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I think anyone who has any suggestions for Futuregirl regarding seminaries should go to the other thread she started entitled “Baer Miriam”. That is where that discussion is continuing. and other topics should stay here or go elsewhere.
Thanks!
Maybe BM is more for you then. Or Shaalvim might make sense – I don’t know if it’s Outoftownish or not.
“TD seems fairly Bais Yaakov type, according to the majority of the girls in the video at least. Not tzioni type people, so I’m not sure:)”
On the website (I believe it was in the FAQ section), it did mention that they are open to girls celebrating Yom HaAtzmaut and take those that are interested to Merkaz HaRAv.
You can’t avoid danger in this world. Do you know that from the second a baby is born, he is in danger of the greatest tragedy and that every second that goes by puts him more and more in danger of it?
That tragedy is called death. It happens to everyone who is born, and every second brings you closer to it.
The point is that obviously a person must take reasonable precautions in life, but you should never allow a fear of death to prevent you from living.
Driving is very dangerous and yet I never heard of anyone who refused to drive or allow his child in a car because of the dangers involved.
The question is: “what is considered appropriate and necessary hishtadlus in this case, and to what extent will it inhibit the child’s natural sense of freedom to keep him on a leash?
“What are you going to do with the residue after you finish painting and what are you going to do with the pot? This is a very expensive and hazardous way of making paint.”
Why is it dangerous? What can happen? How is ink dangerous?
because there are a lot of girls in the world, Boruch Hashem! I think it’s about half the population, actually.
And seminary is one of the two most important decisions a girl makes in her life (it’s a debate which of the two is most important).
neither did I. glad you could admit it first, lf
5. Also, many mothers are overly-dependent on their daughters’ help. This is usually particularly true of the oldest girl in a family. I feel that those girls really need a chance to get away, have a break, have a chance to do what they want to do and not always be busy helping their families, and have a chance to develop a sense of self.
It is also good for their mothers to learn how to manage without their daughters.
1. There are very few seminaries in the US. The few that there are for a certain type/types, and for many girls, there is nothing in the US that is their type. I know girls whose parents didn’t let them go to US for sem, so they had to go in the States, but there was nothing at all matim for them.
2. Person1 – Israeli girls are not considered to be “going to seminary” the way that American girls do. In the Israeli BY system, seminary is a continuation of high school. You learn in the same school, and it is called ?-?, since it is just the fifth and sixth years of high school. The basic difference is that you have a “maslul” (major) but that makes it college, not seminary.
3. A big part of the seminary year is to be in a dorm – to grow in independence, to learn from other girls, etc. Also, if you are talking about a girl who is really trying to change, it is usually easier to do so away from her home and old environment.
4. Most importantly, as Shopping said: “Israel is where we all belong…(see post above)”
The question isn’t “why are you going to seminary in EY?” but why are you in the US in the first place??!! We are all supposed to be in EY all the time, presumably anyone who lives in chu”l, it is only because there are reasons why they feel they have no choice, but we have a chiyuv to live in EY as much as we can, so at least for the first year of adulthood, one should start off in EY, even if they can’t stay longer.
I would also guess that there are many people who ended up living here post-marriage becase of their year in EY. It is very hard to move to EY post-marriage, and it can be very hard for the girls whose chasans are learning, and they don’t know anyone and don’t have any kind of social setting,etc. I would imagine that it is much easier for those girls who already spent a year here, so they know people here and they know their way around, etc. It is very different to move to a place that you have never been to before and to move somewhere where you already spent a year and are very familiar with.
“Unwind… Hey! If you know how to post here (I doubt you do), why not try it…”
lol.I thought about suggesting that, but since they are trying to go off of tv/movies, I wasn’t sure if I felt comfortable suggesting they spend more time online.
It wasn’t a game; I had thought it was obvious, but I guess I was wrong. It happens sometimes.
I was impressed by the following:
1. That you responded to me politely.
2.That you realize that there is nothing wrong with having disagreements, and it’s what people do to resolve them. That is a very important concept, and one that not everyone realizes. I would assume that it is essential for marriage in particular.
Moderators – I am wondering if some of the above comments could possibly cause hatred to Am Yisrael by the Goyim.
I would just like to respectfully request that all posters please try to keep in mind that this debate is not academic. We are talking about a real situation involving a real person (who could even be reading this or have friends, family, acquaintances or enemies who are).
Please try to keep that in mind as you post. Thank you!
thanks for answering the question.
can you give examples? or is that too personal a question?
The Midrash Says is written by a lady. I forgot her name, but Weissman sounds familiar. It’s possible she wrote it under her husband’s name.
Since it was published in the 70’s or 80’s (I think – I know it was out by 1984), it makes sense that she would have published it under her husband’s name.
I know some of her relatives – that’s how I know she wrote it, even though I forgot her name.
Thanks for the reminder. When I first joined the CR, it took some time until I figured out that you are supposed to choose a category, so the first few times I started threads, they automatically went to decaffeinated coffe.
I would imagine that happens to others as well, so thanks for the reminder.
Futuregirl – thanks for giving me a clearer picture of what you are looking for. It defintely makes it easier for me to make suggestions, and it is also easier to avoid LH, since I can just tell you if I think a school sounds right for YOU without having to say anything negative about a school.
Have you had a chance to check out TD’s website? It sounds to me like it fits what you are looking for.
I’m not sure if B’aer Miriam would be right for you in terms of academics, so you may want to check that out.
I would also think that DB could be a possibility. But I don’t know enough about what the student body is like and if the girls are out-of-townish enough. Writergirl would probably know something like that. It is not small, but it is very warm.
“It reads in many ways like a late medieval/early modern version of the “Medrash says” type books, which are very popular (and which I suspect were based on, or at least heavily influenced, by it).”
I can’t imagine they were based on it. I’ve been told by relatives of the author of “The Medrash Says” that she is super-intellectual. She does tons of learning and research for her Sefarim. That is what she does the whole day – researches Medrashim for her Sefarim.
That being said – it’s possible that she was influenced by it.
What is Tzena U’rena based on? Is it Medrashim or Mefarshim? Does it bring sources? Just curious.
Writersoul, I wanted to clarify something that may not be clear from my above posts: You wrote: “One thing- first you say “many gedolim” might not agree with Zionism, then you say “the gedolim.” Wouldn’t that itself- the implication that some of “the gedolim” might not be as against Zionism as “
I did not mean to imply that there are Gedolim who are in favor of zionism. I was deliberately trying to be vague and state things in such a way that leaves room for either possibility (that there may be some Gedolim who advocate zionism or there may be none.) This was partly because I am not 100% what Daas Torah is on the topic, and I did not want to make a definitive statement about something that I am not 100% sure of.
Also, I was not really interested in getting into an anti-zionist debate. Amongst other things, these types of debates can be unpleasant and sound like attacking, etc, and I hate arguments, and only engage in them when I feel it is necessary. After reading your post, I felt it necessary to state my views. But I sincerely hope that nothing I wrote came across as attacking (I can’t imagine it did, but if it did, I apologize as it was completely unintentional).
Again, I do not claim to have all the answers on the topic, and it is entirely impossible that I am mistaken about some of the things I wrote. This is simply my general understanding of the topic, and I do not claim to be an expert on it.
bump
Snooper, yasher koach for trying to give up tv/movies! That must be really hard and is a tremendous zchus! In the zchus of your giving up tv/movies, may Hashem help you to find enjoyable ways to unwind!
Amen! And may it be a kapara for Am Yisrael!
Moderators – why are you still up? It’s way past your bed-time!
check out the TD website when you have a chance and the video of the girls describing the school. Amongst other things, the girls definitely seem very out-of-townish to me.
I thought I saw an english translation about 30 years ago. But it could have been hebrew. It was definitely one of those 2 languages.
“I understand you are a bit freaked-out – so am I, but I am certainly not to blame.”
“freaked out? About what? His posts are old news.”
This Neturei-karta bit was news to me. I thought it was news to you too. I thought that was why you allowed my posts and his posts to go through – I thought you also wanted to show that his hashkafas are not Torah-based.
“I am not blaming you for his posts, I am disturbed by your explanation of your actions”
As I said, you clearly must have misunderstood what I meant. I understand what you think I meant, but it is too complicated to explain what I really meant. Since I see that that post has been misunderstood, I would appreciate it if you could please delete it as others will probably misunderstand it as well.
I apologize for not being able to see how that post would be taken, and will try to put more effort in the future into figuring out how people will understand things.
I will just again repeat: I definitely did not mean what you thought I meant! What I meant was something that there would have been no reason for anyone to be upset about.
I understand you are a bit freaked-out – so am I, but I am certainly not to blame.
freaked out? About what? His posts are old news.
“there is certainly what to feel bad for’
So why did you post them? It was your choice not to delete. You gave a reason to Moshe why you didn’t delete them, and now you are blaming me?
I am not blaming you for his posts, I am disturbed by your explanation of your actions
“lol? Is using someone and pushing them to say sick things so that you can prove a point funny? I find that somewhat disturbing”
I did not mean that the way you took it. I wrote that because I was trying to lighten the mood, because it was getting a little intense around here, and I’ve been criticized in the CR for being too intense. But whatever – you can delete that post if you think it will be misunderstood.
And I wasn’t “using anyone”. I was not the one who brought up Neturei Karta. And I think it’s better to have that out in the open and know who he is and what point he is trying to make, than for him to keep posting these pointless rants that get everyone upset. Now we know what he is about about.
And it was your choice to post these posts.
You were clear what you meant. And he has been posting this same drivel over and over for a long time. Nothing new is out in the open. And your last line, seriously? Blaming Chava for the apple?
Although I do feel a bit bad for pushing him to say those things.
there is certainly what to feel bad for
“Why does this sicko have a voice on Yeshiva World!?”
“I often delete but since it is only the three of you I thought I would let it through and see if you had anything to say. Even just to say not to bother. Sometimes a good response is healthy reading”
sorry for pushing him – I really just wanted to make my point for the other post:
lol. I’ll do anything to prove my point. In any event, no one will accept what he wrote anyhow, and all it accomplished was to discredit him.
lol? Is using someone and pushing them to say sick things so that you can prove a point funny? I find that somewhat disturbing
As I was saying, I don’t see how you can say that every hashkafa is Torah-based:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/aliyah-day-is-a-zionist-scam#post-634163
Where do you live (as in what time zone)?
Also, other than Mashiach’s coming (which hopefully will be today, B”EH, and render this entire topic academic), how would it be possible for the State of Israel (which is what I assume you meant) to be wiped off the map speedily and peacefully?
You still haven’t answered my question, kj.
“From the Noda B’Yehuda it seems that there doesn’t need to be a pressing need to be mattir on the road, just the fact that you don’t have an alternative makes it an automatic b’dieved situation.”
So according to this, I would assume that the reason why travelling was the only thing mentioned on the Star-K website is as I stated above. If you are not travelling, how would you have a situation where Starbucks is THE ONLY option? If you are at home, you have your own kitchen, but if you are travelling, you do not.
I want to know what KJ believes.
So does that mean that if the only way to dismantle the State is to make a deal with Chamas and hand it over to them, you would do so?
Does that mean that you want the Arabs to take over Israel (not exactly sure what Neturei Karta believes -that is why I am asking)?
Futuregirl – I just reread your original post where you describe what you are looking for. Sorry, I had forgotten what you had written. Based on what you wrote, it sounds to me like Tomer Devora might be a better fit for you than B’aer Miriam. I am basing that on TD’s website compared with what I heard about B’aer Miriam and to some extent their website.
Based on what you say you are looking for in your opening post, my impression is that TD might be a better fit in terms of both academics and Frumkeit level.
Futuregirl, I have a few questions for you:
1. Are you looking for something Academic, in the middle or chill?
2. Are you looking for a school where the girls are more modern or more Frum (I’m not talking about hashkafa, but about Frumkeit)?
3. The term out-of-town has various definitions. What do you mean by it? (some possible meanings are: not-Jappy/materialistic, not-so-Yeshivish, warm, good Middos, friendly/not-cliquey, etc.)
I’m just asking because it would make it easier to advise you about seminaries if I have a better idea of what you are looking for. Also, I don’t want to say something about a school that could be LH and I’d rather avoid comparing schools. It’s easier to avoid that if I understand better what you are looking for.
Thanks!
I guess the moderators are making up for last night. It’s really late in America!
Writersoul – assumptions are usually based on facts, as they were in this case. The assumption was not that no one would vote for Hillary (adraba, I think many people were very torn this election- as in torn by who not to vote for), but that more Frum people would vote for Trump than for Hillary (if they voted).
In my case, I was making that assumption based on a certain fact that I don’t want to mention online.
Since it’s a “women’s sefer”, my guess is that it was written in the days when women didn’t know how to learn, and that’s why it is not popular today.
not at all – at least not in any circles I’ve ever been in. I wouldn’t know about Chassidish circles.
I think it was popular at one time in Europe. I have never heard of anyone in the US or Israel using it.
okay, the information you have been waiting for:
First of all, I would like to recommend that you check out the websites of any seminary you are looking into. You can find out a lot that way, I think. In particular, it is a good way to find out how the girls dress (not the dress code itself – but how they actually dress), since they have pictures of the girls.
You can also find out if the school in tzioni (on B’aer Miriam’s website, there are a lot of pictures of the Israeli flag, on Tomer Devora’s website, they talk about Yom HaAtzmaut options, for example).
Regarding B’aer Miriam:
1. It is very small. As of a few years ago, they generally had app. 30-50 girls a year.
2. They have a really good, warm staff who really care about the girls.
3. Very out-of-town school.
4. The school is tzioni. The administration is tzioni.
5. The teachers are a mix of Chareidi and Dati-Leumi.
6. The focus is on teaching Yiras Shamayim, not “hashkafic politics”.
7. They set girls up for Shabbos. I think all schools do, btw.
8. dress code = cover knees, sleeves to the elbow, not too low-cut
9. girls are a range of Frumkeit.
btw, this info is from app. 3 yrs ago, but it doesn’t sound like most of these facts would have changed. The one thing that can change in a seminary from year to year is the type of girls who go, so it might be kidai to get more recent info on that if possible.
Health – uh… that wasn’t what I was impressed by.
LB- join the club. I suffer from withdrawal everyday from around 10:00 or 12:00 pm until 7:00 am EST. Last night the moderators took a really long break – I think they stopped at around 10:00 pm. Maybe they should find a moderator in EY to do the night shift.
Regarding Gedolim and zionism, my IMPRESSION is that there is no one alive today who can be considered a Gadol who is zionistic. By Gadol, I am referring to someone on par with Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlita, and Rav Shteinman shlita. I am not referring to someone on par with Rav Avigdor Miller zatsal (Talmid Chacham, Tzaddik and Adam Gadol but not considered to be one of the Gedolei Hador outside of the CR, l’aniyas dati).
There definitely are people who are Talmidei Chachamim and Tzadikim who are zionistic (at least according to some meanings of the word), but I am under the IMPRESSION that there is no one CURRENTLY ALIVE who is considered a Gadol who is a zionist. I may be wrong, but that is my distinct impression. Of course, if you consider people on the level of Rav Avigdor Miller to be zionist, you will have a different opinion. But I really do not think that is the correct definition of a Gadol Hador, as far as I understand the term.
IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY FOLLOW FROM THAT THAT BEING A ZIONIST IS A PROBLEM, but it is an important point. Again, I am not giving an opinion – I am just stating what I THINK are the facts.
At the same time, I don’t believe that the Gedolim today have come out and said that it is assur for anyone to be a zionist, which is another important point, and part of the reason that I wouldn’t have started this topic of conversation in the first place. Apparently, being a zionist (in and of itself, although there can be many meanings/aspects to the concept) is not “yaihareig v’aal yaavor” and does not disqualify someone from being a Frum Yarei Shamayim and a ben Torah etc, even though it is POSSIBLE that this aspect of their hashkafa may be wrong. Certainly, if all that being zionistic means is that someone celebrates Yom haAtzmaut (with or w/o music, & with or w/o Hallel), who cares?
On the other hand, there MAY be some things that are often associated with zionism that may actually be assur according to all Gedolim even the Gedolim from the tzioni world (meaning Rav Kook). This is where Merkaz HaRav is distinct from a large part of the dati-leumi world.
There are two things in particular that I have in mind:
1. Sheurut leumi – as far as I know, at the time when it was originally established, all the Gedolim and the leaders of the Mizrachi world said that it was “yaihareig v’al yaavor” and yet today, most of the dati-leumi (as far as I know) aside from at least a segment of Merkaz haRav considers it okay to do sheurut leumi and encourages girls to do so.
As far as I know, there is no backing from Gedolim to do this.
2. From what I know, all Gedolim said that boys should avoid going to the army IF POSSIBLE, and certainly, if they are learning. I was told that Rav Kook said that boys should not go to the army. I think that is why in Merkaz HaRav, the boys do not go to the army. I may be wrong about that, and if someone has proof to the contrary, I would be interested in hearing it. (I am not talking about a case in which someone has no choice because he is planning on working, so legally, he has to go to the army – I am talking about as a l’chatchila). My impression is that the Hesder system was set up because boys were going to the regular army and not as a l’chatchila (btw, if it were l’chatchila, they should be doing 3 years like everyone else).
What is my point? I am not chas v’shalom trying to find bad things to say about other Yidden. My point is that there are many different definitions of the word “tzioni”/zionist, and it definitely SEEMS to me that some of those definitions (for example, if one considers army service to be a chiyuv l’chatchila or considers sheurut leumi to be a Mitzvah) may not have backing from any Gedolim. I may be wrong, and in any case, I am certainly not critical of those Jews who do sincerely believe that they are following Daas Torah. I am simply pointing out that it is POSSIBLE that there is no Daas Torah saying those things (but again, I could be wrong).
I just want to make it clear, (again) that I am not claiming to know definitively what Daas Torah is on the subject of zionism. I am simply stating the facts the way I understand them. I would not have brought up the topic, and certainly not on a seminary thread, but I felt that I should respond to Writer-Soul’s post.