely it is to occur again.
I just don’t think it’s right to discuss the individuals in the story, and to assume the worst.”
Shkoyach DY! People forget that we are dealing with real people here. The fact that they were in the news does not make it okay to discuss it. According to halacha, it is assur to write news that is Loshon Hara, to read it, or to even believe it, and certainly not to repeat it or add to it.
Health -so start one instead of blaming others for not doing so.
Joseph, who is yours?
1. I try to live in communities where people dress tzniusly.
2. When I lived in the US, I tried to avoid goyish stores/businesses.
3.In the US, I almost always used the ATM at the bank instead of going inside and dealing with the tellers, since the tellers in my bank didn’t dress tzniusly. I actually found out recently that there is another bank which requires its workers to wear uniforms, so there are Frum people who switched to that bank, I think.
4. When I lived on my own, I deliberately didn’t get Internet at home, even though I needed to use it on a regular basis. I went to Cubicles (a Frum Internet place) instead.
5. I tried to avoid the Public Library, but if I had to use it, I trained myself to turn my eyes so that I could avoid looking at the magazine racks when I walked in.
6. When I’m out, if I see there are people around who aren’t dressed or acting tzniusly, I try to avoid looking at them, and I try to avoid walking behind or near them (I cross the street or walk ahead of them).
7. Now when I’m living in someone’s house who has a lot of inappropriate books and photographs around. I try to avoid reading or looking at any of them.
8. I spend time in the CR rather than going to other sites that could be more problematic :).
9. When I was in the US, I went out of my way to avoid goyish transportation.
10. I got adblocker for the computer that I use. I still have to find out more about filters, and find out if I can get a filter just for my account (since it’s not my computer).
11. If I am looking something up on online, and something inappropriate comes up, I try to either log off of the site right away or cover up the part that’s a problem.
12. I try to stick to sites that I already know are okay and not to just google things or “surf the web”. Obviously, I still need to work on that, hence #11.
13. When I was teaching reading, I went through all the books and colored in the untznius pictures (I had a lot of fun coloring in black shells, etc. 🙂 )
ZD: Thank you. I will just add: The lesson of the story is that even someone like On understood that he couldn’t walk past a lady with her hair uncovered (even though it was only 1 or 2 strands, and even though he was someone who was going to join Korach).
Regardless of what the Rambam said or didn’t way, WE can not posken according to the Rambam. WE posken based on what OUR Gedolim say (having learned the relevant sources and understanding them much better than we can and knowing how they apply to contemporary society).
Rav Moshe Feinstein Zatsal has very strong words to say regarding someone who DOESN’T learn because he doesn’t want to take money. I believe that someone may have quoted the source earlier (either in this thread or another one). If not, I would appreciate it if someone who knows it could bring it (I don’t have an Igros Moshe handy).
Sorry, Wolf. Thanks for pointing that out. I usually do – must have been an oversight this time.
It does get confusing even with quotes. How do you italicize? I didn’t think it was possible to do that here?
I’m not sure if the above- cited Medrash is PROOF that it’s halacha, since it’s POSSIBLE that he was being machmir. (I believe it was only one or two strands of hair that were showing). I’m not sure if he was being machmir or not; I’m just saying that it might be a possibility.
Happpgirlygirl – It’s not in the Tanach per se’ – it’s a Medrash. Not that it matters, since it’s probably a Medrash that is meant to be taken literally.
” Problem if the teacher is a secular Jew (helps to be familiar with the civil rights laws on the matter).”
Akuperma, explanation?
“And if you are explaining Hol ha-Moed to a frum Jew who ignores it, best to have the Shulhan Arukh with you.”
If they won’t listen to you, halachically it might be better not to say anything unless they asked. If they asked you, it’s probably different.
Ubiquitin: I recently heard a speaker (can’t remember who) talking about Shavuos. He started off by saying something to the effect that it’s the most important day in history for EVERYONE since an event took place that changed the entire world, and yet, most people are not even aware of the day’s existence.
Wolf: there are some issues in which there are different acceptable opinions and some in which there are not. I will not go through each example you cited and state which category it falls under, since: a) I am not familiar with each issue & b) they were just examples anyhow.
To take one example you cited that I am familiar with, the issue of a woman wearing stockings below her knee: the Mishna Berurah clearly states that one only has to cover her knees and not below her knees if it’s not the minhag hamakom where she lives.
As far as I know, there is NO opinion that a lady does not have to cover her hair AT ALL. There may be different opinions regarding HOW or HOW MUCH, but there is no opinion that she does not have to cover her hair AT ALL!
Someone who takes a lenient opinion is not an apikorus. Someone who denies a halacha is.
If you know of any source that contradicts what I wrote, I would be more than happy to hear it.
It would be more correct to state that certain types of Melacha are permitted in certain circumstances.
Yes, I know. I just didn’t feel like typing out “work of the type permitted on Chol HaMoed.”
The Wolf
Understood. It wasn’t meant as a criticism; I just felt it was important to clarify.
I’m glad I live in chutz laaretz. Being that how can a person feel the Tom tov kedusha when 6 out of 7 days a person is allowed to do melacha.
Ummm… you do realize that that’s the way we’re *supposed to* observe it, right? In an ideal world, we’d ALL be keeping only one day of Yom Tov.
I also think it’s absurd of you to question how people living in Eretz Yisroel can feel the kedusha of Yom Tov. I’m sure they do just fine.
Wolf, thanks for writing what I (and I think many others) were thinking.
Health – I would appreciate it if you could learn to respond to my posts politely. Comments like “Cut the baloney” “Stop dreaming” and “Wrong!” are inappropriate and unintelligent and do not lend themselves to intellectual adult discourse. If you have a question on something I wrote and would like to ask me about it, I would be happy to respond if you ask me politely and appropriately. Thank you in advance.
“Is it necessary to insult Zevulun as he gives Yissocher his livelihood?”
No. Likewise, it is also unnecessary to insult Yissochar as he gives Zevulun his livelihood.
Moderators: Chas v’shalom! I wasn’t asking for information about a poster.You mentioned above that you know that Joseph had a few usernames. I was curious as to how you would know that. That’s all. Not very important.
“Succos explanation=we traveled 40 years in the desert upon leaving to freedom from Passover….. And lived in tents so we now eat in tents/Succos during these days of the year.”
lol. I am just thinking about how a goy would react on hearing that. It’s a great start, but should be expanded a bit to explain why this is important.
“Passover explanation=our nation of jews were freed from slavery and were redeemed
Shavuous explanation=day we received the bible (old testament) from G-d”
Good explanations, MA. I would maybe add for Passover that G-d made a lot of miracles to free us, and that it is when we became a Nation (or G-d’s Nation).
Whoops! I see that I made a typo in my previous post.
This is how it was meant to look:
Time for Truth:
“Shopping613,
Most of the comments are within of what come before.
you’re a johnny come lately
Secondly, you may have thin skin
who is to say it’s sinas chinum, maybe it is “tolerate and love?!
On the contrary, the Gemara says not giving reproof when it is called for is Sinas chinum
Thirdly,
Psalm 97:10″
Well said Time for Truth!
The statement that you can do melacha on Chol Hamoed (and Hoshana Rabba) is not a completely accurate statement. It would be more correct to state that certain types of Melacha are permitted in certain circumstances. This is an important distinction to make, as there may be many people who are not aware of this or do not realize the seriousness of performing melacha on Chol Hamoed (or Hoshana Rabba) unless it is a situation that allows it (of which there are many).
“It has become a preoccupation with dependency, rooted in laziness, avoidance of challenge, and topped with delusions of being closer to Hashem.
This is a disgusting portrayal of bitter people determined to talk down a beautiful lifestyle which makes them feel inferior.
“Kollel” is where men of all calibers – with one common trait, which is motivation – sit and learn Torah, ???? ?????. There are thousands of yungerleit all over the world who have no interest in anything but the d’veykus of Torah. It is something we should all aspire to, even if many are not able to make it.
Yes, we all agree that there are those who don’t belong in Kollel. There are people in every sector of humanity who don’t belong, who are simply working on the benefits a specific vocation would have for them, and skirt the responsibilities it comes with. But these are a minority. And to say that this is the entire Kollel community is nothing short of ????? ?? ??.”
Shkoyach Yekke2!
Shopping613,
Most of the comments are within of what come before.
Time for Truth: “you’re a johnny come lately
Secondly, you may have thin skin
who is to say it’s sinas chinum, maybe it is “tolerate and love?!
On the contrary, the Gemara says not giving reproof when it is called for is Sinas chinum
Thirdly,
Psalm 97:10″
Well said Time for Truth!
Sparkly: “you are VERY insulting to start calling people apikorsim because their more lenient than you are.”
I never said any such things. Please do not say that I said something that I didn’t.
Sparkly: you always talk about how much you love learning, particularly Gemara, and how you learn so much more than other girls. Why don’t you try looking up some of the issues we have just been talking about instead of believing everything that people with the title Rabbi tell you and instead of attacking people who ARE quoting Torah sources?
btw, I never said that someone who doesn’t cover their hair is an Apikorus. I said that someone who says that you don’t have to cover your hair is an apikorus. We have explained to you before why this is so. If you have a reliable source that says otherwise, please share it with the olam. Thank you!
Wolf: There are sources (the ones the Ashkenazim rely on) that fish and dairy is neither halacha nor sakana. If everyone held that it was sakana, it would be assur for Ashkenazim as well.
Little Froggie – nice of you to be dan l’kaf zchus, but it really does not sound like that from the lashon. IF that is what she meant, she should have made sure it was clear. (examples: if someone says they think it’s okay not to be shomer negiah and it turns out they are talking about touching their 5 year old brothers, or someone says she thinks it’s okay to wear pants and she was really talking about wearing pajama pants to sleep, someone says it’s okay for a girl to walk in front of a boy and she was talking about a baby, etc.)
Moderators: how would you know if it’s the same person? Did we have to give over any personal information when we signed up?
If you want information about a poster it would be best to ask them themselves
Joseph: Why in the world would you have used Likud for a username of all things?
@ Moderators: So does that mean that Joe really has a few usernames?
Had. I don’t know of any others currently.
Sparkly – I am just telling you what the Torah says.
As I have told you many times before, any Rabbi who denies a halacha is an Apikorus. Kefira is one of the biggest aveiros. Please stop spreading your Kefiradik views.
If you say that this Rabbi denies that one is obligated to cover her hair, YOU are saying that he is an Apikorus! If in fact this is Motzi Shem Ra, and you were saying things about him that are not true, as you have done in the past about your own Rabbi, please correct them, as soon as possible.
“If your son drives a car or travels to and from Yeshiva or school on his own he should have a phone for safety.”
True, and while there may be Yeshivas that don’t allow cell phones, my guess is that any Yeshiva that allows driving also allows cell phones, so I assume that’s not an issue.
Funny, because the kollel people I know who live in the US say the reason they live there and not in EY is because they wouldn’t be able to manage in EY, much as they would love to be in EY! And the Kollel people I know in EY struggle much more than the ones in the US! In the US, you never have to worry about food, because you can live on food stamps if you qualify. In general, people in EY have way less money and have a much harder time financially. That’s why so many people from EY go to the US to collect money; you never find Americans collecting money in EY!
Regarding the government cuts, for many people, that was the money that was paying for food for their babies. The government literally took food from babies’ mouths, without giving anyone an opportunity to find another way to feed them!
But, if you are going to be poor, it is definitely MUCH more geshmak to be poor in Eretz Yisrael where there is so much more ruchnius, so you don’t need the gashmius as much!!!
Hear hear.
🙂 Feeling so lucky to be here!
CA: “No problem!
If you want I could start more ;)”
Sure! I love attention (as long as it’s positive) 🙂
Sparkly – you’re missing the point. The point is that it is Halacha. As I’ve told you before, Halacha does not change just because you were able to find someone who calls himself a Rabbi and does not accept Halacha.
If this “Rabbi” says that you don’t have to cover your hair, he is not an Orthodox Rabbi and people who follow him are not Orthodox and you should not be dating them!!!