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it’s possible, although I don’t know enough to say for sure. The only thing I know about Tomer Devora is that I subbed there one day many years ago. I was impressed by the girls – I thought they seemed very growth-oriented. at least by that point in the year – this was January, and I don’t know how they started out. But that was one day many years ago, so it doesn’t tell you much.
I don’t know you and I don’t have a clear picture of what you are looking for. Based on what you know, do you think that TD is more your type or DB?
My understanding of “Schar Mitzvos b’hai alma leika” based on the way I learned about it many years ago is along the lines of what Sam2 wrote.
Basically, the real schar is in olam haba, but at the same time we see that there is a concept of schar in this world (as seen in Krias Shema “V’nasati matar arstzichem b’ito”) which has to be explained in light of “schar Mitzvos b’hai alma leika”.
I think the explanation I learned was that if you do Mitzvos, Hashem might give you things to make it easier for you to continue doing Mitzvos. Like if He sees You are using your money for worthwhile purposes, He may give you more money. So it’s not really your schar per se’, it’s to help you to continue doing Mitzvos.
Sam2’s explanation sounds like a good explanation as well, and it fits in with the above. It’s a somewhat similar idea.
I have also learned that one of the reasons for “tzadik v’ra lo, rasha v’tov lo” (Righteous people sometimes suffer in this world and wicked people sometimes have it good) is that Hashem wants to give the wicked person his reward in this world so that he won’t get a reward in the World – to- come, whereas He “punishes” the righteous people in this world so that they won’t have to be punished in the World-to-come.
So it would seem that there is a concept of punishment in this world. However, it is for our good and is for the purpose of “cleansing” our Neshamas so that we won’t have to be punished in the next world.
For that matter, the punishment in gehinom is also for our good and for the purpose of cleansing our souls, but it is much better to receive the punishment here since any suffering in this world can not begin to compare to the suffering in Gehinnom.
Also, the purpose of suffering in this world (punishment or not) is always to help you to be a better person while you are still in this world and have a chance to grow. Even if you don’t feel like it’s bringing you closer to Hashem, and even if you feel like it is bringing you further from Hashem, it always has a positive impact on your neshama.
I think it’s probably much more extreme than a baal teshuva. The vast majority of baalei teshuva do not stop being Frum and do not face the temptation to do so. On the other hand, my impression is that a recovered addict is never out of danger, and the temptation is always there.
Also, if they give in to their yetzer hora at all, they are in serious trouble. Whereas, in the case of a baal teshuva, if he gives in to his yetzer hora, he is no different than the rest of us who give in to their yetzer horas on occasion.
Sorry for not answering the question yet – I haven’t had a chance to look into yet, but I haven’t forgotten about it.
Let me know if you have other specific questions, and I can try to find out for you.
I don’t know much about it, and what I do know is from years ago, but I am almost positive that it is not “very academic”.
I don’t know the exact hashkafa, but it is definitely not a BY. It probably is somewhere in the middle. I think that the girls are all from MO backgrounds. There are definitely staff members who are tzioni.
I know someone who either works there or used to work there. If you want, I can try to call her and find out more when I have a chance. But I don’t think I’ll be able to do it today.
Futuregirl – good idea.
I don’t have much to tell you. I don’t that much about B’eer Miriam. I was hoping that someone else would answer you. I hope someone answers you soon!
Have you considered Darchei Binah or Tomer Devora or MMY?
I heard from someone that most Jews in Israel who voted, voted for Trump.
Lightbrite – being out in the rain is not life-threatening for the vast majority of the population! (with the possible exception of people who are very elderly or ill). If it were, I would be dead 1,000 times. I don’t have a car, so I have to walk everywhere or wait at busstops for 15 minutes. It doesn’t bother me.
Even during the week, I almost never use an umbrella since I always lose or break them so I usually don’t bother.
Although once when I was walking in the rain in Lakewood, some avreich driving by had rachmanus on me and threw me an umbrella from his car window. It was really nice of him, but a bit embarrassing!
One of my Rebbeim once said that Hashem doesn’t punish; He corrects. Whatever Hashem does is because He loves us and is for our good.
So when bad things happen, whether or not it is as a “punishment”, it is not because Hashem “wants to hurt us” because He is mad at us for not being perfect. He loves us and understands us and knows that we are not perfect and are trying to do the right thing. Whatever He does is good for us and helps us to be closer to Him.
Lightbrite, I just looked back at your post and realize that there are some things I MUST comment on, despite the fact that I don’t know if you read my lengthy post yet:
“Also I guess what is most difficult to swallow is that I can basically, theoretically, increase in mitzvot on all fronts. Yet it won’t mean anything or indicate my Yiras Shamayim if I am un-tznius? I thought that each mitzvah has value, big or small we are not the judge of what’s most valuable to Hashem.”
Chas v’shalom that you should think that your each and every Mitzvah does not have tremendous value!!! You are right that every Mitzvah has value and we can’t judge what is most valuable to Hashem.
What we do know is that every little Mitzvah has tremendous value to Hashem – much more than we can ever imagine!
Focus on the positive – on the tremendous joy you bring Hashem with every little Mitzvah that you do. Every Mitzvah that you do has incomparable value to Hashem and you are bringing joy to the Shechina in a way that no one else can since no one else can do YOUR Mitzvos, and Hashem wants LIGHTBRITE’S Mitzvos, and no one else can do them!
Your weaknesses do NOT take away from your Mitzvos! We all have weaknesses, we all do aveiros, but that does not take away from our inherent Holiness and the Simcha we bring Hashem with each and every Mitzvah!
“You’re right when it comes to women; but the OP was talking about a guy!”
Why should it be different for men? I’m not saying I agree that it’s true for either, but if it’s true for one, why not for the other?
“According to many there are other instances where abortion would be mutar besides for a risk to the life of the mother (e.g. mamzeirus, debilitating illness/disabilities).”
I am far from an expert in the halachos of abortion, but my impression from what I’ve always heard was that it is only allowed when there is risk to the mother’s life, and that risk to the mother’s life can involve emotional health as well. In the cases you mentioned, if it’s allowed, it is because the mother’s emotional health is at stake.
I read a nice story in one of Rabbi Dr. Avraham Twersky’s books. He had a patient for whom it would have been dangerous to her emotional well-being to have a child, so she had something inserted to prevent conception (I was a bit lost on the technical details). Something went wrong, and she ended up conceiving. Ending the pregnancy in this case would have been a much simpler procedure than an abortion.
So he asked Rav Moshe Feinstein, zatsal, if it would be mutar for her to do this.
Rav Moshe Feinstein asked, “If she had household help, would she able to manage emotionally?”
Rabbi Dr. Twersky responded, “Yes, but she can’t afford it.”
So Rav Moshe responded, “In that case, the problem is not an emotional health issue; it is a financial issue. Go out and raise money for household help for her.”
kjchusid – Your intentions are admirable, but imho, it would have been more effective to quote more mainstream Gedolim (no disrespect meant chalila to the Satmar Rebbe), and to explain in your own words (respectfully, of course) why you have come to the conclusion that zionism is wrong. But I am not sure that this is an appropriate or effective forum for such a discussion in the first place. Also, I don’t think that referring to zionism as kefira is going to do much to convince someone who considers herself zionist that it’s wrong.
I guess that’s why the Coffee Room is called the Coffee Room – because it’s so addictive!
Yichusdik – also, please note that you apparently don’t consider my idealogy as stated above to be a genuine Torahdik outlook. Does that mean that your ahavas chinam is lacking? (I don’t think so, but according to you , it would be).
How did they know if women were shaving their heads?
The Coffee Room is also a drug and very addictive.
“It depends. If it’s a substance such as heroin, or a behavior such as hair-pulling, on severity of the addiction and on how long the person has been in recovery.”
It also depends whose hair they are pulling.
“Yes, but maybe she meant heroin.”
As opposed to what?
just want to add: if by “genuine Torah outlook” you mean that they are truly acting l’sheim shamayim and truly consider their outlook to be based on Torah then I would agree regarding Mercaz HaRav, but not necessarily all other places (and Mercaz haRav is not typical of the Religious-zionist world). In any case, that is not how I was defining the term.
“that your perspective becomes a reflection of ahavas chinom in this instance, as it so clearly has been in others.”
Thank you for the compliment! I disagree with your premise however. I am not stating my opinion on the hashkafa of Mercaz HaRav as I am not qualified to have an opinion on it, although I will say that from I know of the place, they are extremely ehrlich and Yarei Shamayim and definitely acting L’sheim Shamayim.
But in terms of your premise, I have to respectfully disagree. I think that there are Gedolim who would say that some of the philosophies and places within the Orthodox world are not genuine Torah philosophies, and therefore it would not be a problem for someone to say this. There are definitely schools that I have been involved with that I felt did things that were not based on a genuine Torah philosophy although they may have felt so.
I was once told by a certain chashuve Rav that I should stop working in a certain institution since he felt that they were doing things that he felt was problematic. He made sure to let me know that that didn’t mean that the place was passul just because there were certain things they were doing that were problematic (and in fact the only reason he told me to stop working there was because he thought it would be harmful for shidduchim.)
I think that your premise may be based on the Western concept of pluralism – there is an attitude that disagreement always involves sinah. I don’t think that is the Torah attitude. There have always been Gedolim who disagreed with other Gedolim and other approaches and did consider those people who adhered to them to be misled. It is possible for someone to have Yiras Shamayim and be a tzaddik and yet mistakenly think that a certain hashkafa is a Torahdik hashkafa.
I may be mistaken, but I am under the impression that many Gedolim would not consider zionism to be a Torahdik hashkafa, although they may consider many of its followers (such as those in Merkaz HaRav) to be Torahdik people and they would not consider Religious-Zionists to be “off the map” of the Orthodox world.
Just to be clear – I do not know with certainty that the Gedolim say this, although I think they do, so it should just be taken as an example (it also may depend on one’s definition of “zionism”).
I have always used the term intellectual honesty in reference to people who can acknowledge where their ideas are coming from, and are open-minded enough to realize that they may be biased and therefore are willing to consider another point of view.
Isn’t that the correct meaning of the term? How would you use it?
“I daven that those who have taken the opportunity to post attacks on the genuine Torahdik outlooks of those they disagree with will have the hashpo’oh of respect for God fearing and Torah observing ahavas chinom swiftly, instead of the opposite currently displayed, r’l.”
I am not sure what you are referring to, but I did not notice any sinas chinum on this thread. The fact that someone has a different opinion than you does not mean that they have any sinas chinam whatsoever, even if part of that opinion involves telling you that they think you are wrong (as long as it’s done respectfully).
And since it wasn’t, that might constitute sina
Also, I would not use the term “genuine Torahdik outlooks” as it is not always clear what outlooks can be considered genuine Torahdik outlooks. One person may consider something a genuine Torahdik outlook, but another person may not
“Depends what they were addicted to.”
I doubt she meant chocolate.
If your concern is that it is a chilul Hashem, doesn’t it become more of a chilul Hashem when you publicize it on the Internet?
It is Time for Truth – I know many who do, but I am not so comfortable discussing it. If it is okay for girls to learn Gemara, it is only with several conditions attached, and one of those is that it should be done b’tzina. In other words, it shouldn’t be a topic of conversation for the internet, imho.
But just to respond to your question, most girls can’t learn Gemara in depth, but that is not because they are not capable of it – it is because for hashkafic reasons, it is not considered an important thing for girls to learn, so even in those schools in which Gemara is taught, it is usually only taught as an optional side subject for the year of seminary. It is not considered one of the main courses, and it is not the subject that they are encouraged to continue learning after seminary.
Those girls/women who do consider Gemara learning to be important (whether rightly or wrongly) do continue learning Gemara in depth for several years and are quite capable of doing so. They can probably learn better than the average man because they are not the average women.
However, most girls/women feel that a girl’s time is better spent in other ways, so they do not spend any or much time on Gemara which is why they can’t learn it. But they may excel at Tanach or some other area of learning that they do consider to be more important.
I know several that do (with haskamos, in at least some cases), but I do not want to name them since it is may be avak l”h, as some posters may have negative opinions on the topic.
And would you want a president who does?
He is not hopeless. He just needs to marry someone who feels like they can handle his issues. Like I said, I know someone who married someone on medication (someone whom I had thought could not get married) and they had a great marriage. I think that was because he knew what he was getting into and he felt that he was capable of handling it, which he was. She had a baby and did have a nervous breakdown for a few weeks afterwards, but it didn’t shter him. He had understood what he was getting into and he was able and willing to handle it.
I suspect that part of the reason he married her might be that on the one hand he had certain things that may have made shidduchim hard for him, but those were not things that she cared about, and on the other hand, he was extremely emotionallly healthy and a very happy, chilled-out person, so he was able to deal with her issues. So basically, they were a good balance for each other.
No one is perfect, and everyone has to marry someone with imperfections. You just have to make sure that they are imperfections that you can deal with (even taking into account that every marriage requires work and acceptance).
Joseph – you have given examples of others learning from you. Do you feel that you have ever changed your view based on something someone said in the CR?
Do others feel that they have?
I feel that people have gotten chizuk and advice in the CR, but I wonder if anyone has ever changed their opinion because of a debate in the CR? I feel like most of the time, when posters debate, each person is focused on expressing his opinion, and it doesn’t seem like anyone ever changes their views based on what others say (or even tries to consider another point of view).
At least that is how it seems. So I would be interested in knowing if anyone feels differently.
Contribute to my Shmiras Halashon thread instead.
Regarding the Vitamin D myth, there was an article in the main section of YWN that you may want to read.
Lightbrite, when I wrote my original post, I had forgotten that you are baalas teshuva/becoming Frum. When I wrote my rant about tznius, I was primarily thinking about BY girls or girls who had a strong Yeshiva education and keep all the other halachos besides covering their knees, and used to cover their knees as well until it became the style to wear short skirts. I am talking about girls who think that if a girl is wearing pants it means that she is off the derech and meanwhile they are walking around in skirts that are far less tznius!
In your case, you didn’t grow up with hilchos tznius (from what I understand) and you didn’t grow up with a lot of other things either. When I worked in Neve Yerushalayim, they were very into telling girls to take things slowly, in baby steps. You are not supposed to take on too much at once!! If you do, it can backfire, chas v’shalom.
I once heard Rav Orlofsky speak about 9/11. He said that Rav Moshe Shapiro told him that it’s part of milchemes Gog U’Magog (the war preceding Mashiach) and that Mashiach is on the way. So he told him that he is working with a boy who is becoming Frum. He asked Rav Moshe Shapiro if he should push him to become Frum faster (since Moshiach might come before he is fully Frum). Rav Moshe Shapiro said “no”. The implication was that the boy is fine where he is – he is on the right path and that is enough.
All Hashem expects from us is to be on the right path. He wants us to grow in healthy, productive ways. In the introduction to Rav Bodner’s Sefer on Hilchos Brachos, there is a foreword by the Manchester Rav (or at least it quotes from him – I don’t remember if the whole thing was from him). He writes about how according to halacha, we are OBLIGATED to have kavana with each word of every bracha we make. This is a HALACHA – it is not a chumra! It is a halacha just like covering your knees is a halacha. But obviously, it is something that is almost impossible for everyone to do.
So he explains that the point is that we need to be on the right path. We have to work on this step by step. As long as we are working on ourselves and we have the goal in mind, that is all Hashem expects of us.
He gives a mashal which I might not be remembering 100%. But basically, a king tells his servant to climb a really high ladder. If the guy gives up and doesn’t even try, then the king will be mad at him. But if he sees that the guy is trying and taking one step at a time, even if it is a slow and lengthy process, he will be pleased with him because he sees that the guy is trying his best to reach the goal.
If you are in-between BY and MO, I would say that Darchei Binah (and possibly MMY) is a better choice than Shaalvim.
Michlalah is very far from being an out-of-town type of place.
Nice! not sure about the slow part – you seem to be progressing at a steady but reasonable rate judging from your posts.
lightbrite – I wrote my last post before I saw your last one. (btw, you may be reading this b4 my last post is posted. It is very long so will probably take a while to moderate).
In any case, regarding your last post, I am very surprised by this story. I think that it is probably very unusual. Everyone I know knows that drug and alcohol abuse are bad. This guy is probably suffering from denial. Either that or it is just desperation because he doesn’t know what to do and can’t deal with the situation. I would imagine that it is a very difficult situation to be in, and one which many may have a hard time dealing with. Different people probably react differently to different situations.
You are asking some very good questions, Lightbrite. I don’t know all of the answers. I think that most Jewish adults know about the effects of drug use even if they don’t know all of the details. It is hard not to know about it in a day and age when unfortunately, we constantly hear of kids o.ding. Also, there have been articles on the topic published in the Frum magazines.
There was an article (I think in Mishpacha, but it could have been Binah) last year about drug abuse. The article did describe the effects, and I learned a lot of things from it that I had not necessarily been aware of. For example, it discused the issue of brain damage. There were interviews with kids who had been drug abusers and were now “clean” but had suffered irreparable damage.
So there definitely is a lot of awareness in recent years, at least as far as the adults. In terms of the kids, I do not know whether or not the schools teach it. I think that nowadays, everyone knows about kids-at-risk and drugs, etc. No matter how insulated kids are, it is pretty hard not to be aware of these issues nowadays.
I do not know whether or not kids know about all of the specific damages and effects caused by drugs. BUT, everyone knows that they are seriously problematic. And in the Frum world, it is a given that it is considered BAD to take drugs. The only kids who use drugs in the Frum world are kids with major issues who are taking the drugs out of desperation.
I am pretty sure that these kids know how bad drugs are, and that a course explaining how bad they are would not help. I was at a bus stop once, and a teenage boy (who appeared to be at-risk) was smoking. An elderly lady pointed out to him that smoking is unhealthy. His response was “Lady, I am not smoking because I think it is healthy.”
Frum kids do not take drugs because they think they are healthy. They take drugs out of desperation because they have problems that are not being resolved.
The Frum world is dealing with this issue by trying to find ways to resolve their problems as well as to take preemptive measures so that these problems don’t come about in the first place. Mentoring programs, therapy, educational help, etc. are the ways that the Frum world is trying to resolve these problems.
In terms of alcohol abuse, both adults and kids are aware of the problems. That is why most Frum people generally refrain from too much alchohol use, and only use it on specific occasions, and even then it is generally pretty limited.
Those are the answers to your questions to the best of my knowledge.
“Indeed there were women in Jewish history who were leaders.”
As I pointed out above, according to Halacha, there are different types of positions, some of which are forbidden and some of which aren’t. I think that women might not be allowed to be president. On the other hand, they are allowed to be Nevios and Poskos like Chulda and Devora.
I think the reason that women are not allowed to be Rabbis is based on this halacha (that women are not allowed to have leadership positions).
In any case, I don’t know whether or not this would be a reason not to vote for Hillary since she is a goy, but I don’t think it’s a crazy idea. Not necessarily because there is a halachic issue involved but because the same reasoning could POSSIBLY apply here.
“Why attend a beis minis instead of going to a actual Jewish school,it’s assur to daven in a place with a Israeli flag and questionable if one may enter at all,so why attend such a heretical place?”
I think that is only if you are Satmar. I am pretty sure that there have been completely acceptable places that have had the Israeli flag for whatever reason, and very shtark people davened in these places.
Imho, you should not make blanket statements stating that something is assur unless you know that it is completely true according to all acceptable opinions and can back it up with sources. I actually would be interested in knowing if you have a source for such a statement.
That being said, I agree that one should not davka choose a school based on the fact that it is zionist.
Nava, I agree with writersoul that Midreshet Tehila might be worth looking into. I don’t know enough about it, but I think that it is similar to some of the schools you mentioned. Other possbilities may be Maor, Ateres, Peninim (now called N’eimos, I think) and Bnos Avigail.
It would help to have a better idea of what you are looking for in a seminary. Also, what kind of background are you coming from? The three schools you mentioned are not usually mentioned together (at least not all 3), which is not a problem – I’m just trying to get a better idea of what you are looking for. On what basis did you narrow things down to these three?
The two things they have in common are: 1. warm atmospheres and 2. growth-oriented. So I am assuming those are important to you.
I am familiar with all three schools. They are all great schools and I would recommend all of them (in general – obviously it depends on the person and I don’t know you). They all have very warm atmospheres and are very growth-oriented. MMY is much more academic than the others and you have to be prepared to work hard. I know that MMY gets really good girls (or at least they used to, and I am assuming it is still the case). I don’t know about the other two. I would assume that it’s true of the others as well, but I don’t know enough.
Writer-soul did a great job of describing the schools. I would just add a few corrections, with the qualification that my information may not be completely up-to-date, but I am pretty sure that it is still fairly accurate. For one thing, I would not describe MMY as completely MO. They have teachers with different hashkafos and they do not push a specific hashkafa. Most of the teachers are Dati-Leumi but there are some who are Chareidi, and there are students who have become Chareidi there. However, it is rare for a student from a Bais Yaakov high school to go there.
Last I heard, MMY was an extremely warm place, and it is hard for me to imagine that has changed.
One major difference between Shaalvim and MMY is that Shaalvim does not have ANY Chareidi teachers, and MMY does. And that is updated information since it is something that I happened to have looked into recently. Also, if you check out Shaalvim’s website, it is EXTREMELY tzioni and seems to be much more definitively MO than MMY. (I actually would not have used the word MO to describe MMY – I would have described it as closer to Chardal, but I have the impression that the term MO might be used differently today than it used to be).
What are legal drugs? Tylenol?
KJ +1
“So you believe that whether a potential shidduch match is diabetic or not should not be factor whether someone dates or marries him/her, correct?”
Was that said in response to me or to RY? I didn’t say that (as you can see from one of my above posts that was probably not posted yet when you posted yours).
I was just trying to understand why the sugar restriction should be a factor.
Another important thing to look into before making this decision: Find out if it is heriditary and how heriditary it is. If it is heriditary, you should think carefully about whether or not you would be able to handle kids who have anxiety issues. Yes, I realize that in any case, you don’t know how your kids will turn out, but if there is a likely chance that most or all of your kids will have anxiety problems and that is something that you can’t handle, that is something to think about.
I know people who got divorced because of shalom bayis problems arising from the fact that their wives and most of their kids had ADHD. I don’t know all of the details, and anxiety may be very different from ADHD, but it is kidai to look into it before making a decision, imho.
Personally, I avoid going out with people who are more intense than I am because I think it would be a really bad idea for me, since I am very intense and I think I need someone more chilled than me. So that is why I certainly wouldn’t want to marry someone with anxiety issues.
The person I know who married someone on medication was a really chilled-out person, so that may be the reason that he was able to deal with it.
“I don’t think it’s that different from diabetes.”
Some people won’t go out with someone who has diabetes.
In any case, they are two different things. One is a physical ailment, and one is a personality/psychological ailment. There are some people who would not go out with someone with diabetes but would go out with someone who has anxiety, and others who would not go out with someone who has anxiety but would go out with someone who has diabetes. They both are reasonable decisions. Each person has to know himself and has to know which things are an issue for him.
Of course, we don’t want to create a situation in which anyone who has some kind of issue can’t get married. But that doesn’t have to be the case. Everyone has to think carefully about which things would be a problem for him personally and which things wouldn’t. For every issue that a person can have, there is someone who would go out with people who have that issue (unless the problem is one that renders him unmarriageable). The important thing is that one should be honest with himself and not be acting on prejudice on the one hand but at the same time, not to be so open-minded that he does something stupid.