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Thanks, LF.
Another condition is that there must be no other way to accomplish the same purpose. That was CERTAINLY NOT the case here!! If you read my posts, you will see that I accomplished the same purpose without having to resort to Motzi Shem Ra. I put a lot of thought into my post and phrased things very carefully so that I would accomplish this purpose without Motzi Shem Ra.(Which by the way, Moderators, was the reason for all the detail).
I think that my post did the job quite well, and most of the other posts following were both unnecessary and assur (and probably unhelpful as well).
This may be difficult to hear but there are other opinions besides yours that we abide by. I appreciate your confidence, however I cannot rely on you for direction.
writersoul – You are not seeing anything different than you saw yesterday. The post was there when you responded to it, and it is there now, but it had been deleted at some point either before that or in between.
We are talking about the post that you responded to. The moderators had deleted it at some point, but put it back because you responded to it.
I wish someone would pay attention to its contents, since the moderators won’t let me do so.
Thanks for the definition. I don’t think I have to worry about that.Boruch Hashem, I think I am self-confident enough not to let myself believe a lie about myself.
lightbrite – the point is that if it’s the wife salary that is supporting the family, if there are two wives, then there is double the salary.
And there are not twice as many people, since there is still only one husband. There are no more than double the number of children – in fact there would probably be less than double the number of children.
And the house does not need to be twice as big. (and even if it did, a house that is twice as big should not cost double). You would still only need one of most things – one kitchen, one fridge, one stove, one oven, one washing machine, one dryer, etc.
You could save on babysitting costs since they could take turns.
And most things end up being cheaper per person when you have more people. It would be kind of like the opposite of a divorce situation. Divorces are expensive because you have to maintain two households for one family. Here, you only have to maintain one household for two families, so it should come out cheaper.
Oh, and btw, I think it was a joke (one that I have heard before).
It’s assur.
“He could have realized that his conversion had some kind of glitch and he needs to commit more to his learning.
There could have been a family emergency, one that his rabbi was not permitted to disclose due to stigma.”
Lightbrite – great svaras. Shkoyach!
I was also thinking that he could have had some kind of medical condition.
lightbrite – Thanks. but still, no one has paid attention to it, which I am very sad about. I’m not sure what gaslighted means, but many of my posts were deleted. I had to be deliberately very vague in that post so they would let it go through.
We are talking about throwing food (onto something, such as the ground). When you do kapparos, you don’t throw the chickens onto anything.
I’ve never done kapparos with chickens, so I have no idea what happens to the chickens, but it seems to me that they are not really wasted because they were used for kapparos so they WERE used for something – a Mitzvah.
I never heard before that Goyim get offended by being called non-Jew. I would guess that it’s unusual and not something to be concerned about. I could be wrong but I don’t think they get insulted by Goy either as long as it’s not used in a bad way. The term “Shabbos Goy” is a very used term, and I have never heard of a goy who minded being called a “Shabbos Goy”.
“If you don’t want to read them then I guess you don’t read newspapers either for fear of hearing gossip or slander.”
There is a halachic problem with reading newspapers since they usually contain Loshon Hora about Jews (see my Shmiras Halashon thread).
The Mishna Brurah says it’s fine.
Abba_S : you may not realize this but your post is Motzi Shem Ra as Lavender knows who the guy is.
“Just joining the other speculations already posted, some with even more detail.”
I didn’t presume to know the exact reason and to be “choshed b’ksheirim” as to the guy’s exact issue. I made it very clear that there can be many possibilites and was melamed zchus that it he may not in fact have any kind of real problem!
More importantly, I was not Motzi shem ra on the guy by saying that he was dating for no reason, and in fact was very careful to be “melamed zchus” on him regarding his intentions.
I think that halachically you have a chiyuv to take down Abba_s’s post as it is motzi shem ra (since Lavender knows who the guy is). Yes, there are other such posts and maybe they should be deleted as well.
Of course you know the reason the guy broke it off even though you don’t know who he is.
Just joining the other speculations already posted, some with even more detail.
Golfer – nice! good reminder!
Shopping – you could post the link if you really want to.
FIF- it’s the Rabbi’s number she doesn’t have.
Thank you Meno for the push to look it up and cite the source.
The halachos of not throwing food are found in the Shulchan Aruch Siman 171, seif 1.
It says there that you are not allowed to throw bread, and you are not allowed to throw other foods that get ruined when you throw them, but you are allowed to throw other foods (meaning anything but bread) if it something that does not get ruined when it is thrown such as nuts or pomegranates.
The Mishna Berurah there (s”k 10 & 11) explains that you can’t throw something such as figs because they are soft and will get mushed and t/f ruined when they are thrown, but nuts and pomegranates are okay because they are hard and do not get mushed when they are thrown.
I don’t think that apples get mushed when they are thrown. They clearly remain edible since the Chassidim eat them. So it seems that this whole thing is completely muttar and there is NO basis for saying it is assur.
MDG – maskim. plus it’s very possible that it is something that he is not allowed to reveal or would be hurtful to someone.
MDG – public knowledge does not make it muttar. See my thread on Shmiras Halashon. For more details, see the “Chofetz Chaim”. The Chofetz Chaim basically rejects the idea that public knowledge makes it muttar, since there are so many conditions required that are basically impossible to fulfill.
MDG – thanks!
“Governments aren’t Jewish, let alone frum Jews.”
I actually have no idea what Wikileaks is. I assumed it was about people. Jews are Jews whether or not they are Frum.
Kids who grow up in EY probably don’t even know what Halloween is.
I think “Noachide” is usually only used for people who keep the 7 Mitzvos b’nei Noach.
Would she have preferred “goy”? I think I remember hearing that Arafat found that term offensive.
This thread reminds me of a funny story I overheard someone tell her a friend one Purim.
She was a teacher in a not-Frum or very modern school. On Rosh Chodesh Adar, the kids come to school dressed up. One girl was wearing normal clothes, so she asked her, “Aviva, why didn’t you dress up?” Aviva responded, “I am dressed up. I’m dressed as a ‘Dosi’ (frummy).”
I guess one person’s clothes are another person’s costume! It’s actually a sad story, but it was also funny.
Reuven – good point.
“Even for Ashkenazim R”G doesn’t apply to activities of gentiles.”
If they are Jewish, it would be a problem.
Sfardim are allowed to read other people’s mail?
Before Rabbeinu Gershom came along, was it really muttar to read other people’s mail?
Did Rabbeinu Gershom only assur opening mail? What if a letter is lying around?
Meno – true. I just don’t know anything about any research/sources on the topic, and it’s possible that it’s true. Of course, then it could also apply to much Jewish music (which the writer might have been including in the term “goyish music”). Loud music has definitely been shown to be bad for one’s hearing.
But you’re right – that is not the ikar reason to not listen to goyish music, in any event!
Or it could have been posted, then deleted, then posted. Is that what happened?
And that is one of the nice things about living in EY! Since most Frum people don’t live in Tel Aviv. Even in Lakewood, you know when it’s Halloween.
And Purim (l’havdil) and all the Yomim Tovim are very different in EY than in chu”l. No comparison!
Takahmamash – I don’t spend too much time in Tel Aviv (and certainly not in bars). It is definitely possible to live in EY and not know about Halloween.
btw, what IS Halloween? (j/k).
But I don’t know when it is, and I wouldn’t have remembered that it is this time of year if not for this thread.
Meno – maybe it’s true. I don’t see why not.
“Actually, that is exactly what happened. I chose to give writersoul’s post context.”
Maybe there is more than one Moderator at work here. But someone had written that he/she didn’t understand how writersoul could be commenting on a post that he/she had deleted. I don’t think that Writersoul has Ruach Hakodesh, so the post must have been published BEFORE she wrote her post.
Clearly the post had been deleted and then posted (by someone else) and THEN WriterSoul responded, and then the original Moderator (who had deleted the post) was questioning how Writer Soul could be commenting on a post he had deleted. If the same moderator chnaged his mind, I think he would have know about it.
flatbusher – I don’t think that’s what is going on here. I think he had concerns (possibly the whole time) but he really liked Lavender so he pushed them to the back of his head. Once it really got to the point of commitment, he had to confront those issues and he realized they really were a problem. However, he really liked her so it was hard for him to break up with her. He spoke to his Rav who gave him the chizuk he needed to break up with her. It was still a really hard thing for him to do, and it made it easier to say it came from his Rav (which was the truth in any case).
What the issues were is anybody’s guess,and there is no way to know. It could be something about him that really has nothing to do with her, but it was easier for him to say, “We are very different”. Or maybe his point was that since he has some kind of issue, he needs someone with a similar issue. Or maybe he feels there are personality or hashkafa differences that he doesn’t want to discuss.
What is important for you to remember, Lavender, is that he clearly really did like you to the point that he came very close to marrying you and would have done so if not for the fact that there were logical reasons why it was not a good idea. In fact, he liked you so much that it was very hard for him to break up and he needed his Rav’s chizuk.
I also do think that there is a very strong possibility that the issue has to do with him and not with you. Especially since if it had to do with you, you would probably have some sense of what it is which you don’t. Unlike some of the other posters, I don’t think he is unstable, but there are all sorts of “issues” a person can have without being “unstable”, and there is really no way to know what it is.
As others have said, try to be thankful that Hashem has spared you, although it is hard right now. Try to find some kind of worthwhile and/or enjoyable pursuit to “throw yourself into” so you don’t obsess over him. You have just spent the last 6 weeks on this guy; now you have time for other things. Use that time in a way that will help you to eventually be thankful that you now have time for other pursuits.
Hatzlacha Rabba!
What’s wrong with saying that most people in the world are crazy? Don’t you think that’s the case?
“Or maybe I changed my mind..” That clearly was not the case based on what you wrote before and have since deleted 🙂
Actually, that is exactly what happened. I chose to give writersoul’s post context.
Moderators – you see it’s not kidai to delete my posts, because Hashem makes sure they get seen anyhow :)! Actually, I see that the post she is referrring to did go through although when I checked before it had been deleted. Maybe the Ultimate Moderator is moderating your moderation?
Or maybe I changed my mind…
Writersoul – I think you should read the other posts on the thread that Joe quoted. It might give you a very different perspective regarding what his point was. And if you could also bring some of the quotes here in order to present a more well-rounded view of the topic of women in Judaism, I would very much appreciate it.
lightbrite – if you are talking about a Gadol Hador, I think you should listen 100%. Otherwise, it depends on a lot of factors.
In this case, my impression (although I might be wrong) was that it wasn’t a matter of following his Rav blindly, but rather that he had concerns and wanted to break up and his Rav encouraged him to do so. I could be wrong. I guess my assumption is based on the fact that in order for his Rav to have known enough about the situation to advise him, he must have asked his Rav for advice.
I live in EY. No one has heard of halloween. Maybe you should move here.
MDG: “He is 30 and already lived in 3 different countries on his own.” Sounds a little unstable.”
I have to disagree with that. Older singles often end up moving/travelling around, and it is actually probably a good idea. Also we don’t know where he is from. If he is from Europe or any other country besides the US or EY, it makes sense that he may have spent time in both EY & the US for shidduchim, etc.
Also, he is a convert in addition to being an older single, so that also puts things in a different perspective.
Gofish, if you look at the rest of the thread that is quoted at the beginning of this thread, there are other sources quoted that present a very different point of view. I think it would be a good idea if someone could bring those quotes in here in order to present the more-balanced view you are looking for.
LF- he was talking to me. That’s why I thought it didn’t make sense. When he speaks to another man, it makes sense to say “my wife” in order to create a boundary between his wife and the other man.
But when he is speaking to another girl, adraba, the distance is supposed to be between him and her and not between him and his wife. So I felt like it was creating the opposite of the intended effect. L’maaseh, I don’t think it was a big deal since I understood what his intention was in saying “my wife”, but I just personally thought it would have been MORE tznius for him to refer to his wife by her first name when speaking to another girl. Maybe when he spoke to me, he shouldn’t have used my name. Or better yet, maybe he shouldn’t have spoken to me at all. But I thought this way was a bit funny and self-defeating.
Moderators, I just saw that you let one of my posts go through. Thank you for that.
“No Loshon Hora may be said from the time you wake up till the time you go to bed”. Speaking about Am Yisrael as a whole or a group within Am Yisrael is worse than speaking about an individual.
“Why do some users just assume that all moderators are male?”
Where do you see that?
You’re welcome. There was at least one other post which was deleted which is very unfortunate since I think it would have helped clarify matters for everyone.
Maybe I’ll try to rephrase it when I have a chance. Basic point was that I think everyone is misunderstanding everyone.